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Help me help Sangria

Darklotus555

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/5/19
Messages
87
Its been a LONG time since I have posted. Please don't judge me here. I am posting about an CAG that i live in the home with, but IS NOT my bird.
Her name is Sangria. I met her when I moved in back in 2017. I lived in the home until 2019, and then moved back here again last October.
The man who owns her has macular degeneration and cannot see well. He stopped handling Sangria around 2015.
I used to he very afraid of her. Such a huge beak. But I would clean her cage, talk to her, listen to her talk. Try to interact with her to a point.
Since I have moved back, I have worked a lot with her. She was cage bound, only coming out and sitting on the cage door every now and then. I now have gotten her to step up for me, but she climbs straight to my shoulder, which I know is NOT a good thing. She is extremely fearful of everything. Her owner tried to get her to step up, and I watched her rip a hole in his arm thru his sweatshirt.
I have been taking baby steps with her, to earn her trust, and letting her know I trust her NOT to bite me. I have taken her out of the bird room and walked her down the hallway. Then taken her into the bathroom. I have finally gotten her to my room on the floor above the bird room. I have allowed her to stay as I call "hang out" with me in my room a few times now.
The last 2 times when I was taking her back to the bird room, she has "hissed". So I stop moving immediately. However; when I start to proceed down the stairs, she gently takes my ear in her beak. She will usually say "stop". Yesterday, was the worst day taking her back to her room. I wasn't sure i would make it down the stairs. She (again, very gently) pulled my hair, squeezed my ear, tugged at my glasses, all as "warnings".
She has never bitten me hard or even pinched. But there is pressure, but does not hurt.
I LOVE birds, and I LOVE this bird. Whenever I go near her cage, she tries her best to hijack me, and climb up on me. She wants the attention which I am happy to provide.
I need advice as to how to proceed with her as far as building her confidence, and trust.
I have started teaching her tricks, I have started teaching her to allow me to touch her feet, like "give me foot" and giving her treats when she does.
She went for years of "nothingness" to having me show her a new life. She gets no exercise, she has no toys because she fears them. She will not even stand on a perch due to fear.
She was fed a seed diet with extra peanuts (ugh) to now eating chop, and pellets. Her energy, her speech, her excitement, her everything has improved 10-fold. I don't want it to stop or get stale.
Any suggestions, advice, comments welcome.
Btw, she is approx 10 years old or younger. Please help me help Sangria.
 

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Sunni Tiel

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Oh no the poor bird! I'm so glad you could help. Someone will be here to help soon hopefully!
 

Chomskypom

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I don’t have much for advice, just a ton of admiration. It sounds like you have already done so much to improve Sangria’s quality of life!
I really feel for this poor bird and her fear of toys. I know dogs better than birds, and I successfully trained my dog to fetch, starting from him being afraid of tennis balls, by what sounds like the same method you’re using to teach her the “show me foot” trick. Praise, treats, behavior shaping. It seems like Sangria responds well to training in general, perhaps you can use a similar method to convince her to try a toy? I had to start by rewarding my dog for looking in the direction of the ball... it took a lot of tiny baby steps to get him to touch it and was a weeks-long process.
 

Mizzely

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My Hahns was afraid of perches and toys. It was a long process. What I did was put ONE new item for her cage about 6 feet away from her cage.

Find a distance that works where the bird can see it but doesn't react negatively to it. Leave it there for a week or so. Then move it closer 6 to 12 inches; again, able to see but we want no negative response. Wary is okay as long as they aren't freaked out.

Repeat the process until you can actually attach the item to the outside of the cage on the opposite side of the cage from their favorite roost (usually where they sleep or spend the most time). If there is a negative reaction, go back a step or two. We want then to be able to see the toy but not feel forced to have it next to them, and they usually feel safest in their favorite place.

Finally, I would switch the item to the inside of the cage directly on the other side of where it had been on the outside. That way it's really only moving from outside to inside, not more than a few inches closer.

Once they are okay with that toy (again, wary is okay. We just don't want them anxious or scared) then you can start desensitizing the next item.

