Help caring for 5-6 week old Red-Crowned Amazons- Sad Update #10

[Lukewarm45]

Hello! I recently got these two siblings from a breeder last week. When I got them, I was told they were about 5-6 weeks old. So I'm guessing they're about 6-7 weeks by now. Unfortunately the seller was not able to wean them fully before I could pick them up, so she gave me some instructions on how to care for them and here I am! I just want to make sure that I'm doing the best I can for them and I'm seeking some advice or help to do so.

Right now, I'm feeding them at least 3 times a day with about 3-4 ml of formula per feeding (as instructed). But, as they're growing older, I figured it would be better to increase the amount they eat. My question is how much should I feed them? I recently read about the 10-12% rule to determine how much to feed depending on their body weight. Would this be 10-12% per feeding or throughout the day?

I also just weighed them, and they weigh about 105g and 150g respectively. The large difference in weight made me feel a bit funny, so I also was wondering if this is normal? If some birds just weigh less? She does look physically smaller in general, but I wasn't sure if that's because of her genes or if the ages I was told were funky. My concerns especially arose because she doesn't seem to have as much feathers on her head (though they are slowly coming in on her chest)

Lastly, I was planning on introducing a little bit of soft foods into their diet at around 8 weeks (as instructed via breeder). Is this alright to do for them? I saw some sources where they mentioned weaning at around 12 weeks and wasn't sure (though I do understand the process can vary a little bit).

Right now they're very active during feeding and pretty much sleep and walk around a bit. I'd appreciate any help I could get! Thank you! (The balder one is the smaller/lighter one!)

 

[expressmailtome]

Welcome! Amazons are not a genus that I have worked with, but @melissasparrots is an amazing breeder who may be able to help.

 

[Birdie Mama]

Also Brian may be of help, he always seems to have babies around

@BrianB

 

[melissasparrots]

At this point, you really need a vet. Their weight should be much higher than it currently is. One of the babies looks like it was plucked by a parent or older bird. This isn't usually much of a problem because the feathers will likely grow back eventually. I would think those babies should be getting around 20-40cc per feeding three times a day at this point. 3-4cc is drastically under feeding. Even if their weight is accurate, they should be getting at least 10cc three times a day. If the weight you gave is correct, they are super skinny. That said, you should NOT rush out and stuff them with food in response to reading this. They will need to have their weight slowly brought up. If you stuff them after a few days of starvation, their body might not be able to process the food and it may just sit in their crop and grow a bunch of bacteria. If it was me, I'd make sure they are reasonably warm. A temperature in the 80's F would be a starting point. They shouldn't need it that warm based on their feather growth, but if they are starving, they will might need a little more warmth.
I would start out giving them a few 5cc meals that are a little on the soupy side but not watery just to bring up hydration. Do not try to give them just water or formula as thin as water because they will likely aspirate. Once you can clearly see that they are fully digesting 5cc of somewhat thin formula within a couple of hours, thicken it up and slowly increase the amount fed over the course of a few days. Watch the temperature of formula and make sure it is the 100-108 degree range. What you read is correct, they should on average take about 10% of their body weight at each feeing. As they approach their first flight, their digestion may slow down. These birds really should be nearing their first flight if the age given is correct and they should be going through a phase of losing weight. But, if your scale is correct, they are WAY too low and if you've only been feeding them 3-4cc 3 times a day, they are drastically under fed. In terms of ambient temperature, I said keep them in the 80's but watch their body language. If they shiver a little bit, bring it up a few degrees. If they are snuggling together, but not panting or shivering, they are probably about right. If they are laying far apart, sprawled out and/or panting, they might be a little hot. Its hard to tell what temp they should be at since their body condition is so low. Definitely get them a vet appointment Monday. Actually, skip that, just drive them to a vet that knows birds on Monday. Tomorrow would be better if you happen to have a bird vet nearby that is open.

 

[Lukewarm45]

I see, unfortunately this is what I was afraid of. I'll definitely take them to a vet for sure. I already started upping their dosage a little bit, and I'll be sure to check for the consistency. I do typically keep the temperature around 105 degrees. I know you said to slowly up the amount of food, but do you think I should only stick to formula and try to hold off a little on introducing soft foods? Is formula enough to keep up with nutrition? I'll ask the vet as well of course, but I'm just a little nervous and am asking anything I can.

And I do keep the room temperature between 82-88 degrees (can fluctuate throughout the day). So far they don't seem to be shivering or panting so I'll take that as a good sign. Thank you so much for your help, I just felt something was off but I wasn't sure as I'm new to caring for them at this age. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated. Thank you again!

