I am being hunted again :(

[NightOwls]

Maybe get one of those suits used with training bite work in dogs?

 

[NightOwls]

Or make a contraption that you can wheel in and out of the room for the water & food? Then you can change them in peace outside of the room?

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

I too, am sorry for the bites you suffered and having to go through such a terrifying time. I sure know how it is with an adult male Amazon on the attack. I do truly believe it’s not personal and they simply cannot control the behavior and strong will to drive us out of what they deem their territory. Worst case scenario is Burt doesn’t get any freedom from his cage for the meantime for your safety and you figure out how to give him fresh water and food….. and lots of things to destroy even if it’s a 2x4 chunk of lumber. It was rare for me to lock Henry up. To calm the savage beast, while he may be smaller than Burt,he is equally dangerous, I would give him wood blocks to occupy him while I changed his paper while he was out or his evening cooked grub would keep me safe and him busy while he ate on top of his cage. Even at the height of his pissofedness he would focus on that meal instead of an attack but would still show his full temper by stabbing his beak into the bowl … like, “ look at me! I’m MAD!!” For years I kept Henry clipped… albeit very conservatively. He was not afraid to jump off is cage to attack and really only did that twice in all these years but did jump on top of my head once. ( it was not a howdy doody visit). I will never suggest clipping to anyone. It’s a personal choice and I truly believe it takes away the confidence of birds. With that said.. when Henry’s flights were almost filled in I said to self… “ self- it’s that time. He’s in killer mode and I hate to but I should”. Trying to restrain him to safely do so was awkward and only adding fuel to the fire. I was not willing to cause any emotional trauma or lose any trust we had left. So , Henry is fully flighted. I never locked him up until bedtime. Always let him out mid morning. I love that he has his flight feathers. So now , I will tell the truth. It was one night a tad more than two years ago I changed the papers for He and Lola and I was giving them their fresh water and food bowls, the only signal he gave me was a lean to from his perch. He didn’t look angry but it was an iffy quick posture. I grabbed my food bowls and had my hands full as I approached their cages. And then he launched towards me. I took a few steps back to avoid contact and then I fell backwards. It took me a few seconds to recover and so wished I wasn’t hurt. Then I realized I couldn’t get up. My hip was broken. I can’t describe any further because the memory is so traumatic. My life has been changed in so many ways and I live with pain. He is still flighted but has no freedom. I can’t take a risk from any other injuries… I’m incredibly sad for him. Nobody knows my trauma- I never told any of my family Or my spouse. I will not allow pressure to find him a new home by my family so it was best to keep it to myself. He will only leave under the best of circumstances and so far that hasn’t happened. I’m his guardian. So now you all know.

The whole point of this is encourage you to be safe with Burt. I am so unfamiliar with Australian weather and if the season is what is contributing to his hormone driven behavior. This is your second season with this and you got through it the first time. You do have to consider your safety and will find a way to manage and do what will keep you both happy. Even if it means limited outings. I wish I could afford a large turnout for fly time to burn off his energy. That’s it.. God’s blessings and wishing sweetness from Burt to return soon.

 

[Shezbug]

@Mockinbirdiva I am so sorry to hear that is how you broke your hip

I wont be letting Burt out of his cage till I can be confident enough that he has his impulsiveness under control, I honestly could not live with myself if I clipped his wings, I do not believe it should be a right nor do I feel it should be done for any reason other than if it is for his wellbeing and health- staying caged for a short period is a better option in my mind than deliberately disabling his flight.
I am not as physically capable as I once was due to a pretty bad injury that ended up altering my whole life and my physical abilities, knowing how terrible loosing my total independence and physical health was and continues to be 10 years later and how I have changed (not for the better) I can not ever with a good conscience choose to disable him or any other bird.
We will work through it same as last year and I will be patient and wait for the nicer calmer behaviour to return when the hormones settle again.

 

[Shezbug]

Or make a contraption that you can wheel in and out of the room for the water & food? Then you can change them in peace outside of the room?

I do not understand?

 

[Sparkles99]

I think Nightowls means like a wheeling cart with food & water on it. Wheel one in, wheel the other out & keep swapping. Seems like a good idea?