I pretty much divide the cage into zones for stuff. So say there is a 5 spots for items.... Ranging from Favorite Perch to Desensitizing Area. I would rotate the toys so that the toy nearest the favorite perch would be retired for a bit, move the next closest toy in its position, and so on and so forth, so that the recently Desensitize toy would move farther into the cage and make room for a new one. In this way, only one new element was added at a time, while the rest are known things and just shifted. It allowed her to have the extra time she needed with toys without getting bored.

It was a process. Some things were able to be moved in within a couple weeks, while others took a month or more. It's all about slightly pushing that comfort zone in manageable amounts. Luckily, in my case, Gizmo did learn to read trust me more through all of this and I was able to swap things in and out of her cage without so much build up after a while.
 

Darklotus555

Strolling the yard
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11/5/19
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87
I have been using this method with toys, and perches. It has been 3 months, and i have not been able to desensitize her to anything yet. In my room the other day, I slowly reached for my cup to get a drink (it was so hot I was so thirsty) and she flew across the room landing on the floor and got caught in a cord. I wanted to make sure she didn't bite the cord, so I quickly unplugged it, and she screamed and flew about a foot away from it. I let her walk to me to step up instead of reaching for her. She quickly walked over and stepped up, which then I started praising her and telling her she was so brave, and such a good girl.
She climbed up to my shoulder, and kinda snuggled against my neck. I kept talking softly to her using phrases she actually says, like "are you alright?" And then tried to distract her from the event by getting her to dance. She loves to dance. I kept her in my room for about 15 mns after this, and then took her back to her cage where I gave her treats and kept telling her "its ok". She seemed fine.
But when going back down the steps to her room, she started hissing, and beaked my ear. I have to take that as a warning she may bite....but wondered if she didn't want our time together in my room to end.
I have to admit, I am afraid of getting bit after seeing the bite she gave her owner. But I never show fear of her. I turn it into her fear, but let her know it is unacceptable to beak my ear by loudly saying "no!". "No bites". She immediately stops, but its hard to see eye pinning, and body language when she is on my shoulder. I simply wait a few seconds until I feel her body relax, then slowly proceed. All the while talking to her, and reassuring her.
Thank you so much everyone who responded to my post. I appreciate your help, and someone to listen.
 

Tazlima

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My grey came to me in a similar state.

To help her come out more on her own, can you "build out" her cage in some way?

Depending on the space, you could go horizontal with some kind of nearby play stand and maybe a rope or ladder to cross over to it, or vertical with a hanging structure above the cage.

There are beautiful habitat pictures posted all over this site. They're honestly pretty intimidating if you're on a tighter budget, but it doesn't have to be fancy for the bird to enjoy it. My house is small but has high ceilings, so my first buildout attempt was hanging a piece of powder-coated wire shelf from the ceiling. That formed a base that was easy to clip toys to, and I could change them regularly. (I know... the chains and clips aren't properly bird-safe - they've been replaced since this picture was taken).

Don't be surprised if she seems uninterested, or even afraid at first. My grey didn't touch her buildout for probably six or eight weeks. Now, though, she's all over it, and the extra climbing was both a workout, and a way to coax her out of her shell.

For a long time, though, she wasn't even ready for this. The ONLY thing she would play with was cardboard boxes. She'd chew them to pieces and didn't get nesty about it, so I gave her a steady stream of boxes, different shapes and sizes, just to get her doing SOMETHING. I'd put foot toys, paper, whatever I could think of inside the boxes to make it interesting for her, and she has slowly come out of her shell.

If you can find ONE thing he enjoys, that's your gateway to everything else.

I'm about to add a rope ladder from this buildout to the boing station in the opposite corner of the room, since she keeps walking between the two and I'm worried she'll get stepped on. ...my house is slowly turning into one big birdy gym.

Here's a picture of when I added a giant branch from the crepe myrtle in the yard. (She LOVED that). It won't win any beauty contests, but she definitely enjoys the ever-changing array of fun stuff over her cage. (Note the empty foraging toy - that one's her favorite and never stays full long).

Boo buildout.jpg
 
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Keetie!

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I love
My grey came to me in a similar state.

To help her come out more on her own, can you "build out" her cage in some way?

