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I'm a bit lost on feeding

Piper E

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I have a 3 month blue Quaker, Kui, that was hand fed and weaned before I got her. I've had her 2 1/2 weeks. The breeder sent me home with pellets (zupreem) and seeds (for small hookbill containing sunflower seeds and nuts millet etc.) She told me to give her 2 tbls of each every day. I know that she needs fresh foods and would love to make her a mash or chop but so confused! Does she need the seed mixture into adulthood? How do you all feed your birds? Pellets and fresh food 50% 50%? Fresh food daily or 3 times a week? As you can see I'm lost LOL! Any help will be so appreciated!
 

Hjarta5

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Hmm, I dont have any experience with baby birds - Quaker or otherwise - so I dont know how dietary needs on different from that of an adult :(

I have an adult Quaker and she loves fresh chop -- I dont know if thats how she was raised before I found her or somehow I was just lucky to not have a picky eater :) I do not give her any sunflower seeds, but she does enjoy the seeds in her Nutriberries and I will mix in chia or hemp seeds in her chop. I give her fresh veggies every day (with a smaller portion of fruits) and keep an extra bowl available in the cage for dry food at all times. The dry bowl will have 1 part assorted chopped dried fruits and nuts, 1 part dried veggies and herbs, and 3 parts pellets and/or Harrison's mash. But since I have had her, she mostly enjoys the fresh veggie chop (mixed with some cooked bird-safe beans) and have it throughout the day.

On the weekends, I also cook up some Higgins Worldly Cuisine (African Sunset) for my birds; I do let it cool to room temps first before feeding.

@Mizzely Did you receive Jingo as a baby? Also @SandraK @CrazyBirdChick Do you have any experience?
 
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Piper E

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Thank you @Hjarta5 ! I didn’t even know that seed feeding was frowned upon and could make them sick with fatty liver. I just made her some chopped cauliflower, broccoli, carrots and strawberries and she’s interested in it!! I need to look for Harrison’s mash.
 

Hjarta5

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No problem :) Before I joined AA, I spent a ton of time Googling questions about what foods were safe for my Quaker to eat, what toy was ok, etc, and found that many of the results were from discussions in this forum. And since I joined last year, I have learned a lot and things are still evolving for me, too. In fact, I still use the search box a ton on this site :marlenesmile:
 

painesgrey

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Nutrition isn't really a one-size-fits-all science, so there's a lot of trial and error trying to find what's nutritious and what your bird will eat. Fortunately for you, it's usually easier to get younger birds to try new foods.

My Quaker was an adolescent/adult when I got him, and the people I got him from recommended the Higgins Safflower Gold diet. :confused: I knew better than to keep him on a primarily seed diet, so I transitioned him to Roudybush, which he took to readily.

Right now his diet consists of 60-70% pelleted diet of Roudybush and Zupreem Natural (and sometimes a third pellet brand - whatever is on sale - for variety), with each bird getting ~2 tbsp a day, give or take. The remaining 30-40% consists of fresh foods, of which less than 10% are seed (sprouted or otherwise) and fruits. I was offering fresh foods daily but noticed that the majority of it was going to waste, so now I offer it every other day.

 

Piper E

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@Hjarta5 & @painesgrey good to know I’m not alone!! I am going to slowly cut out her seeds and go to pellets and fresh. I looked on Amazon and see Higgins and Volcrum (so) mash and that looks good, maybe once a week or so :cantwait:
 

Mizzely

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I do about 50% pellets, 40% chop (veggies and grains), and 10% seed/nuts right now for my quaker, Jingo. He is picky about his pellets but will eat Mazuri, Zupreem natural, and Hagen Tropican

Here is my chop recipe/guide: Small Parrot Toys by Lil Monsters Bird Toys

Here is an article about Vitamin D3 and why pellets are good for it Small Parrot Toys by Lil Monsters Bird Toys

And a list comparing popular pellets in the US. I try to stay away from pellets that are dyed and sweetened personally Small Parrot Toys by Lil Monsters Bird Toys
 

clawnz

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I will take the bashing for this.
But what the heck! I care for my birds and make the effort to feed them real foods.

