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Help on reading a band & getting info

S13Fire

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Hi I hope I’m asking in the correct thread :)I’ve never used a forum before. I am at a loss & would love any insight. I got a B&G Macaw (I am probably her 3rd or 4th home) I was told she was 11 years old. When I had her at the bird store getting her nails done an older man who works there & has been around birds for a very long time told me her leg band, which is rounded (not the flat kind) hasn’t been in use since 1985! It also has RAINTRE & 3 numbers. (It’s closed) I can’t find ANY info at all on a band like this (or reading it) except 1 person who asked about a band just like this a year ago on here & I couldn’t see any responses to her thread. I’d love to get a better idea of what her real age could be or where this band is from or anything! Any help or guidance would be so appreciated. Thank you so much!
 

BirdLady13

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Hi I hope I’m asking in the correct thread :)I’ve never used a forum before. I am at a loss & would love any insight. I got a B&G Macaw (I am probably her 3rd or 4th home) I was told she was 11 years old. When I had her at the bird store getting her nails done an older man who works there & has been around birds for a very long time told me her leg band, which is rounded (not the flat kind) hasn’t been in use since 1985! It also has RAINTRE & 3 numbers. (It’s closed) I can’t find ANY info at all on a band like this (or reading it) except 1 person who asked about a band just like this a year ago on here & I couldn’t see any responses to her thread. I’d love to get a better idea of what her real age could be or where this band is from or anything! Any help or guidance would be so appreciated. Thank you so much!
If possible please upload a photo of the leg band.
 

expressmailtome

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I cant tell you anything about that band but I would definitely have it removed.
 

aooratrix

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I had the pleasure of speaking with Joanne several times. She retired in the late 80's, early 90s. She raised every large macaw species successfully and was recognized globally as an expert on macaws, especially in aviculture. A bird of her breeding would be at least 30 years old.
 

Sarahmoluccan

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I cant tell you anything about that band but I would definitely have it removed.
I was actually thinking the same thing. In the picture it looks tight but it could be just the picture. Personally I'm not a fan of keeping leg bands on for safety reasons. I choose to have my U2's removed after several years of owning him. Main reason was in case of a leg injury and the leg swells up. My past M2 Zane had a leg injury once and his leg swollen up pretty good thankfully he had no leg band. But if he did that injury probably would have cost him his foot.

There are valid reasons to keep them on thou, like proving he actually belongs to you if he gets lost or stolen. So I feel like it's a personal choice that the owner has to make. For me the cons outweighed pros for keeping it on
 

BirdLady13

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I cant tell you anything about that band but I would definitely have it removed.
The leg band is probably perfectly fine; it’s likely the angle the photo was taken. According to Ernesto Enkerlin, “We need to learn to live with leg bands and reduce or eliminate the risks involved because the benefits are many. It is becoming increasingly important to keep records to be able to aid in conservation efforts and more importantly to reduce the commerce in "hot" or "laundered" birds. I think all captive bred birds should be close banded and kept that way.“
 
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I was actually thinking the same thing. In the picture it looks tight but it could be just the picture. Personally I'm not a fan of keeping leg bands on for safety reasons. I choose to have my U2's removed after several years of owning him. Main reason was in case of a leg injury and the leg swells up. My past M2 Zane had a leg injury once and his leg swollen up pretty good thankfully he had no leg band. But if he did that injury probably would have cost him his foot.

There are valid reasons to keep them on thou, like proving he actually belongs to you if he gets lost or stolen. So I feel like it's a personal choice that the owner has to make. For me the cons outweighed pros for keeping it on
You can have birds microchipped now days. :)
 

BirdLady13

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I did some digging; the breeder was Raintree Macaws. Raintree Macaws was in business from January 1976 to July 2005, therefore your macaw is definitely under the age of 30. I reached out to get more information from the owner. I’ll update you if I get more details.
 

Sarahmoluccan

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The leg band is probably perfectly fine; it’s likely the angle the photo was taken. According to Ernesto Enkerlin, “We need to learn to live with leg bands and reduce or eliminate the risks involved because the benefits are many. It is becoming increasingly important to keep records to be able to aid in conservation efforts and more importantly to reduce the commerce in "hot" or "laundered" birds. I think all captive bred birds should be close banded and kept that way.“
While that's interesting reasoning for keeping leg bands, I think there's so much work to be done to get to that point. For example leg bands aren't even standardized and vary from breeder to breeder. The leg band on my U2 Echo wasn't all that informative. I was able to figure out what breeding facility (thanks to this forum) he came from and that in was in Canada but that's it. I'd love to know his true age for example. I heard through second hand knowledge that the place he was from was basically a parrot mill. And I gather it kept sloppy records.