Depending on the space, you could go horizontal with some kind of nearby play stand and maybe a rope or ladder to cross over to it, or vertical with a hanging structure above the cage.

There are beautiful habitat pictures posted all over this site. They're honestly pretty intimidating if you're on a tighter budget, but it doesn't have to be fancy for the bird to enjoy it. My house is small but has high ceilings, so my first buildout attempt was hanging a piece of powder-coated wire shelf from the ceiling. That formed a base that was easy to clip toys to, and I could change them regularly. (I know... the chains and clips aren't properly bird-safe - they've been replaced since this picture was taken).

Don't be surprised if she seems uninterested, or even afraid at first. My grey didn't touch her buildout for probably six or eight weeks. Now, though, she's all over it, and the extra climbing was both a workout, and a way to coax her out of her shell.

For a long time, though, she wasn't even ready for this. The ONLY thing she would play with was cardboard boxes. She'd chew them to pieces and didn't get nesty about it, so I gave her a steady stream of boxes, different shapes and sizes, just to get her doing SOMETHING. I'd put foot toys, paper, whatever I could think of inside the boxes to make it interesting for her, and she has slowly come out of her shell.

If you can find ONE thing he enjoys, that's your gateway to everything else.

I'm about to add a rope ladder from this buildout to the boing station in the opposite corner of the room, since she keeps walking between the two and I'm worried she'll get stepped on. ...my house is slowly turning into one big birdy gym.

Here's a picture of when I added a giant branch from the crepe myrtle in the yard. (She LOVED that). It won't win any beauty contests, but she definitely enjoys the ever-changing array of fun stuff over her cage. (Note the empty foraging toy - that one's her favorite and never stays full long).

View attachment 379290
I love this set-up!
 

Destiny

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I kept her in my room for about 15 mns after this, and then took her back to her cage where I gave her treats and kept telling her "its ok". She seemed fine.

But when going back down the steps to her room, she started hissing, and beaked my ear. I have to take that as a warning she may bite....but wondered if she didn't want our time together in my room to end.
It sounds like you are already doing this, but I was going to suggest that you offer her some kind of special treat or wonderful reward whenever you bring her back to her cage. You want the cage to be a happy safe place to hang out, not a punishment. It sounds like she really enjoys spending time with you, so it might be difficult to find something she wants more than that, but if you can find a good reward it should help. That way, she won't be thinking about the good times ending but the awesome reward that is waiting when she reaches her cage.

I do something like this for my dogs when I put them in their outdoor kennel. They only get cow ears when they go in the kennel. And, boy, do they love cow ears. So kennel time is just the BEST time, as far as my dogs are concerned. They get so excited when I reach for the bag of cow ears, cause they know that means they get to go to the kennel and chew on a cow ear.

Parrots are deeper thinkers than your average dog, so they can be a little harder to convince, but the same basic principles apply. Try to make the cage a good place she wants to visit with you.

...

Another idea is to occasionally visit her cage when you have no intention of leaving her behind. Just hang out in the bird room together, then leave again. That will also help break the negative association with going down the stairs.
 

Darklotus555

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/5/19
Messages
87
My grey came to me in a similar state.

To help her come out more on her own, can you "build out" her cage in some way?

Depending on the space, you could go horizontal with some kind of nearby play stand and maybe a rope or ladder to cross over to it, or vertical with a hanging structure above the cage.

There are beautiful habitat pictures posted all over this site. They're honestly pretty intimidating if you're on a tighter budget, but it doesn't have to be fancy for the bird to enjoy it. My house is small but has high ceilings, so my first buildout attempt was hanging a piece of powder-coated wire shelf from the ceiling. That formed a base that was easy to clip toys to, and I could change them regularly. (I know... the chains and clips aren't properly bird-safe - they've been replaced since this picture was taken).

Don't be surprised if she seems uninterested, or even afraid at first. My grey didn't touch her buildout for probably six or eight weeks. Now, though, she's all over it, and the extra climbing was both a workout, and a way to coax her out of her shell.