Anybody who tells you seed is bad is an idiot.
Sure there are loads of reasons, seed has been blamed for things.
But mostly due to the lack of quality and variety. And adulterated.
Believe me a bird can still get Fatty Liver issues on a pellet diet.
Due to the issues of feeding processed foods every day. They do not need.

Lets see! A seed eating bird should have a seed based diet.
A fruit eater needs a fruit and veg diet, that can include some seed.
And if you can find a pellet eating bird in the wild then go for it.
Even Eclectus do eat seed in the wild.
And most likely a pellet pusher.
fresh food diets are far superior to processed ground up stuff no bird would eat in the wild.
For honest real help join Jason Crean on facebook.
Learn to sprout. They are a live food.
Sprouting Easy or Complicated? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
 

clawnz

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Pellets and Bird Nutrition
Clive Willgoss·Sunday, February 28, 2016
Please Note: Copyright 2002-2011, All Rights Reserved and may not be reprinted without express written permission.

It is reprinted here with express consent from Dr Jeannie Thomason.
It maybe a long read, but is well worth your time. And puts into prospective Why Pellets are so suspect. And less than an ideal food.

Commercial Bird Pellets Good Nutrition??
By Dr Jeannie Thomason

Finally, I have noticed an ever slowly but increasing amount of skepticism among my bird owning friends towards the many commercial bird foods available these days. Many of the manufactures of these pre-packaged and processed foods claim that their diets duplicate nature or even boast that they are an improvement over nature itself. PLEASE!!!
Is it really realistic to think that we finite humans could duplicate nature in its wholeness and complexity? Improve upon nature? Are they serious? How in the world could a dry, processed, fabricated diet ever match or exceed the outstanding quality that can be found in foods God produces in a natural foods diet?
With all the pre-packaged, prepared food choices now on the market, many bird owners have become somewhat dazed about the dos and don't s of good avian nutrition. From the comments and emails I get, it is clear to see that confusion and frustration abound! While most feed products are touted to be "balanced" or "complete". (just like processed dog and cat food) the manufactures all say that their products are superior in quality. But, are they really?
For some reason, people think that just because a food product is advertised in a magazine or is on your favorite store's shelf that it is safe and healthy to feed your feathered companions. Unfortunately, this is far from the truth. If you haven't already done so, it is time you take a closer look at these feed product labels and make sure you can define each ingredient for the future welfare and love of your birds. I will warn you though; you may be very surprised and not very happy with what you find.
The way in which you feed your birds is of course a very personal choice. However, this choice should be based on information gathered from many sources and some research on your part. I know that you have heard from your bird's Breeder, your veterinarian and even your well meaning friends, as well as advertisements in avian publications that will all influence your decision. Just remember though, while you may receive advice on feeding from well-meaning individuals, you need to do your homework and research this advice before putting it into action.
Many bird owners have decided recently that they do not want to feed their birds a dry, fabricated diet (pellets), as it does not meet their standards as a quality or a "natural" diet. Some bird owners have never fed a fabricated/processed diet to their birds, but have always fed a whole foods diet that is fresh and varied in content. This natural diet usually consists of fresh sprouts and organically grown foods when they are available. Certified organically grown produce is usually your best option and can supply your bird(s) with the top quality nutrition they deserve. Why would anyone want it any other way?
Along with the invention of the "scientifically" formulated feeds ("meals in a bag") so in demand these days, more and more bird owners, with good intentions, are relying on pellets and manufactured hand-feeding formulas. They have come to believe these to be the proper source of all nutrients and are so convenient. Sure, the manufacturers promote their products in a very convincing manner with the "nutritionally complete" written in bold print on the label and after all, a pellet diet is a neat, convenient meal in a bag, sure to stay fresh for months while waiting for you to purchase it off the pet store or veterinary office shelf. And of course, they claim that this bag consists of wonderful ingredients that could not be found anywhere else on earth and includes everything your birds will ever require for health and a long life. Come on people! Really! Some of these meals in a bag are also very pretty in color, they are sure to brighten up any birdcage with their presence, even if they don't brighten your bird's appetites. Sheesh!
