Help with interpreting Ceddy, please <vid>

[CeddysMum]

Ceddy has become a little bit nippy lately, nothing serious, just the odd pin prick but I feel she's trying to communicate something to me and I can't work out what it is, which in turn seems to frustrate her - unless I'm wayyyy off

I managed to get some on video - she doesn't want to be touched or to step up but it's obvious that she's not happy about something - when I walk away she's unhappy as well, so I have no idea what to make of it and I'm wondering if you guys would mind giving me your opinions.

And yes, I'm trying not to react when she does nip me but once in the video she got me right in the cuticle, ouch, couldn't stop myself then

Sorry, had some trouble with back lighting again and it's fairly long (4min)

Thanks
​

 

[Greycloud]

Astrid, how old is Ceddy? I see a young bird that is a little fearful of close contact and she is telling you to back off. Even though you handled yourself well by keeping your hand very still, she was uncomfortable with this interaction. I think you are going to have to take two steps back to gain that one step forward. Ceddy was doing a little lunge at you and the camera, I could see a little bit of eye pinning going on and then the finger nipping. These were all means of her telling you that she is uncomfortable with you in her space.
I think what you should do is back off with the touching and start over. Just sit and talk with her. Do not have direct eye contact with her, look a little off to the side. After doing this a couple times a day for several days start by offering her a favorite treat. Something yummy, even if it is a chip or piece of pretzel. Soon as she gets use to taking things from your fingers she will begin to trust having your hand close to her again. Then try again with just letting your hand sit still on her perch. Don't put your hand right next to her, let her make the decision to come over to the hand. Slowly she will begin to build a trust with you. Once we have a birds trust that is when the magic can begin. Remember to never force her to do something she doesn't want to do, then the trust goes out the window. Your job is to convince her that her responses to you were her decision. This is done with patience. You use a nice quiet, gentle voice which I commend you for. So just step back and start over.

 

[CeddysMum]

Thanks, Judy. Yes, that's what I was thinking too (and note, I 'forced' the issue a bit with the video, usually I do back off). Ceddy's ca. 2 years old, I've had her for 6 months.

I just cannot work out what might have caused this set-back after not having had any problems getting close, stepping up etc for 3 to 4 months

Could it be a territorial thing developing over her playstand?

 

[whitewolf3307]

I agree with Graycloud you can also try giveing some treats by hand too to help see that there is nothing to fear from the hand. I have a budgie that hates to be touched but he will take food from my hand and some times he will let me touch his tail feathers. It takes time and a lot of work day in and day out to earn trust and it is all to easy to lose that trust too. Take it slow and never push more then the bird can take. If he hates it when you leave the room then you should try playing some games with him while you are in the same room and it builds the trust at the same time. Try playing peek a boo or the blinking game where you close you eyes for a few and then wait for the bird to do the same. The longer the bird will keep its eyes closed when playing this means that he is starting to trust you more. At first it may just be a quick wink but the more you play the longer he will keep his eyes closed. Only a bird that is not afraid will blink so by closeing you eyes you are telling him that there is nothing to be afraid of and will soon join you in the I'm not afraid blinking game.

 

[CeddysMum]

Thank you, Whitewolf! I'll try the blinking game and maybe Peek-a-boo again as well.

She still very happily takes food from my hands, so it's not completely back to square one.

I'll just have to figure out:

1. What caused this, so it won't frighten her again in the future to cause more setbacks
2. If it's territorial (bit of a problem if that's the case, I might have to make her a temporary new playstand and take this one away )

hmmmm....

 

[igors mum]

how long has she had the playstand. when igor is protective of his cage or anything he just lunges he doesnt make the noise ceddy does. to me the sound she makes sounds like a baby alex or a nesty female. is she like that every wheres else or just on the playstand. igor will go thru days where he will lunge over the littlest thing then the next minute he is back to his old self again.im still watching the video .

 

[CeddysMum]

Deb, she's had the playstand for about 5 months (or there-about). When she's out of cage, which is whenever I'm home and up (= not overnight) she spends most of her time on there although she has the option of going on/in her cage at all times. So yes, so far she's mainly done it on that playstand for the last week to 10 days.

However, this just made me think about it, it actually started when she started refusing to go to bed (cage) too. I have gently made her go into her cage at night by covering the area where she tries to sleep with a towel and 'guiding' her into the cage - BIG CLUE!

OK, I think that's what may have caused her to become scared. Now the question is, how to I avoid having to force her into the cage at night while at the same time not scaring her . I will need to work something out...

 

[igors mum]

i remember that post where she wouldnt go to bed for you that night. can you just get her to step up on a perch and put her in the cage at night? with a favortite treat as a bribe. that used to work for igor but he got to smart for it lol. igor is a pain to get to go back also. he gets very bitey at that time.i have had to towel him a couple of times he is ok with being toweled he is used to it from a baby but its hard getting him when he is fully flighted lol.
does she do the sounds she made on the video at other times? igor hasnt sounded like that since he was about 2 or 3months old. thats why i said she sounded like a baby.