For a long time, though, she wasn't even ready for this. The ONLY thing she would play with was cardboard boxes. She'd chew them to pieces and didn't get nesty about it, so I gave her a steady stream of boxes, different shapes and sizes, just to get her doing SOMETHING. I'd put foot toys, paper, whatever I could think of inside the boxes to make it interesting for her, and she has slowly come out of her shell.

If you can find ONE thing he enjoys, that's your gateway to everything else.

I'm about to add a rope ladder from this buildout to the boing station in the opposite corner of the room, since she keeps walking between the two and I'm worried she'll get stepped on. ...my house is slowly turning into one big birdy gym.

Here's a picture of when I added a giant branch from the crepe myrtle in the yard. (She LOVED that). It won't win any beauty contests, but she definitely enjoys the ever-changing array of fun stuff over her cage. (Note the empty foraging toy - that one's her favorite and never stays full long).

View attachment 379290
Wow!! I love what you've done! That is an excellent idea. Her cage is more rectangle, and has a "play top" but she rarely goes up there because its boring. If I hung things above it, to make it interesting, foraging, and fun....maybe she would come out of her shell more and start exploring. Thank you for sharing! I love the pic and ideas!!!
 

Darklotus555

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/5/19
Messages
87
It sounds like you are already doing this, but I was going to suggest that you offer her some kind of special treat or wonderful reward whenever you bring her back to her cage. You want the cage to be a happy safe place to hang out, not a punishment. It sounds like she really enjoys spending time with you, so it might be difficult to find something she wants more than that, but if you can find a good reward it should help. That way, she won't be thinking about the good times ending but the awesome reward that is waiting when she reaches her cage.

I do something like this for my dogs when I put them in their outdoor kennel. They only get cow ears when they go in the kennel. And, boy, do they love cow ears. So kennel time is just the BEST time, as far as my dogs are concerned. They get so excited when I reach for the bag of cow ears, cause they know that means they get to go to the kennel and chew on a cow ear.

Parrots are deeper thinkers than your average dog, so they can be a little harder to convince, but the same basic principles apply. Try to make the cage a good place she wants to visit with you.

...

Another idea is to occasionally visit her cage when you have no intention of leaving her behind. Just hang out in the bird room together, then leave again. That will also help break the negative association with going down the stairs.
Great advice!! I do visit the bird room and feed, water, clean cages, clean the floor, etc. I often go in just to check the birds through out the day. I usually provide a treat or two. I often dance with her, work on tricks, offer kisses, and rub her head (the little she allows). She usually will be on her cage door doing this. Im teaching her "turn around" and "wave hi". If im busy with another bird, she performs these over, and over to get me attention. (So cute).
When I have taken her from the room, and bring her back to her cage, she doesn't step up on her cage until she is ready. She will go from one shoulder to the other avoiding the cage. Her cage is very large, it has a swing, and a natural branch perch in it. She prefers to sit on her food bowl most of the day, maybe in the bottom of the cage door. I know this must hurt her poor feet. I think that is also a reason she likes being on me, lol. I just got her a wood perch that is flat on one side. I showed it to her, then touched her feet. I did this several times, hoping she would understand. I left it on a table about 2' away from her cage, and will continue the perch/foot thing and try to desensitize her until I can place it in her cage or at least outside the cage.
I recently got her nutri berries for parrots, and she loves them. So I will try to reserve them for returning to her cage as a reward. Thank you so much for the suggestion!!!
 

Ira

Sprinting down the street
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South Florida, U.S. of A.
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Ira R.
It sounds like you’re doing everything right, especially since you haven’t received a “fatal” blow from that beak.

But although it sounds crazy, it sounds like she needs to LEARN to play.

Do you ever feed her corn on the cob? It’s not the most nutritious thing you can give them, but it’s not harmful and my guy loves it. I use a cleaver to cut it into thin “slices.”

Anyway...

If she has a taste for it, take a piece, toss it on the floor of her cage, and go “Whee!”, almost like it’s a ball. I did this with all new fresh items introduced to my Amazon, although the food was in his bowl. I always acted real excited...”Mmmm, Archie! Food!” And he would think:

“What the hell is this idiot getting all excited about? I better check this out.”

