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I need help with behavior and biting problems, is this normal? What am I doing wrong?

Xefalen

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Hi everyone,
I really need some advice. I adopted these two magnificient birds last Sunday.
20201116_104412.jpg


About the birds:
Their previous owner had them for more or less one year. He first adopted the white-headed Lovebird (which he named Snowball). Snowball is a one year old hand raised Lovebird. He is a male (DNA-tested).
Having less and less time to spend with him, he decided to take him a companion, the black-headed lovebird he named Coco. The sex of this lovebird is unidentified, although I think it probably be a female. Coco, is a bit younger than Snowball, probably hatched in the beginning of this year, or maybe he is a bit over 1 year, but I don't really know his age.
I have to say that both are already pretty used to humans, when they flew in their owners room, they came on my head and my shoulders.

When I did go adopt them, I saw them fly in the owner's house, and I saw the first indication which made me think that Snowball was the male, because he actually regurgitated food for Coco (who accepted the food). And apparently Snowball tried his luck with mating one time but it didn't worked / he probably got rejected.

So, I went home, everything was fine. The birds were a bit excited and a bit loud once in their new cage (which is totally fine and normal). During the day, I sometimes spoke to them, put my hand in the cage so they got used to it. They actually already accepted food I gave them through the cage grid and also food directly rom my hand (when I put my hand in the cage).

Day 2, I already tried to make them learn how to step up and it already worked with Snowballl. Coco actually nibbled my fingers more than stepping up... Both chewed my hand at first, Coco had a more bitey intention, but Snowball just "tested" to see if my hand was stable. It worked too well, Snowball after some step-ups decided to be confident enough to walk all the way up to my shoulder (which I would not have expected) and decided to fly in my room (which wasn't actually goin the plan). I totally panicked, my first reflex was to take tape, and put paper sheets all over the windows, because I didn't wanted him to fly into them! He actually was enjoying flying around XD. Coco of course followed. For one hour they flew in my room casually stopping on some of my furniture or my head/a friend's head which came durin the next hour (we planned doing chemistry, which wasn't easy with two birds flying around). After one hour, both birds decided to go back into the cage to rest and I closed the grid.
The same day in the evening, they had lost a bit of confidence for stepping up but they came eat food from my hand.
This was my mistake, I didn't expected Snowball to be this confident.

3rd day, monday. Confidence regained, first day with me having uni classes from home, every pause I go talk to them. Step up went well with Snowball. This day I trained them to be less scared of my finger. I'm doing it like this: slowly approaching my finger to their head, if they try to bite, I back off, come again, until I can touch their beak. If they don't try to bite me, or they try to bite but hold back, I give them a treat everytime they are doing well.

- I noticed something weird, I'm not sure what to think of. Since the first day, Coco and Snowball seem to show very few signs of partnership. I can see them cuddle together in the evening or when they take a nap around noon. Else, it's mostly Snowball who scares Coco away, snowball is bigger than Coco and seems to have a "dominant" male character (don't know if it's common in birds, it is in rats....). I didn't saw them regurgitate food. Also sometimes they "kiss"/cuddle/groom eachother (mostly coco grooming/kissing Snowball) and instead of continuing to kiss Snowball pecks Coco strongly enough to push her back/away from the perch she is on. She then goes to another perch and he follows her. This can go on for minutes, she screams a lot and seems to be really bothered, sometimes it seems that she can't find a safe place in the cage..... And I start to ask myself if the owner actually made a mistake by putting them together. The first day, only one perch was the "highest" perch, I quickly added another at the same height so Coco could go to this one if he annoys her, but if she does, he just follows her.

4th day, same thing. I bought sunflower seeds to change from millet (for rewards). Actually Coco, who was very bitey, let me touch her right under the beak (she was chewing on a seed). Snowball stepped up from a perch (I never tried to "follow" them with my hand since they seemed to be scared of my finger and let they come to my hand) but this time I tried and it worked. I was super happy in the evening, because, although they had tried to nibble, it actually went well. I actually had lab work, so I had to spend 8 hours is the laboratory, I had a babysitting in the evening and came back preytt late, but I spent my whole evening with both birds. One thing my mother noticed, was, that they were both pretty silent as I was not home, are they louder when I'm home to get my attention?