Have you ever stopped to wonder what on earth made some of these pellets so colorful? Could it be fresh fruit and vegetable juices? Sadly,the answer is: not usually. It is almost always the chemical dyes so commonly used in these products to make them so eye appealing. Was that the color No. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 40, or all of the above? Shouldn't you also be questioning what magic trick was used to keep these foods fresh on the shelves for who knows how long?
Then finally, don't forget that they have to make sure those little shapes in the bag taste good. Is artificial flavoring used as well? Or perhaps just a scoop or two of sugar is added to each "healthy" batch of feed. Yes, that will make the product complete! almost... whoops, now don't forget to add all those synthetic nutrients and vitamins since any true nutrition that may have been in the ingredients to start with have all been destroyed and cooked away. "Just a scoopful of pellets a day keeps the doctor away". Again, PLEASE! This is certainly not what I would put my faith in for a healthy avian species appropriate diet.
There are surely, many bird enthusiasts that use commercial diets and therefore, the manufacturing of such "food" is BIG business. But does their "guaranteed adequate nutritional balance" automatically come with the convenient pellet form? How many wild parrots you have heard of or seen on a T.V.show; fly down to their local pet shop and buy pretty colored pellets for the week?
There are so many nutrients, live enzymes and natural medicinal components that have been discovered in fresh foods, so many more that are currently being investigated and some that we aren't even aware of yet. So to call a commercial feed complete and even close to nature is a huge exaggeration to say the least!
Here are just some of the risks involved in feeding your birds some of the commercial bird feeds available.
It is nearly impossible to provide your birds a healthy diet out of a bag, jar or canister. Extruded and heat-treated diets leave much to be desired. Most all of these feed products undergo extreme high heat in order to kill any bacteria that may be lurking in the ingredients used. The heat-treatment destroys the naturally-occurring enzymes contained in the original food, which had they remained would have assisted in the digestion of those foods. Food enzymes are an important factor in your bird's diet and they come from fresh raw, uncooked foods.
Feeding a dry, fabricated, pellet diet is kind of like feeding a crushed vitamin and mineral supplement without the fresh foods required for digesting and assimilating it. Eating a food with No enzymes will lead to impaired digestion and in turn lead to a weakened immune system and disease. Actually, the vitamins they add to pelleted diets are synthetic in the first place so are never going to be as healthy or as easily assimilated as the vitamins and minerals obtained from fresh food.
Commercial bird food manufactures would like you to believe that our birds' bodies can't tell the difference between synthetic nutrients and nutrients found naturally occurring in whole, real food. The reasoning goes something like this - "Synthetic vitamins are manufactured to produce the same chemicals that a vitamin is made of, so our birds' bodies can't tell the difference." Hurray for technology! We've outdone Mother Nature. I have even heard – "Don't feed too many fresh foods like fruits and vegetables to your birds, it is too difficult to make sure you feeding a balanced diet. Pelleted Feed is much more healthy and perfectly balanced." With my own busy schedule, believe me, I wish this were true. But it isn't. Again, we have been deceived.
Please be aware that one of the biggest myths today concerning food is that we can make food healthy by enriching or fortifying it with synthetic vitamins, minerals, amino acids and so forth after the natural nutrients have been destroyed by the heat/high temperatures of processing. Synthetic nutrients are not the same as the nutrients nature produces and, in many cases, are actually useless to our birds' bodies.
Beyond proper utilization, many trace minerals are toxic, if our birds try to eat them in inorganic form. Zinc can be toxic as an inorganic chemical, such as from zinc-coated toy parts, galvanized hardware cloth, or supplemental zinc (i.e., zinc oxide), but is a necessary and very important nutrient in food. Elemental copper is considered a heavy metal; if a bird absorbs too much, it can be poisoned. Iodine can be poisonous in its elemental form, but is essential in food. I personally find it is quite remarkable how nature converts something that's toxic to our birds in the inorganic form to a safe organic form - nutrients in food. Your bird can never be harmed from the trace minerals in live food because nature balances the elements out and gives them to our birds in the form their bodies can safely use.

