I think Phoenix might be taking it too far

[Britnicorn]

So we all know how Phoenix gets when Raijū comes out of the cage to play, he gets extremely hyped and will flick/pull Raijū’s beak and do a gentle kicking

Well that kicking as turned to grabbing, and he ends up pushing Raijū downward while Phoenix towers over him (while singing bacon pancake or feeding him )
Raijū gets very defensive when he does it, beak opened and his little “barking” thing, but very rarely does he do anything else about it. He will be almost falling off the perch theyre on, Phoenix holding Raijū by the neck with his foot, and he won’t do anything. When Raijū starts getting pushed downward that’s when I push them away from each other

I really want to let them sort it out themselves but I’m scared that Raijū is gonna let Phoenix take it too far, or perhaps Phoenix will end up aggressive over it... or just something will go wrong that I could have avoided.

I’m almost certain Phoenix isn’t meaning to grab Raijū in an aggressive way. Phoenix will grab my chin while he’s flicking and pulling my nose ring, its just what he does. Raijū’s just so small and easily scared


I have seen Raijū snap at Phoenix, just like a quick “peck” or nip and Phoenix will fly right off and stop. But when Phoenix has ahold of Raijū I can see Raijū wanting to get Phoenix off of him but he can’t.
I also want to make sure it’s clear that Phoenix isn’t pinning Raijū down. Phoenix just holds onto whatever he can grab on Raijū, and Raijū ends up slipping downward since he’s trying to back away from Phoenix so it ends up with Phoenix towering over him.

I’ve also seen Raijū chase Phoenix after grabbing him, almost like Raijū didn’t want him to stop. So maybe he likes the affection? I’m not sure.

Also Phoenix has learned pulling and grabbing feathers is not okay I’m pretty sure. I haven’t seen him even try to grab Raijū’s feathers in over a week or two, so progress is being made with him... he’s just so excitable

I really need advice lol

 

[Britnicorn]

This behavior also only happens when Raijū comes out of the cage, and it doesn’t happen every time. Phoenix gets so excited when Raijū comes out to play.

It never happens inside the cage

 

[Kassiani]

Is it possible to film them interacting? It might be helpful for the more experienced members to see the behavior. I don't think I can be helpful. My boys bump beaks and Jelly grabs Juju's beak as I've seen your Phoenix do to Raiju. Occasionally, when one is very, very hyped up, he will kick the other in the chest. No injuries have ever resulted from this, and neither of them have lost their balance and fallen, either. It seems hopeful to me that they get along fine most of the time and are happy together.

 

[Elysian]

Wow, sorry, I guess my boys are angels..
I have never seen them grab or kick!

When they were babies I worried they were fighting when they bickered back and forth with their beaks, and once in awhile Citrine would bug Cypress off a favored perch by poking the tip of his tail. But looking back now (and comparing to other people's worries) they were so clearly just being budgies..

 

[FeatheredM]

I don't think that's playing, maybe one bird thinks outside the cage is his territory, maybe hormones are kicking in? So no bird gets hurt maybe you should pull them out at different times

 

[Britnicorn]

Is it possible to film them interacting? It might be helpful for the more experienced members to see the behavior. I don't think I can be helpful. My boys bump beaks and Jelly grabs Juju's beak as I've seen your Phoenix do to Raiju. Occasionally, when one is very, very hyped up, he will kick the other in the chest. No injuries have ever resulted from this, and neither of them have lost their balance and fallen, either. It seems hopeful to me that they get along fine most of the time and are happy together.

I’ve been trying to film it but Phoenix stops to start attacking my phone when it happens. Plus it randomly gets to the point of Phoenix grabbing Raijū

 

[Britnicorn]

I don't think that's playing, maybe one bird thinks outside the cage is his territory, maybe hormones are kicking in? So no bird gets hurt maybe you should pull them out at different times

I’ve seen Phoenix get territorial and this isn’t it. He’s honestly excited and doesn’t know how to control himself, Raijū is the first bird he’s ever seen and since Raijū is insecure (he can’t fly) Raijū doesn’t put Phoenix in his place as much as he should

Phoenix will grab Raijū like that and be feeding him... he’s very happy to see Raijū lol he’s so confusing.