Yesterday. High hopes, high expectations.
It was a nightmare. Coco doesn't let me approach her and bites as in the beginning. Snowball, doesn't want to step up anymore and he starts to really BITE. Not nibble-bite like Coco who already had a "strong nibble" does, he really BITES. So hard that I have little red points on my hands from the incision of his beak (I'm pretty pain resistant and I don't directly take my hand away, since in the beginning they nibbled, but if I see that their intent is to bite, I take my hand away, close the cage and go away, to show that this is not the right behavior to get my attention/food). They did this the WHOLE day.

I'm at a point where I have no idea what to do. First for their btining behavior and second for their partnership. The more I observe them, the less I have the impression that they like eachother. Since the beginning, it's Coco who speaks 90% of the time, either she is sitting somewhere making noise (not specifically screaming just talking). Snowball says nothing, he only talks when he is excited/angry/happy. During the time I write, they already had 1 argument, and Coco started to scream pretty loud. It really seems like the arguments are pretty heavy, but maybe I'm not used to Lovebird arguments? At the beginning I thought that it was more of a "dominance" behavior since they are in a new environment, but it doesn't stop.

Is it maybe better to separate them? I have the owners old cage (who is really smaller). Do you have any advice. I'm pretty frustrated, because it worked so well and suddenly evrything seems to go wrong, and I'm really trying my best... Does anyone have any advice? Their arguzments and the behavior isn't normal, right? What am I doing wrong? If i do anything wrong, don't hesitate to tell me!!!

Best regards,
Xefalen

(Sorry if my english isn't always good, I'm not a native english speaker...)

Thanks for having the patience to read through all of this. I know, it's super long, but I try to give as much information as possible... I'm really clueless.
 
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ParrotNuts

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Hello Xefalen!!! :welcomegroup: . It's only been 5 days since you have had them, and you are already at such a position (5 days really is nothing in Parrot world ;)). Just keep training the same way you have been doing over the last few days, you may have just faxed some minor setbacks that won't impact your relation with them in the long run :). As for spreading them, maybe just watch them over the next week and if the behaviour continues you may have to (remember that they have just recently gone through a major life change).

@Zara @fluffypoptarts
 

ParrotNuts

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Just one more thing, you may want to remove that nest box (next boxes increase hormone levels which may be a reason for Snowball's behaviour) and also swap the plastic perches with ones made of natural wood (as plastic ones hurt birds' feet from being in the same position all the time) :)
 

Xefalen

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Also I want to add that this is the first "normal" time I have pet birds.

1 and a half year ago, I adopted a budgie who had lost all it's feathers. The owner had two budgies and this one got bullied by the other one so hard that he started to bleed. Since the owner didn't took good care of the little Budgie, I decided to take her home "quarantine" her and see what she had. Little did I knew that she had the PBFD Virus. I went to two vets. The first one had NO clue (I read about the virus on internet but wanted a vet to confirm me that it was the virus), he told me to give her fatty food, so she could get the strenght to regrow feathers. I tried to talk to him but he didn't respected what I said, it was pathetic, I paid the bill and left. I went to another vet (I think it was the one I already went to with my pet rats). She was super COOL, respectfull and kind she confirmed that this bird had PBFD.
I decided to keep her and take care of her as good as I could, giving her the longest and happiest life I could give her.
I tried to tame her, which was nearly impossible since her previous owner never tried to bond with her. I put my hand in the cage she always backed off. Since I'm taking singing lessons, and played the piano, whenever I was making music, she started singing too, which was terribly cute (imagine a naked bird unable to fly.... it was pityfull but I didn't wanted to let her down or give her back to her owner where the other bird would peck her to flesh...)

One evening in february ( I think it was the 13rd) I tried to give her food on my hand, as every day, and she decided to trust me, jumped onto my hand and ate food out of it. I was overly happy. The next day (it was valentine's day, that's also why I remember the date), I found her lying dead in her cage, she died from other infections.

Since then one of my two pet rats died, and I decided to give the other away to a person who had other rats, so he could join the pack (rats are social animals who can't stand loneliness), I couldn't take others, since I had developped an allergy to them.