Additives and Preservatives
Remember,that in order to maintain a shelf-life, the majority of these diets contain potentially toxic chemical preservatives, i.e., BHT, BHA, and Ethoxyquin. BHT and BHA are used in rubber and petroleum products. Ethoxyquin is used as a pesticide for fruit. These synthetic antioxidants are used in human and animal foods to preserve their fat content. They help break the chain of "free radicals" and prevent microbiological spoilage and rancidity.

Oh The Lies!
This one really cracked me up, one of the major brands BRAGS the following: "Extrusion cooking enhances carbohydrate bioavailability. More digestible than cold-pressed pelleted diets or seed mixtures, and offer maximum digestibility and nutrient absorption". This is totally nuts folks! Birds were not designed to eat cooked foods, ever seen a parrot roasting grain or frying a bug up in a pad with some flowers? Cooking grains may enhance carbohydrate bioavailablity for a human but not for a bird!
Have you looked at the ingredients used to make the pellets? Listed below are the ingredients of the most popular pellets on the market today. While you read through the ingredients, remember, these are not only cooked ingredients but ask yourself if these are things a wild parrot would seek out and eat in the jungle:
*Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Rice, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, Psyllium, *Ground Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Spirulina, Montmorillonite Clay, Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite. *CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT
Ground corn, soybean meal, cracked wheat, wheat germ meal, vegetable oil, sucrose, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, iodized salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, ascorbic acid, natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, citric acid, natural and artificial colors, artificial flavors, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, vitamin A, vitamin E, vitamin D3, vitamin K, vitamin B12, thiamine, niacin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, rib
Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Peanut Meal, Soy Oil,Soy Meal, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Yucca schidigen Extract,Salt, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide (carrier for liquid antioxidants), Sodium Selenite (on Calcium Carbonate), Niacin, Alpha-Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vit. A Acetate, Thiamine, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vit K), Cyanocobalamin (VitB12), Vit D3 Sup. Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Propionic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Tartaric Acid, and natural apple flavoring.
Now looking at these ingredients, please consider these questions...
"Do YOU know if the feed package ingredients you are serving your birds lists chemicals?" (If not, it is time to read the label.)
"Do you know whether or not chemical preservatives or pesticides/herbicides were added to the ingredients BEFORE the manufacturer purchased them and created the final feed product?" (If the manufacturer themselves didn't add the chemicals to the feed then they do not have to list them on the label.)
Were you aware that sugar is often added for palatability in the form of sucrose or corn syrup and artificial coloring to please YOUR eye? Did you realize that artificial colors are derived from coal tar dyes or petroleum. Both refined sugar and chemical dyes can cause short-term as well as long-term damage, by weakening your bird's immune systems and compromising their complete line of defense. For example, over the short-term, sugar can cause illnesses, such as yeast (Candida) infections and long term has the potential to cause other health threatening diseases.
Since most of the ingredients in bird foods are actually foreign to them in the wild or even toxic to the body, your bird's body attempts to expel them through the process of detoxification and elimination in the liver and kidneys. Over the long-term these non-nutritive ingredients and synthetic as well as chemical additives can cause enlargement of vital organs, hormonal dysfunction, immune system disorders and degenerative diseases, thus a shorter life-span.
The majority of domestically reared parrots today have been weaned onto a pelleted feed and we have come to think that these dry fabricated diets are a natural food for them. Sadly, this is a big deception. These diets consist of a few fractionated grains and seeds, followed by a very long list of synthetic enrichment nutrients which enables these diets to provide the minimum levels of nutrients to maintain health for some birds.
Why take chances to begin with when much safer and more natural foods are readily available. The important thing to do, is to look for a natural alternative rather than figure out what the acceptable chemical level might be. Instead, ask yourself if it something your parrot would find and eat in the wild.
This whole dilemma over bird diets began several years ago when an exclusively dry seed diet was compared to pellets. Why not compare a whole foods diet consisting of fresh fruits, sprouts, flowers and insects - to dry seeds and/or pellets? Certainly the fresh whole foods diet is far superior!
After all is said and done, you, the bird owner must form your own opinion about what is best to feed your birds and have confidence in the choice you decide to feed.
I personally feel that the best diet in the world for birds is one that closest emulates their natural diet in the wild; I mean, doesn't it just make sense that these are the foods that God created for our birds to be biologically correct?. A natural home-prepared diet is really not difficult to do correctly and efficiently, and the health rewards for the birds are both great and obvious.
To achieve the best long-term health results, fresh natural foods should make up the majority of your bird's diet. For those who feel they must feed a commercial diet, I personally do not recommend that it make up any more than 5% of any bird's diet total diet and of course, find one that is freeze dried or dehydrated vs. extruded or cooked at all. Make sure it has whole food ingredients, not just cooked cereal!
Let's get back to nature and offer the fresh, live foods that our parrots were intended to thrive on. By doing this, you can keep your parrot's immune systems strong and its body resistant to disease and infection. The basic truths of nutrition are simple, and easy to apply once the understanding is gained. A natural fresh diet has no nutritional competition and is part of what only nature can provide us. After all, God's gifts of nature are the ultimate gifts we can offer our birds.
Copyright 2003 -2011 This article is the sole property of Dr Jeannie Thomason. It cannot be reproduced in any form whatsoever without the expressed written consent of the author.
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clawnz