Also, have you ever thrown a paper towel cylinder in there? It’s a great chew toy, and you never run out of them. My guy will drag that thing all over the cage, hanging from the top like a bat and swinging it around like a baseball bat.
 

Darklotus555

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/5/19
Messages
87
I LOVE your ideas. I used to get mini ears of corn to feed my mealy amazon but never cut it. That's a great idea. Sangria is SO fearful, I try to do everything slow and quiet kinda, lol. Today I was giving my keets Romaine lettuce, so decided to see who else might enjoy it. Sangria surprised me by eating it, not bring afraid of it.
This may sound dumb, or boring, but today she took my hand with her beak. She took each finger one by one turning my hand, then put her head under my palm, like "pet my head". So I did. She let me quickly then moved her head as if to say, I like it, but its odd feeling. It was the most precious moment with her. She let me pet her head a few times, even rub her beak. Its baby steps, but huge progress.
Im so in love with her.
Thank you for the suggestions, and encouragement. Ill give them a try!!
 

Ira

Sprinting down the street
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Ira R.
I LOVE your ideas. I used to get mini ears of corn to feed my mealy amazon but never cut it. That's a great idea. Sangria is SO fearful, I try to do everything slow and quiet kinda, lol. Today I was giving my keets Romaine lettuce, so decided to see who else might enjoy it. Sangria surprised me by eating it, not bring afraid of it.
This may sound dumb, or boring, but today she took my hand with her beak. She took each finger one by one turning my hand, then put her head under my palm, like "pet my head". So I did. She let me quickly then moved her head as if to say, I like it, but its odd feeling. It was the most precious moment with her. She let me pet her head a few times, even rub her beak. Its baby steps, but huge progress.
Im so in love with her.
Thank you for the suggestions, and encouragement. Ill give them a try!!
Wow! S/he’s warming up to you at lightning speed! And you obviously know not to push it! To take it VERY slowly.

Two points:

1) Just want to make sure you got my emphasis on making it a big deal, a game, a fun experience when introducing new fresh foods. (I assume you know the list of NEVER FEED items, which are poisonous.) Also, depending on the item, cut/chop into different sizes, configurations, etc. A bird could gobble down a ton of carrot slivers on a Thursday, and ignore chunks. And it’s the reverse for Friday!

2) My Grey loved to be scratched, and cradled in my arm or palm of my hand...on his back...like a baby. Greys are not known for this, Cockatoos are, but there you go anyway. (She passed from egg binding.)

With my YNA now, he’s a little over two, he loves to be scratched, and I’m making progress with him lying upside down in my palm. I’m not PETTING him on his back, that might come later. I’m just getting him used to the contact. Again, I don’t think ANY Amazon species are very open to this kind of handling, but when they trust you so much, it can happen.

What your guy did by taking the initiative and exploring your fingers like that is FANTASTIC.
 

Darklotus555

Strolling the yard
Joined
11/5/19
Messages
87
I have not been here in a while. Life just got so busy, and keeps getting busier. However, I read all replies and have to say they have all been incredibly helpful.
I have taught Sangria to play with toys!!! I used all of your great advice, and she now has accepted 3 new toys. Not only this, she took it a step farther. She NEVER goes up to her play top. One day I went into the bird room, and there she was sitting on the top corner of her cage. I asked her what she was doing....and she went up and started playing with a toy that had been hanging on the play top for years, and "played" with it. I praised her, and praised her!, and said "toy, yes! Toy!" She was so pleased with herself.
Still no bites yet. A few "beakings" as I call it. Like putting a bit of pressure on my ear, or pulling my hair, or slight nip on my fingers. Never hurts, no blood, but a definite negative action.
I just got another cag. And i have a lot of nesting birds, so I have been quite busy. Yesterday I went into the bird room and tried to give Sangria a treat. She took it and threw it down. I tried to give her another, again, spit it back at me, but twisted her head around and gently took my hand. I said "you want mommy, huh?" I let her step up, and was telling her I miss her too. I then told her I love her so much, and she reached up and kissed me smack on my lips, and 3 times!! This is the bird I have to beg and bribe to get a kiss from. I wanted to cry.....its those moments that are the greatest rewards for caring for birds.
 
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