Help with stubborn African grey!

[ConureMom95]

I recently adopted an African Grey. He’s about 5 years old and a little shy. He was quite bonded to his first family and did well enough with the owner of the shop. I’ve been working with him since we got him. Sitting by his cage talking to him and playing a game where I hand him some toy and he throws it and then I give it back. He’s quite sweet and talkative. He has no problem with me sitting by his cage with the door open I can even put my hand in the cage and believe it or not I can touch him. But I’m only allowed to touch his beak and on one occasion he allowed me to give him some serious head scratches.
Now comes my problem. Step up is absolutely not an option. If I get too near his feet/chest he either runs away or bites. I’ve tried coercing with treats and toys and I’ve tried simply leaving my hand near him to give him the option but no go.
At the shop the owner was able to take him out but he would bite her every time not serious enough to break skin or hurt her but enough that I don’t want to develop that habit with him and have him think it’s okay.
I know training a bird in his cage can be much harder than training out of the cage but as of now I can’t get him out. I’ve tried getting him to step up on a perch with the same results as with my own hand. I’ve also tried to get him to come out of his cage on his own and he just won’t.
Does anyone out there have experience with stubborn Greys and any suggestions outside of what I’m doing to help out. Thanks so much!

 

[Shezbug]

 

[Danita]

Don’t force him to do anything. Every time you try and get bit, it’s just a rehearsal for more of the same behavior. Watch for his comfort zone and retreat when he shows you he doesn’t want you there. If you are going to try things, tell him what you are going to do, so he lets you know eventually. Like I always say “ can I pet you?” Or “ can I change your water?” “Do you want to step up?” You will learn their body language. Unless it is necessary, always give them a choice. He isn’t stubborn, he is exercising his right to choose

 

[Tazlima]

Don’t force him to do anything. Every time you try and get bit, it’s just a rehearsal for more of the same behavior. Watch for his comfort zone and retreat when he shows you he doesn’t want you there. If you are going to try things, tell him what you are going to do, so he lets you know eventually. Like I always say “ can I pet you?” Or “ can I change your water?” “Do you want to step up?” You will learn their body language. Unless it is necessary, always give them a choice. He isn’t stubborn, he is exercising his right to choose

All of this. And in the meantime, you can start target training (which is easily done within/on a cage). It's a great way to open a dialogue with your bird - show him that while he doesn't HAVE to do what you ask, good things happen when he does.

My grey is very sensitive to being forced to do anything. She's mastered the art of passive resistance (when I ask her to step up and she doesn't want to, she'll bow her head and ask for scritches*... can't step up onto something that's above your head). If I really need her to move somewhere, I just run to the kitchen and find a suitable bribe... she can definitely be bought with a chunk of cantalope.

She's far more resistant to training than my other birds. They're eager to perform, while she seems to feel doing tricks is beneath her (she likes targeting, though), so I'm taking it at her pace, and it's slowly slowly paying off. Despite her pride/dignity/whatever you want to call it, she recently deigned to let me teach her to wave... progress!

 

[ConureMom95]

Don’t force him to do anything. Every time you try and get bit, it’s just a rehearsal for more of the same behavior. Watch for his comfort zone and retreat when he shows you he doesn’t want you there. If you are going to try things, tell him what you are going to do, so he lets you know eventually. Like I always say “ can I pet you?” Or “ can I change your water?” “Do you want to step up?” You will learn their body language. Unless it is necessary, always give them a choice. He isn’t stubborn, he is exercising his right to choose

Thank you these are things I’m doing. But it’s good to hear I’m making good steps.

 

[ConureMom95]

All of this. And in the meantime, you can start target training (which is easily done within/on a cage). It's a great way to open a dialogue with your bird - show him that while he doesn't HAVE to do what you ask, good things happen when he does.

My grey is very sensitive to being forced to do anything. She's mastered the art of passive resistance (when I ask her to step up and she doesn't want to, she'll bow her head and ask for scritches*... can't step up onto something that's above your head). If I really need her to move somewhere, I just run to the kitchen and find a suitable bribe... she can definitely be bought with a chunk of cantalope.

She's far more resistant to training than my other birds. They're eager to perform, while she seems to feel doing tricks is beneath her (she likes targeting, though), so I'm taking it at her pace, and it's slowly slowly paying off. Despite her pride/dignity/whatever you want to call it, she recently deigned to let me teach her to wave... progress!

Passive resistance! I love that and the scenario you described is exactly what Rex does he puts his head down and accepts scratches when I ask him to stop. I’ve been thinking about doing the target training so I’ll definitely have to give that a shot

 

[hrafn]

I've had my CAG, Kamara, for almost two years, and she still does not step up; she may, in fact, never step up. She has an ingrained fear and wariness of being removed from her cage (her safe space), but over time she has become braver and braver and will venture farther out and closer to me. Patience is absolutely key when it comes to building trust, and forcing your grey to do something he doesn't want to do will only make him less likely to trust you.

Biting is a rewarding behaviour in and of itself, so the key is to not get bitten. As Danita said, this isn't stubbornness, it's simply a sentient creature making a choice, and saying no to something he doesn't want. Ask for his permission, be understanding, and don't impose your will on him. He needs time to adjust to his new world, and to you.

 

[ConureMom95]

Just replying to anyone who needs help with this issue in the future and stumbles on this thread!
Rex is now much more comfortable with me. He comes out and cuddles and wants to be with me. We’re still not perfect and building trust each day. But here’s what worked for me!
I moved his cage into a room that I frequented much more (had my tv and computer in it). I purchased a play stand which I kept next to his cage for about a week so he could look at it.
Rex already likes to come and sit out on his “patio” (the little metal gate that drops straight down and birds can come straight out and sit it on it. Mostly see it on domed top cages) so whenever I was in the room I’d keep the patio open and just let Rex live his life while I lived mine.
eventually he began exploring the play stand and growing more adventurous. The more he explored the more I inserted myself. I would give him treats when I’d come near and just stand near the play stand while he played. I gave a lot of toys and treats to make outside a POSITIVE experience.
A big part of this is sometimes Rex would get spooked and fly across the room. The key here is that he stepped up off the floor. I would never keep him out when he did this I would pick him up and immediately return him to safety (his cage).
eventually I’d start asking him to step up off the play stand. This was easier for him since I was not in his space I was in OUR space. Sometimes he’d still bite or just refuse but most of the time he’d step up.
eventually I moved this practice to the cage. He puts his head down to step up and that means no, I learned to respect this no.
one day instead of putting his head down he stepped out
Now he knows that I’m the key to coming out and I’m way more fun than a play stand since I provide treats and scratches!
sometimes he still says no and that’s okay because sometimes he also demands I come get him with a very loud “Rex do you wanna step up”