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And does any of the fabricated pellets contain this.
menadione?
it is in most pellets and is a BANNED substance in human foods. Yet still used in a huge number of pellets.
Yes I am totally biased to feeding any manufactured foods.
We are starting to wake up to the damage they are doing to humans, yet willing to feed these to those tiny little bodies?
It makes no sense.
All birds do very well on a good variety of fresh foods, and NO supplements.
I have a good number of years now, seeing how well they do once pellets are removed from their diets.
My siggy of Sophie is testament to that.
And I have any number of other birds to show before and after.
What i love is that all birds take readily to fresh sprouts. Unlike trying to force them on to dry ground up biscuits.
 

Piper E

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@clawnz thank you for your input! It does make sense that fresh food would be better than any pellet that is processed. A lot of food for thought (pun intended) and I have have much to learn! I am very interested in sprouting and will continue to look into it.
 

Piper E

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@Mizzely i really appreciate the links. Before I got Kui my Quaker I have had my cockatiel Birdie for 21 years. He has been healthy and happy and honestly only ever had a seed diet. When I started researching I felt horrible that that’s all he has had, I had no idea that dietwas such a controversial issue. The more I read the more confused I became! I really appreciate your input.

:feedpigeons:
 

Mizzely

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There is no one size fits all with birds, for sure. I will say that although clawz is anti-pellet and says birds ALWAYS do better without pellets, that is simply not true.

I tried to do fresh food and seed only for Jingo because he is picky with pellets, and he started to pluck his stomach, and he got some stress bars on some of his newly grown feathers. So for MY bird, pellets are an important PART of the diet. Pellets should NOT be the sole diet, just like seeds shouldn't be. And no, not all birds eat sprouts. I have had 4 birds, and only 2 liked them.

It is hard to replicate a diet that is like their wild counterpart because they eat foods that aren't available for purchase usually. They eat things that are toxic, unripe fruits, etc. They eat what is available and that doesn't necessarily translate to best. Animals routinely live longer in captivity than in the wild, and diet is one of those reasons.
 

SandraK

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When Kiwi came home Fred cuoldn't even tell me how old she was (at least enough to eat by herself) but she loved bananas. We'd give he a banana with a portion of the peel peeled back and she'd go to town on it. She was really funny because she liked the banana strings and it was like watching a Quaker eat spaghetti. Plus if you're little one likes soft foods bananas are easy to mash.
 