 

[CeddysMum]

Thanks Deb, back online now.

1. tried everything I can think of to get her to bed - she won't step up to anything then, no bribing, nothing works - as if she's glued to the playstand . So tonight I'll continue putting the towel where she wants to sleep (so far, it's just one area) but leave her alone to see if she'll go into the cage by herself eventually. I've just attached a new perch to the cage door, which is where she's been sleeping on her toy caddy when I made her go in. Maybe she'll like that new perch <sigh>.

2. She's always made those sounds. Usually those are the sounds she uses to answer me when I come in and/or talk to her. And they're not always in connection with other signs of fear/biting/lunging, just simply her answering me. Even from across the room or when I'm out of sight and I talk to her. And I agree, they very much sound like baby sounds, which is also why I've been confused what she might be trying to tell me ???

I don't know how she was weaned/fledged, having supposedly been 18 months old when I got her and parent raised (not hand raised). Unfortunately, I have no idea of her past - you know pet shops, how much can one trust what they tell you?!

Anyway, when I got home earlier, I sat with a chair next to her play stand, put the bottom part of her climbing thingy (attached to the play stand) on my lap so that I was further away but she could choose to climb down to me, and offered her her favourite sunflower kernels on the open hand. She happily climbed down and fed from the open hand, so that's something. When I attached the perch I was with my back to her and she climbed to the closest spot on her play stand and kept pulling on my shirt - not in a 'attacking/lunging' sort of way but more like wanting attention.

So yes, she does want to be close to me but then I get close she's started doing what you saw in the video. Very confusing - probably not to her (I'm sure she knows what she's trying to say) but to me

 

[igors mum]

hopefully maybe shiloh (raizer will see this post and he might be able to give you some pointers. i know he had a lot of problems with pacman for a while biting.

 

[CeddysMum]

Thanks Deb.

Thankfully, the biting is not that bad. I'm really just trying to figure out what's going on so that I can help Ceddy through it and not maybe inadvertently worsen any fears in her or whatever this is about.

OK, time to try and get that young lady to bed. She seems ready to settle for the night.

 

[igors mum]

good luck with her tonite. hopefully its just a growing phase.

 

[JLcribber]

Many birds have a thing about "hands". They are very predator like in their look and movement. Reaching with them is also predator like.

Have you tried to get her to step up on your forearm???

Try offering your elbow instead and keep you hand close to your body.

Another thing you can try is let her beak your forehead. Your face, eyes, mouth are basically you to them. Your hands are not.

 

[akijoy]

Gertie, my grey makes a similar movement (puts her head upside down and beaks (not bites) my fingers) when she wants me to feed her. I comfort feed my birds warm food morning and evening, and if she is hungry, she will do like that until I feed her. That may not be Ceddy's thing at all, but the video just reminded me of how Gertie begs to be fed, so I thought I'd throw it out there. If I don't hurry up and spoon feed Gertie, she will get more persistent and more beaky, but as soon as she is fed, she is content, and starts her preening.

 

[CeddysMum]

Many birds have a thing about "hands". They are very predator like in their look and movement. Reaching with them is also predator like.

Have you tried to get her to step up on your forearm???

Try offering your elbow instead and keep you hand close to your body.

Another thing you can try is let her beak your forehead. Your face, eyes, mouth are basically you to them. Your hands are not.

Thank you, John! Yes, she'd been happily stepping up onto my forearm for months and sometimes onto the hand close to the wrist. Also tried a small T-perch - but she actually preferred to step up onto the forearm than to the T-perch. I'd been able to take her into the kitchen to get her breakfast ready, things like that - until this started.

SOMETHING scared her or caused some kind of change and now she won't step up at all and the lunging, including towards my face if I get too close (she never showed signs of fear of my face before), and the 'finger pin prick biting' started (she hasn't bitten my face so far)

It doesn't help that I only have the pet shop's word about her age and how she's been raised. IF she's 2 years old now, she's an adolescent, but for all I know she could be older - meaning mature - and in any case possibly hormones come into the equation too - a lot of MAYBEs and IFs to work through .

Gertie, my grey makes a similar movement (puts her head upside down and beaks (not bites) my fingers) when she wants me to feed her. I comfort feed my birds warm food morning and evening, and if she is hungry, she will do like that until I feed her. That may not be Ceddy's thing at all, but the video just reminded me of how Gertie begs to be fed, so I thought I'd throw it out there. If I don't hurry up and spoon feed Gertie, she will get more persistent and more beaky, but as soon as she is fed, she is content, and starts her preening.

You know, Monica, that was one thought I had, too. I actually tried spoon feeding but she was afraid of the spoon and RAN. I might try if she'll take food from a syringe and if she does to get a larger syringe to comfort feed. She loves taking diluted juice from a small syringe the vet gave me so there's a good chance she will.