That said I certainly not against keeping records and keeping tract of statistics. There's so many unknowns in the captive parrot world it drives me crazy. I'm not sure what the solution to that problem is. Personally I don't see leg bands as being it.

Echo occasionally get super hyper and attacks toys and runs across the bars of his cage. I could see how a misstep could cause and injure to one of his legs. Personally I think cages and legs bands are a bad mix because of that and unless there's a really compelling reason to keep it on I highly recommend removing it. Still I think its personal choice for the owner.

You can have birds microchipped now days. :)
I have heard that and know and respect owners who have done that and have no problems with it. But personally I'm still not completely sold on microchips for birds. I do have bais against them in the sense my late M2 Zane was a self mutilator. I also not totally sold the idea of the chip being put in muscle either. Honestly I'd have to learn about the science behind thou, but it just strikes me as uncomfortable. My dog is microchipped thou, as I have to problem with idea of it being in his fatty tissue. :)
 

aooratrix

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Wow, I had no idea she was active until 2005. Good to know.

A microchip is not the same as a leg band. Anybody can microchip any bird. A band indicates source and year of hatch and was "installed' at a young age. You can't put a closed band on a bird past a certain age.
 
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aooratrix

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Isn't this thread repeated somewhere else?
 

Shezbug

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Burt's microchip has all the details that are needed including his hatch year. He did not bother the microchip area at all, I was so stressed getting the chip done but after knowing how non problematic it was to get it and heal from it I will not hesitate in the future. It is put in the muscle so it does not migrate like they can do in dogs and cats.
 

S13Fire

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I did some digging; the breeder was Raintree Macaws. Raintree Macaws was in business from January 1976 to July 2005, therefore your macaw is definitely under the age of 30. I reached out to get more information from the owner. I’ll update you if I get more details.
You are AMAZING!!!!! Thank you SO very much!!!!! I appreciate your efforts & would love any update Of any other information if possible!! Again, thank you!! I came up with zero. I would just like to know anything I can about her.
 

S13Fire

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I had the pleasure of speaking with Joanne several times. She retired in the late 80's, early 90s. She raised every large macaw species successfully and was recognized globally as an expert on macaws, especially in aviculture. A bird of her breeding would be at least 30 years old.
Wow, thank you! Where was she located? I’m just curious. Appreciate the response.
 
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S13Fire

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I did some digging; the breeder was Raintree Macaws. Raintree Macaws was in business from January 1976 to July 2005, therefore your macaw is definitely under the age of 30. I reached out to get more information from the owner. I’ll update you if I get more details.
Wow! I have not heard of that aviary in years. It was owned by Joanne Abramson who wrote the best book ever written on macaws, The Large Macaws: Their Care, Breeding, and Conservation: Abramson, Joanne, Speer, Brian L., Thomsen, Jorgen B., Mello, Marsha: 9780963596406: Amazon.com: Books . They have been closed for years now. @Macawnutz or @aooratrix may have a better idea of how long they have been closed, however from what I have heard their birds were all very well taken care of.
thank you so much. I’ve tried looking up anything on them since this group has been way more successful helping me, than myself but I’m not finding even where they were located or anything. I do appreciate all the insight so much though!!
 
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expressmailtome

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thank you so much. I’ve tried looking up anything on them since this group has been way more successful helping me, than myself but I’m not finding even where they were located or anything. I do appreciate all the insight so much though!!
Fort Bragg, California.
 

tka

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Raintree Macaws was in business from January 1976 to July 2005, therefore your macaw is definitely under the age of 30
I'm a bit puzzled by the numbers here - I'm not sure how it's definite that the macaw is under 30. If they were breeding from 1976 and had babies then, the oldest the bird could be is 44. If the kind of band wasn't used after the mid-1980s, then we're looking at an age range of mid-thirties to mid-forties.

The youngest the macaw could be is 15 if she was one of their last chicks, which is still a couple of years older than the 11 you were told.
 
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