 

[Shezbug]

I think Nightowls means like a wheeling cart with food & water on it. Wheel one in, wheel the other out & keep swapping. Seems like a good idea?

I do not understand how that would help- he would have to be out of the cage to get to the cart. Maybe I am missing something?

 

[NightOwls]

Yeah, something like...

or this on wheels

If you do not allow him out of the cage unsupervised, then maybe food/toys can be hooked up to it side-track him when changing things in his cage?

 

[Shezbug]

Yeah, something like...
View attachment 418529
or this on wheels
View attachment 418530
If you do not allow him out of the cage unsupervised, then maybe food/toys can be hooked up to it side-track him when changing things in his cage?

Sorry, I guess we are not thinking along the same lines, I am totally lost how this can help keep me safe from hormonal attacks. If I let Burt out of the cage at the moment he instantly flies at me to attack, if I retreat to an area he cant fly to and land he will make his way to the floor and run to get me, if I leave him in the room unattended for any length of time he will literally end up harming himself after destroying everything he can including the power points and cables and the strip of rubber seal that keeps the window in place in the frame, so leaving him roaming free in a room alone is not an option- his beak is large and strong enough to damage everything. He has toys and other things he has stolen to entertain himself when he is out of his cage- he is not interested in any of it if he can reach me- I left his huge container full of in shell nuts in a easy to get to place hoping he would go treat himself to his favourite foods this morning but he literally only had eyes for me. He does not take his eyes off me and he is trying to break cage bars to get at me. To access the things you have shown me he would have to be out of his cage...

 

[Kassiani]

Here's a really silly idea...but...do you have a cover for his cage? If so, could you cover it so he couldn't see you while pulled the grate and tray out in turn to clean them? Position it so the opening was near the food and water dish doors so you could open it just enough to swing open the doors and swap out the dishes. Just leave the cover on long enough to do that and then remove it once everything is secure again. If you have to padlock the food and water doors it might give you enough time to take care of that and he wouldn't see you.

I know, ridiculous! I'm just trying to think of ways you could keep your fingers and sanity intact!

 

[Peachfaced]

This is kind of a long shot, Shez, but have you done any target training? My goal here, would be to have it where he only gets his most beloved treat for targetting to a certain spot, and staying there until you release him from the "stay".

My other thought, would be maybe targetting him to a carrier/other cage, and keep him busy with a difficult treat (nut), so that you have time to close the door, and contain him, so that you can do your food and water changes.

 

[Dartman]

The idea of some sort of lock that he can't destroy to keep the doors safe and same thing with the feed doors. The main door on Dobbys house has a button that you push to release the latch, and you slide it back into the latch to lock it. If he couldn't reach the button or you made something strong enough to protect it he probably could not get it open. Puffs cage has a bar that slides into the door and slides like a foot before it can open, then she added another caribiner so door doesn't open enough for him to escape.
The round locks with a key and stainless steel case might work well. They're designed to be impossible to get bolt cutters into to cut the hasp. Should be the same idea for him as he couldn't get enough area to get his beak in or on. I have several on my shed and gate and nobody has cut them yet. Burt certainly couldn't. They make them in various sizes and you probably would want several spare keys made or try to get enough in the same key to make life easier. I know you can order master locks all keyed the same if you want.

 

[Shezbug]

Here's a really silly idea...but...do you have a cover for his cage? If so, could you cover it so he couldn't see you while pulled the grate and tray out in turn to clean them? Position it so the opening was near the food and water dish doors so you could open it just enough to swing open the doors and swap out the dishes. Just leave the cover on long enough to do that and then remove it once everything is secure again. If you have to padlock the food and water doors it might give you enough time to take care of that and he wouldn't see you.

I know, ridiculous! I'm just trying to think of ways you could keep your fingers and sanity intact!

HIs cage is too large to easily cover and I stopped trying when he pulled half a doona in through the bars when he was a baby and I literally had to spend half a day pushing it back out from the inside lol, it is not an easy thing to cover and I would be loosing a king size sheet each day to cover it- he pops his beak through material like it is melted butter. I will maybe just offer him foraging on top of his cage- fill small boxes with food and let him tear at them.