I really liked the experience I had with the PBFD bird and I knew that I wanted to take birds. The only problem was that the PBFD virus is resistant, and although I cleaned my room (I have a friend who has budgies and I didn't wanted him to take the virus home if he comes at my place) and threw away the cage. I didn't wanted to risk bird's lives. I asked my vet how long I should wait, she told me that I shohuld wait about 1/1,5 years. 21 months have now passed and I decided to take these two little lovies and to take good care of them.
 

ParrotNuts

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Also I want to add that this is the first "normal" time I have pet birds.

1 and a half year ago, I adopted a budgie who had lost all it's feathers. The owner had two budgies and this one got bullied by the other one so hard that he started to bleed. Since the owner didn't took good care of the little Budgie, I decided to take her home "quarantine" her and see what she had. Little did I knew that she had the PBFD Virus. I went to two vets. The first one had NO clue (I read about the virus on internet but wanted a vet to confirm me that it was the virus), he told me to give her fatty food, so she could get the strenght to regrow feathers. I tried to talk to him but he didn't respected what I said, it was pathetic, I paid the bill and left. I went to another vet (I think it was the one I already went to with my pet rats). She was super COOL, respectfull and kind she confirmed that this bird had PBFD.
I decided to keep her and take care of her as good as I could, giving her the longest and happiest life I could give her.
I tried to tame her, which was nearly impossible since her previous owner never tried to bond with her. I put my hand in the cage she always backed off. Since I'm taking singing lessons, and played the piano, whenever I was making music, she started singing too, which was terribly cute (imagine a naked bird unable to fly.... it was pityfull but I didn't wanted to let her down or give her back to her owner where the other bird would peck her to flesh...)

One evening in february ( I think it was the 13rd) I tried to give her food on my hand, as every day, and she decided to trust me, jumped onto my hand and ate food out of it. I was overly happy. The next day (it was valentine's day, that's also why I remember the date), I found her lying dead in her cage, she died from other infections.

Since then one of my two pet rats died, and I decided to give the other away to a person who had other rats, so he could join the pack (rats are social animals who can't stand loneliness), I couldn't take others, since I had developped an allergy to them.

I really liked the experience I had with the PBFD bird and I knew that I wanted to take birds. The only problem was that the PBFD virus is resistant, and although I cleaned my room (I have a friend who has budgies and I didn't wanted him to take the virus home if he comes at my place) and threw away the cage. I didn't wanted to risk bird's lives. I asked my vet how long I should wait, she told me that I shohuld wait about 1/1,5 years. 21 months have now passed and I decided to take these two little lovies and to take good care of them.
How nice of you to help that budgie!!!! Sounds like she was wonderful even when she plucked.:heart::heart::heart: So sorry that she did not live long though :sadhug2: :sorrow: .
I really liked the experience I had with the PBFD bird and I knew that I wanted to take birds. The only problem was that the PBFD virus is resistant, and although I cleaned my room (I have a friend who has budgies and I didn't wanted him to take the virus home if he comes at my place) and threw away the cage. I didn't wanted to risk bird's lives. I asked my vet how long I should wait, she told me that I shohuld wait about 1/1,5 years. 21 months have now passed and I decided to take these two little lovies and to take good care of them.
That was very nice of you, to think for the well being of your current birds:D
OOOOH! I'm sooo happy, thanks for the advices and the responses!!! I'll do that right away!!!
You are welcome :). Here is a list of toxic and safe trees for birds. Also make sure to was the branch thoroughly with water to get rid of any pesticides or germs stuck to that branch :D

and you are already at such a position
I meant at such a great position but forgot to type it. Oops!!!! :oops2:
 

fluffypoptarts

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You sound like you’re on the way to being a great lovebird guardian! You’ve already been so observant with these two.

1) I think you’re right that these two may not be a true pair. It’s probably better that they’re separated to prevent violence.

2) There’s often that little “honeymoon” period in the beginning when the birds are holding back and being more agreeable. Sounds like your honeymoon is already ending! Don’t fret; it’s going to take time for you to earn their trust and bond with them. Also, approaching their head with your finger first may be encouraging the biting because it will likely come off as threatening to birds that don’t trust you.