Maybe there's more than one thing going on ... I 'just' have to work out what so that I can find out how best to deal with it and help her through the insecurities

 

[Beatriz Cazeneuve]

At two years of age, she is completely sexually mature and psittaculas can become quite mean when hormonal so this is a possible explanation for the new nipping. Also, about the trouble in getting her to go to sleep at night, is she fully exposed to dawn and dusk? Because birds that have a healthy circadian cycle never have any trouble with it, quite the contrary, they go on their own...

 

[CeddysMum]

At two years of age, she is completely sexually mature and psittaculas can become quite mean when hormonal so this is a possible explanation for the new nipping. Also, about the trouble in getting her to go to sleep at night, is she fully exposed to dawn and dusk? Because birds that have a healthy circadian cycle never have any trouble with it, quite the contrary, they go on their own...

Thank you, Beatriz.

I agree it could be hormonal, however, as it is my understanding, Alexandrines don't fully mature until about three years of age. So there's still a 'maybe' involved which is what I'm trying to figure out.

And yes, Ceddy does continue to settle to sleep at dusk as she's always done. The problem is, that she now wants to sleep on her playstand and I just can't leave her out of cage all night unsupervised. So I have to make her go into her cage even if she refuses to step up or be bribed. So, as I said earlier, I had started putting a towel over her preferred playstand area and guided her inside her cage with my arms - which I now believe is the main reason for this setback.

I've now started hiding my hands when I place a larger towel slowly over the whole playstand so she'll climb into her cage without seeing my hands/arms and hopefully that way she'll learn to understand what 'go to bed' means.

I've also started comfort feeding morning and night in case she wasn't weaned properly (another 'maybe') and I've started the blinking game suggested to me.

Finally, I find that she still readily takes food from my fingers and even happily feeds off my open hand and she has today at least stepped up onto my forearm again twice and not bitten me at all, so hopefully I haven't used up all my 'trust credits' with her as it was mentioned in another thread.

Fingers crossed that this will all slowly get us back on track...

 

[igors mum]

to me alex's tend to be more like a kid i think then other birds. if they are allready close to sleeping and you disturb then to put them away they become more awake then what they were.and usually cranky lol.i was told they start hitting hormones at 6 months and they shouldnt be bred till around 3 yrs old. so they are more mature. and they are smart to lol. if something works for a week or month forget about it working all the time lol. igor used to go back in with a treat but now he grabs the treat then flies away lol.i think ceddy is just going thru a alex spell as i call them .

 

[Welshanne]

Sounds as if it is the hormoned kicking in doesn't it? She obviously does not want your hand anywhere near her in the video and is trying to get you to back off.
Have you tried doing as she is asking you to? and then leaving her come to you when she is ready? Might be just an hormonal phase she is going through.
Is there anything different about her cage and its position say, that has suddenly made her not want to go in at night? Just a thought, hope you can work it out soon. Good luck.

 

[CeddysMum]

to me alex's tend to be more like a kid i think then other birds.

Quite possibly! My young lady currently shows quite a few signs of the 'terrible twos'

igor used to go back in with a treat but now he grabs the treat then flies away lol.i think ceddy is just going thru a alex spell as i call them .

Umph, I'm sooo looking forward to chasing after her when she can fly again - NOT

Sounds as if it is the hormoned kicking in doesn't it? She obviously does not want your hand anywhere near her in the video and is trying to get you to back off.
Have you tried doing as she is asking you to? and then leaving her come to you when she is ready? Might be just an hormonal phase she is going through.

Yes, I do back off and come back later. Anyway, I'll keep going with what I wrote before, I think we're getting back on track slowly. When she shows signs of possibly lunging/being unhappy about my presence I back off again.

Today she stepped up on my forearm without lunging a number of times and I made sure to stop 'training' before she got tired of it.

She loves the comfort feeding from the syringe morning and night and she's eating sunflower kernels from my open hand without problem - gently beaked my fingers twice today but without the signs of fear/fluffing/pushing away/nipping you saw in the video - AND she didn't mind touching my fingers with her belly in the process (you know - streeeeetch to get to the last couple of seeds )

Is there anything different about her cage and its position say, that has suddenly made her not want to go in at night? Just a thought, hope you can work it out soon. Good luck.

That's where I'm stumped! I have no idea what might have caused the change. I've looked at shadows - making sure there are none around her cage, things like that. I really think she just would prefer to sleep on the playstand for reasons only known to her .

Anyway, the last 3 nights I did the large towel over the playstand thing but making sure no hands/arms showing and so far it's sorta working ( with a lot of patience ) even though she's not happy about it. But when I then sit with her and sing her her lullaby she usually relaxes onto one foot and starts beak grinding fairly quickly.

Fingers crossed it's just a phase and whatever might have caused it won't happen again. Somehow I still think something scared her and I just hope I won't inadvertently do it again <sigh>