 

[Shezbug]

This is kind of a long shot, Shez, but have you done any target training? My goal here, would be to have it where he only gets his most beloved treat for targetting to a certain spot, and staying there until you release him from the "stay".

My other thought, would be maybe targetting him to a carrier/other cage, and keep him busy with a difficult treat (nut), so that you have time to close the door, and contain him, so that you can do your food and water changes.

He is an absolute master at targeting- literally the first thing I tried when he changed moods the other day, he has zero interest in the target stick or the favorite treat. If I go to treat him with a in shell nut through the cage bars he is trying to get past the nut to get me, If I try when he is free he is only interested in climbing on me to bite, he is hyper focussed on me and nothing else seems to grab his interest. I wont put him in his carrier unless I need to move him to the car for a trip, more than 45 seconds in there while it is not moving has him pulling bits off it and I really can't afford a new one or the travel into Melbourne to get one large enough for him just now.

This behaviour is honestly like I am now dealing with an unkown bird- this is not Burts usual demeanor or behaviour and responses are totally different to what I would expect. The best way I can explain it is like my bird has been replaced with a feral bird that looks the same. His only interest is to bite me at the moment.

I would attempt to get him in a smaller cage I have but even when he is cooperative he wont go in it so no use even moving it in near his cage.

 

[Pixiebeak]

I was thinking kinda like night owl. But I was thinking a spare Cage that you put food and water into, then mash up to his cage secure and have him transfer to the spare. Then secure him in that one and do stuff to his main cage then repeat to transfer back.

Or create a tunnel to transfer between cages from.

Or if you can drop an acrylic divider or exluder through cage bars? Or slide in through the door as you open .

Im trying to think of the creative stuff we use to have to use with wildlife.

We were big on acrylic sheilds. Coz we could see through and block at the same time.

Or if he will transfer to a travel cage( dog kennel) that fully blocks door that you can modify so can't grab your fingers as does. Like out on a rolling table that lines up with door height . On the dog kennels we removed the door and slid down our own home made divider.

Ok well it was a fun mental exercise for me at least ! Brought back some memories of some "fun" times with critters

 

[Shezbug]

Thanks @Pixiebeak

Unfortunately the door on his corner cage is way too large for any carrier I know of to block, a tunnel to be fixed, a sheet of acrylic to be slid into the opening of the door would then stop me from getting to the food dishes etc anyway.
To buy a sheet of acrylic the size I would need for blocking the door way would be a few hundred dollars for it to be specially cut to size (scam business here I am pretty sure) and packed, then the specialist freight (not all carriers will take it as it is easy to ruin) would be almost the same cost again (I know the cost is OTT as I looked for a small sheet of perspex/acrylic approx a quarter the size of Burts cage door for a random job a few months back) and it would not slide in through the cage bars anyhow as the cage has cross bars running the opposite direction, it would also be hard to achieve the desired outcome given the shape of the corner cages and the fact the door is not the whole height or width of cage etc so I would need a piece much larger than just the door opening. Large cages are much harder to section off how you are picturing than say the flight cages for smaller birds would be.
I get what you are saying and with the right cage it is an awesome idea (that I have used in the past to separate ferrets) but the amount of money work and hassle to make a useful barrier would result in me not being able to slide it in or use it appropriately which would totally make having it useless.
Erecting another macaw sized cage (macaw sized so the doors are the same size and can be faced together) in my bedroom just to help out for a few weeks or months is not an really a good option as I still need to be able to get around in there without having to move furniture or cages so I can get around- he also refuses to voluntarily get into the macaw cages I have which is why I have not moved him out of the cage he loves and has broken- if I could get him in the other cage voluntarily and without a fuss then I could just use the divider it comes with- I may towel and force him in it but I just havent the heart to upset him nor the energy and strength to undo and redo the cage from its current location just to make do for a few months :/ The spare cage I have has a much smaller door than his current cage too I am pretty sure so again it would not line up as needed.
My current living situation is seriously not ideal so I can not safely house Burt in the main part of the house where his other double macaw cage is set up, Squeaky budgie is easy to cover and move if needed in a hurry and for some reason he is not as interesting to many people who visit and they also can not fit fingers through bars so mums visitors are safe from their own impulsive stupidity and Squeak is generally safe in the communal area from being used as an entertainment piece- Burt is a different story when it comes to many people.