Les charlson

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Before going online I had parrots. I fed them what I saw them eat in the wild. Has anyone seen a drunk Lorikeet laying on its back from eating overripe native fruit. It happens. This meant fresh , raw vegs and fruit with many weeds, complete with roots and seeds. They ate clay and charcoal to for medicinal reasons and I give them a bowl which they sometime eat. So I give vegs and cooked sweet potato/carrot and raw pumpkin with whatever else is in season. At night they have soaked parrot seed and a couple of nuts. Our wild King parrots come down and eat holes in out tomates looking for seeds too. During the season I collect green seeds to feed during the day with thistle etc which one can buy online and freeze them for winter. I sprout sunflower seeds when they moult. I see them soaking seeds/nuts in puddles and coming back later. I do add a few pellets just to make sure they are getting what they need but they only eat a few. Pellets were made to stop the poor birds getting only dried seed and a lettuce leaf. Its not a whole food. They also get nuts to crack and bits of bark/wood to chew. Haven't lost a bird yet.
 

Les charlson

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Oh, feather barring can be due to lack of sunlight as well as bad diet. I have a couple here who were kept indoors and after moulting it was gone.
 

Mizzely

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Oh, feather barring can be due to lack of sunlight as well as bad diet. I have a couple here who were kept indoors and after moulting it was gone.

Correct, but I'm I'm an area that I can't take birds outside for at least 6 months of the year due to sub zero temperatures. Because the pellets I feed have D3, that helps when they can't go outside.
 

Piper E

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:cool4::cool4::qpb:
There is no one size fits all with birds, for sure. I will say that although clawz is anti-pellet and says birds ALWAYS do better without pellets, that is simply not true.

I tried to do fresh food and seed only for Jingo because he is picky with pellets, and he started to pluck his stomach, and he got some stress bars on some of his newly grown feathers. So for MY bird, pellets are an important PART of the diet. Pellets should NOT be the sole diet, just like seeds shouldn't be. And no, not all birds eat sprouts. I have had 4 birds, and only 2 liked them.

It is hard to replicate a diet that is like their wild counterpart because they eat foods that aren't available for purchase usually. They eat things that are toxic, unripe fruits, etc. They eat what is available and that doesn't necessarily translate to best. Animals routinely live longer in captivity than in the wild, and diet is one of those reasons.
I agree with your thoughts. I am going to do what I feel is right for me and for my bird specifically. I am going to make a daily chop of fresh foods, have pellets available with some seed as well and a cooked mash on the weekends. I will see what Kui likes but at least I am providing an all round diet with things I feel are important. I am going to try sprouting as it appeals to me and see if Kui is interested! I am grateful for all the input and don't feel as lost now! I am loving this forum and will continue to participate :hug8::fairy2::fairy::qpb: :tieln: :cool4:
 

Piper E

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Before going online I had parrots. I fed them what I saw them eat in the wild. Has anyone seen a drunk Lorikeet laying on its back from eating overripe native fruit. It happens. This meant fresh , raw vegs and fruit with many weeds, complete with roots and seeds. They ate clay and charcoal to for medicinal reasons and I give them a bowl which they sometime eat. So I give vegs and cooked sweet potato/carrot and raw pumpkin with whatever else is in season. At night they have soaked parrot seed and a couple of nuts. Our wild King parrots come down and eat holes in out tomates looking for seeds too. During the season I collect green seeds to feed during the day with thistle etc which one can buy online and freeze them for winter. I sprout sunflower seeds when they moult. I see them soaking seeds/nuts in puddles and coming back later. I do add a few pellets just to make sure they are getting what they need but they only eat a few. Pellets were made to stop the poor birds getting only dried seed and a lettuce leaf. Its not a whole food. They also get nuts to crack and bits of bark/wood to chew. Haven't lost a bird yet.
I love what you wrote! Yes we can’t give our birds exactly what they eat in the wild but do our best with what we can find. Love that you try your best to emulate their wild diet by observation :kiss2::thanks:
 
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