Also Raijū will not come out unless Phoenix is out, Raijū doesn’t like me until he needs me to get to Phoenix

 

[Britnicorn]

Also when I say kicking it sounds terrible, but it’s super gentle lol he’s basically tapping Raijū with his foot trying to get Raijū’s attention. I’ve seen Raijū kick Phoenix when Raijū was hyped too

 

[FeatheredM]

Try teaching your bird to spin, so that every time your bird starts getting to excited you just give the command

 

[Britnicorn]

Try teaching your bird to spin, so that every time your bird starts getting to excited you just give the command

That’d be so cute I’ll do that

 

[FeatheredM]

Ooooooooh! That makes sense now, try reading there body language, when you their feathers tight to their body that means they're scared,

 

[Sodapop&Co.]

When my boys are feeling lovey and are feeding each other one will always tower over the other one who will take a semi-crouching baby beak-open stance waiting to be fed. They will peck at each other too. It can look defensive but they go back and forth in who takes which role in this ritual. It's hard to say without seeing it but it doesn't necessarily sound worrisome to me. My boys have "pushed" each other off perches the way you describe but since they're flighted it's not a problem (or it's possible that the lower one lets go on purpose). Just part of their game. I suppose that would be your only worry - the fact that Raiju isn't flighted. But since he knows he can't depend on his wings I wouldn't expect him to "walk off" the perch. It's hard to say. But Raiju is starting to fly better right? He'd probably be able to lift off if he did fall off the perch enough to keep from crashing hard.
At the end of the day I'm pretty sure they're always gonna be like this more or less - Phoenix is very highenergy and excitable and loves Raiju very much; Raiju is the more submissive in the pair and I bet is always going to worship Phoenix and put up with everything. Just their personalities. My boys are similar. Sometimes it can look rough but I've never seen actual aggression between them. It's just how budgies interact.

 

[Britnicorn]

When my boys are feeling lovey and are feeding each other one will always tower over the other one who will take a semi-crouching baby beak-open stance waiting to be fed. They will peck at each other too. It can look defensive but they go back and forth in who takes which role in this ritual. It's hard to say without seeing it but it doesn't necessarily sound worrisome to me. My boys have "pushed" each other off perches the way you describe but since they're flighted it's not a problem (or it's possible that the lower one lets go on purpose). Just part of their game. I suppose that would be your only worry - the fact that Raiju isn't flighted. But since he knows he can't depend on his wings I wouldn't expect him to "walk off" the perch. It's hard to say. But Raiju is starting to fly better right? He'd probably be able to lift off if he did fall off the perch enough to keep from crashing hard.
At the end of the day I'm pretty sure they're always gonna be like this more or less - Phoenix is very highenergy and excitable and loves Raiju very much; Raiju is the more submissive in the pair and I bet is always going to worship Phoenix and put up with everything. Just their personalities. My boys are similar. Sometimes it can look rough but I've never seen actual aggression between them. It's just how budgies interact.

Thank you! I think Raijū might like it even though he looks defensive when it’s happening, because every time I shoo Phoenix away Raijū goes running after him I’ll try to get a video of it next time

 

[Britnicorn]

I was able to get a small video, Phoenix only grabbed him for a bit and I ended up taking Phoenix away as soon as it happened because I've never heard Raiju squawk like that... Raiju definitely didn't like it this time lol
After the video they were sitting on that playset peacefully so maybe Phoenix realized Raiju isn't in the mood right now

 

[Kassiani]

Based on my two boys, I don't see anything concerning. Phoenix is definitely high energy, but Raiju seems to be holding his own. I think (grain of salt time) that Phoenix is practicing his, well, mounting behaviors by placing his foot on Raiju's back. This is all just based on my observations with my own boys.

@Destiny @Ripshod @Lady Jane

 

[FeatheredM]

My birds do that sometimes, but not so intence, I think that they are just getting to know each other but still need some personal time before always are together

 

[Kassiani]

Serious budgie fighting does happen. These are wild budgies, and you will see some serious fighting at about one minute and 30 seconds into this clip. No one gets seriously injured, so don't worry!

 

[Britnicorn]

Is mounting normal in budgies? Even with two boys?

 

[Lady Jane]

I continue to think when one bird can fly and the other can not it makes the flier the dominate bird. R cannot fly away from P. Neither bird has been hurt thank goodness. When they are playing with eachother continue supervising from afar. Have you thought of setting up a camera where they cant see, one that is not a phone? How long are they out together and how often?

 

[Lady Jane]

A couple things come to mind. Could be P got used to being very close to you and is very jealous of R. Do you give one more attention than the other?

Also is their play area on neutral territory? Establish a play area in neutral territory even if you must invest in a new play stand away from both cages. Its worth a try!