 

[Sarahmoluccan]

@Shezbug I'm so sorry you're going through this. In my early days with Echo he was pretty aggressive at times thankfully not 100% of the time. I got him roughly around age 7 which depending on what source you use is, is the tail end of U2 reaching sexual maturity. I know our situations are different but I'll tell you something that helped me that might help you.

From what you have described in this thread it does sound like Burt has this all of pent-up energy he needs some kind of release from. Because he'll attack if he's outside of his cage is there any way you help release that energy when he's in his cage? Echo attacks empty paper towel and other various things. Is there anything like a toy, old phone book, or paper towel roll that you can safely place half inside and outside that would distract Burt long enough to let you change his water and food in peace?

If not, could you put it something he can attack half-hour or so before you feed him so at least he's somewhat tired and then not going after you full force? I find when Echo super hyper finding way help release that energy goes along way in helping ease the tensions between us. Plus once he's worn out some he's way easier to deal with. Then I praise him like crazy when he's being his normal calm self again.

I hope this was somewhat helpful. And I wish you all the best with it. I know its not easy

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

@Mockinbirdiva I am so sorry to hear that is how you broke your hip

I wont be letting Burt out of his cage till I can be confident enough that he has his impulsiveness under control, I honestly could not live with myself if I clipped his wings, I do not believe it should be a right nor do I feel it should be done for any reason other than if it is for his wellbeing and health- staying caged for a short period is a better option in my mind than deliberately disabling his flight.
I am not as physically capable as I once was due to a pretty bad injury that ended up altering my whole life and my physical abilities, knowing how terrible loosing my total independence and physical health was and continues to be 10 years later and how I have changed (not for the better) I can not ever with a good conscience choose to disable him or any other bird.
We will work through it same as last year and I will be patient and wait for the nicer calmer behaviour to return when the hormones settle again.

I am truly sorry you suffered injuries as well. Like you, my changes haven’t been for the better either, emotionally or physically I am not capable of doing what I once could. I turned 66 in October and I sure thought my golden years I would be in better shape because I did weight training and body building in my twenties. I was so depressed after writing about my incident but sooner or later it needed to come out. I just want you to be safe and for Burt and Henry to be whole happy birds. I have a smaller cage ( not made for an Amazon) that has sat empty so I gave it a good scrub. I rolled it next to Henry’s door and put the two together so he could climb into the other. It took a few minutes and finagling to prevent him escaping through a small gap but in the end it was uneventful and no stress on him. I rolled it outside on a nice weather day and gave him a long, long well deserved shower with the garden hose. He was in all his glory- wings out-hanging upside down, blabbing up a storm. He’s like the Teflon Don… water just rolls off of him but that day as long as he wanted it I showered him… he was soaked and happy.

My pits get sweaty just reading about Burt. Nobody but those of us who have big birds coming at us full on like pissed off vise grips knows how unnerving it can be. That sweet voice Henry has doesn’t mean he should be trusted but where ever he goes it will be known he was talked to kindly and his owner had a great sense of humor. I have for years used simple key words. I say “excuse me” when I want him to move away or to the back of his cage. I might get a little louder than a polite ask until he moves. I also give him a pine nut in shell to occupy now when I change papers. Burt doesn’t sound like he will fall for that right now. I don’t know how you change his foods and paper but it sounds like you need a shield like plexiglass with a handle in the center on your side. You will be able to see him just as he can see you. He may be pissed he can’t get at you but in the end he know you were not intending harm and will settle when he decides to eat. At least now I can rub his cheeks, under his chin and even rub his closed eyes through the bars… ever careful watching so he doesn’t grab my finger. It happened once long ago when I was trying to leave on a good note and he held on with his beak pierced through my finger. It was numb for two months!

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Scratch the plexiglass idea.. I read your previous post

 

[Clueless]

Can you change water and food at night in the dark??