3) Male lovebirds actually tend to be gentler and more agreeable - the females are often the more aggressive, “in charge” personalities!

4) Silent birds are scared or sick birds. Yours sound like they are just scared, so give them some time. They’ll adjust and relax. Just take it slow and steady, and try not to get discouraged!

5) PBFD is scary. It’s very good that you’ve taken precautions. F-10 is your friend.
 

fluffypoptarts

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It would be good to add more toys and perches when you can. Natural materials are preferable. They love to destroy! Oh yeah, and bells and swings are great fun. Watch out for any harmful/toxic metals or anything they could get tangled in (think long lengths of chain, rope, etc a toy might hang from) or anything a head, foot, toe, or beak might get trapped in.

For fresh foods, lovebirds tend to prefer veggies. Make sure you’re aware of what’s toxic and ALSO to use organic produce that has been washed thoroughly as the residual pesticides can kill your birds.

I want to reiterate that you’re doing very well! Biting is normal, fear with new people and environments is normal.
 

Xefalen

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Thank you for all the advices and your kind responses :laugh-bounce:

About the perches: I'll try to change them one after another over time. I don't instantly have the time/money to do so for all of them now, and I prefer to make them DIY, instead of buying. I'll maybe buy and make 50/50.

I watch them all the time, and I think that it is probably better to separate them, since coco, can't have one calm second, she always switches perches, once he comes on her perch. I'll do it like follow: just place the entrance f their old cage in front of the new one, and I'll see who goes in first and close the cages. I think that's the best way to separate them, without traumatizing them. Do you know if I can keep them both in my room? Else it'll start to get tricky with the space management of the appartement. And do you think it may be possible to introduce them "again" later?

I'll really have to dig into food, because for now they only get the budgie grain, and I don't like that, I prefer to complete it with fresh food as I did it with my rats

The foto you got is a bit older. I already have 1 new spiral toy, they love, in the corner (you can't see) there is a coco, branches swing toy, it's a bit hard to put on swings because the cage has a roof and not grids on top... Also there is a ball made out of wood (with a bell in it) but they have shown no interest in it
 

Zara

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Welcome to the Avenue Xefalen! 1.welcome signs.gif

I agree with what @fluffypoptarts said above. First, split the birds up. They do not sound like they are bonded fully. House the cages side by side with perches level so they can sit ¨together¨ if they choose to. I would allow shared out of cage time (under supervision), so they have the opportunity to interact if they want to.

Something very important to remember is that you have a Roseicollis and a Personatus thatt are presumably male/female. Please do not allow them to breed. If you ever get any eggs, boil them all, allow them to cool, and put them back where you found them. Creating hybrid lovebirds is not good for them.


I trained them to be less scared of my finger. I'm doing it like this: slowly approaching my finger to their head, if they try to bite, I back off, come again, until I can touch their beak. If they don't try to bite me, or they try to bite but hold back, I give them a treat everytime they are doing well.
Just keep training the same way you have been doing over the last few days
I would not carry on doing this at all.
I think even some of my ¨tame¨ birds may bite my finger if I come at them like this. I find the best way to get them ok with hands is by getting them on a flat, palm up, hand. It´s less ¨scary¨ than fingers.
I wouldn´t touch their beaks at all until you have quite a substantial relationship with good trust between you both. Even touching the head, I would refrain unless the bird bows before you (invites you to touch their head). I would concentrate on building some trust first.

I would recommend spending time by the cages and feeding them treats through the bars, talking to them, feeding treats while out of the cage.
It has only been days, so they will still be adjusting to your home.
Try to not let them bite you. So don´t do things that you know will result in bites. If you know they bite with certain triggers, either don´t allow the trigger, or try to offer a new toy or foraging oportunitiy before that trigger occurs.

If they will take millet, I have a little video that may help you get them ok with hands. Just remember it can take, days weeks or months between stages, and on a new day, you may have to go back one or two stages to remind them.
 
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Xefalen

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I find the best way to get them ok with hands is by getting them on a flat, palm up, hand. It´s less ¨scary¨ than fingers.
The thing is that, snowball (I'll probably change their names soon, because 1, I don't like them 2, Snowball is waaay too long in my language), already comes on my palm.

The main problem is, that they are never calm like your bird. The one time I let them out, they were flying all around and coming sometimes on my head/shoulder. They are only "calm" in the cage. Also, at the moment they seems to bite everything, be it my hand, my fist or my finger... And he may be calm when on my hand, but last time, he wouldn't even think of getting on my hand. That's hy I wanted to practice more, before letting them out, so he starts to build trust in my hand, and isn't scared of it, next time he flies out.

How do you get yourr birds back in the cage, do you wait until they fly in?

Aaaand the second problem, I can't put the cages at the same height, the one is way shorter, I'll try to do it in any way possible, I'll see...
 

Zara

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In time, the feeding treats to them will let them know that your hands are ok, safe places. And will build trust.
It is good they fly about and are active while out of their cage. Mine usually fly numerous laps before finally calming down a bit.

I put my birds in their cages. Apart from Aldora, I touch her perch, and she goes there. Gisli sometimes puts himself to bed. The rest I call to my hand, then take them and put them in their cages. Though we´re not perfect, sometimes (usually the boys) will give me the run around if they don´t want to go back in.
Sometimes filling the food dish will make them want to go back in.

Aaaand the second problem, I can't put the cages at the same height, the one is way shorter,
Put a perch as the highest perch in the shorter cage, then a perch level in the other cage.
 

Xefalen

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20201119_140353 (1).jpg 20201119_140353.jpg

20201119_140630.jpg

Aaaand, here we go! They are constantly looking at eachother, trying to reach eachother, that's kinda sad to see, but I'll see how they react
 

Xefalen

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Little question. I want to let them fly around. It's better to do it separately today, right?
 

fluffypoptarts

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@Xefalen They will calm down. Right now everything is still too new. Once they trust you more, it will be much easier to get them in their cages. Most of mine are tame and trusting enough that I can literally pick them up bodily and plop them down onto a cage perch. Now, that’s not to say I don’t get resistance at times because some of them never want to leave me, lol (like Twinkie and Fishy, and Termite to some extent). They will go to great lengths to try to hold onto my fingers and dive back into my shirt (Twinkie loves to nap in my shirt). :xflove:

You can have them out together, but you’ll need to supervise closely (all of their out time should be supervised anyway). If you’re concerned about them being stressed by being able to see each other but not reach each other while caged, you could try putting up a screen between them to see if that helps.
 

fluffypoptarts

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I have a lovebird (Toki) that we rescued that does not step up onto hands and is still skittish with people. I have found the best way to get him back in his cage is either to wait until he lands on me and then put my arm or shoulder to the cage opening, or to use Fishy to keep him from trying to evade. He’s absolutely in love with Fishy, so I’ll hold Fishy up to him and then gently scoop Toki up. We’ve built enough trust that this doesn’t frighten him, and I can even give him kisses, he’s just really wary of hands (understandable as he used to be unceremoniously grabbed all the time in his former life).

We’ve had Toki for 1.5 years and he has come a long way. It used to be he wouldn’t sit on me at all, no matter what. Then he would sit on me but fly off at the slightest movement. Then he started sitting on me a lot, and being okay with being close to my hands and face. Then he would allow me to give him kisses on the beak or touch his chest lightly with a fingertip. I have no doubt that he’ll continue acclimating, and I think it helps that the other birds are always on me and not the least bit scared of me.

So give it time. They will probably surprise you. Just hang in there.
 

Zara

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You can have them out together, but you’ll need to supervise closely (all of their out time should be supervised anyway).
I agree. This way if they want to bond, they have the opportunity to do so. If they do pair up, and act more like a bonded pair of lovebirds do, then you can try housing them together again in the future.

I forgot to say earlier, my males rarely beak at my girls. It´s the other way around, the hens are usually the ones bickering/nipping the boys.

You may want to get your second bird sexed, just so you know what you are dealing with.
 

Xefalen

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They are flying! They love to fly some circles and to see how much space they have!!! They are MUCH more calm! They were inspecting their cages until XD, one of the door fell down and made them panick. I actually just saw coco regurgitate and give food to snow!!! They are not annoying eachother at all

They like my head XD, and they like my hair and they like eating my books (I was aware of that).
 
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