 

[melissasparrots]

I see, unfortunately this is what I was afraid of. I'll definitely take them to a vet for sure. I already started upping their dosage a little bit, and I'll be sure to check for the consistency. I do typically keep the temperature around 105 degrees. I know you said to slowly up the amount of food, but do you think I should only stick to formula and try to hold off a little on introducing soft foods? Is formula enough to keep up with nutrition? I'll ask the vet as well of course, but I'm just a little nervous and am asking anything I can.

And I do keep the room temperature between 82-88 degrees (can fluctuate throughout the day). So far they don't seem to be shivering or panting so I'll take that as a good sign. Thank you so much for your help, I just felt something was off but I wasn't sure as I'm new to caring for them at this age. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated. Thank you again!

You only really need to hand-feed them formula. But, at this age, you should also have a bowl of pellets, a few seeds and lots of veggies for them to graze on or just pick at. If they are still in a brooder, you can just scatter some pellets on the floor and make sure to clean it all up a couple times a day. They aren't really approaching weaning age, but they are definitely at the age where they should be learning about adult food. They will waste most of it, but they need the time to learn by experimenting with it. To be clear, when I say soft food, I don't mean human baby veggies that can be put in a syringe. I mean actual food the birds eat on their own like grown ups. I don't see any reason to hold them back on the weaning process just because they are skinny. A good transition food is cooked soft and mushy sweet potato with a little bit of cooked soft rice, quinoa and beans, and a small amount of mashed banana mixed in. Give them a hand-feeding of formula and then put a bowl of that sweet potato mix within easy reach in the brooder and walk away. A lot of babies will be curious and wanting to at least experiment with some adult food right after taking a hand-feeding. I feed that same mix to my adult birds just because amazons tend to run low on vitamin A. But, its also a good food to introduce babies to eating on their own and fairly nutrient dense.
I sincerely hope your scale is wrong. Make sure it's a true gram scale and not some kitchen spring scale weighing in ounces that you are converting to grams. Those can be way off. If the weight is accurate, then you have some complications to weaning in terms of trying to get weight on a bird during a time when they normally want to loose weight and start flying. Your best bet is probably to always have adult foods to graze on so they don't miss out on their natural opportunity to learn about adult food. Also, when they approach the age to fly, I would double up on safety and definitely not clip their wings until they have been weaned for several weeks. Clipping flight feathers would just complicate and already complicated weaning process.
I normally don't put water in the cage until the babies are a little older, but considering the possible hydration issues, if you can figure out a way to do it without having the babies dump it over continually, that might be good.
In terms of amount to feed, I'd use their digestion time as a guide. If you give 5cc and their crops are flat within 2-3 hours, that is a very good sign that you can increase the amount fed until it takes about 4-6 hours to digest. Once their crop is mostly flat, feed them again. Make sure they empty out at least once a day (usually over night). Otherwise, you can potentially feed them 4-5 times a day. In fact, given their weight, and low amount fed recently, multiple small meals might be good as you slowly increase the amount fed. Most babies of this age will take around 3 hand-feedings that take about 6-8 hours to fully digest. But, in your case, I'd be worried about slow crop from over stuffing them. I'd trend toward smaller meals more often and when you are able to feed around 8-12% of their body weight, that should be completely through them in 8 hours. If it takes longer, you need a vet immediately.

 

[Lukewarm45]

You only really need to hand-feed them formula. But, at this age, you should also have a bowl of pellets, a few seeds and lots of veggies for them to graze on or just pick at. If they are still in a brooder, you can just scatter some pellets on the floor and make sure to clean it all up a couple times a day. They aren't really approaching weaning age, but they are definitely at the age where they should be learning about adult food. They will waste most of it, but they need the time to learn by experimenting with it. To be clear, when I say soft food, I don't mean human baby veggies that can be put in a syringe. I mean actual food the birds eat on their own like grown ups. I don't see any reason to hold them back on the weaning process just because they are skinny. A good transition food is cooked soft and mushy sweet potato with a little bit of cooked soft rice, quinoa and beans, and a small amount of mashed banana mixed in. Give them a hand-feeding of formula and then put a bowl of that sweet potato mix within easy reach in the brooder and walk away. A lot of babies will be curious and wanting to at least experiment with some adult food right after taking a hand-feeding. I feed that same mix to my adult birds just because amazons tend to run low on vitamin A. But, its also a good food to introduce babies to eating on their own and fairly nutrient dense.
I sincerely hope your scale is wrong. Make sure it's a true gram scale and not some kitchen spring scale weighing in ounces that you are converting to grams. Those can be way off. If the weight is accurate, then you have some complications to weaning in terms of trying to get weight on a bird during a time when they normally want to loose weight and start flying. Your best bet is probably to always have adult foods to graze on so they don't miss out on their natural opportunity to learn about adult food. Also, when they approach the age to fly, I would double up on safety and definitely not clip their wings until they have been weaned for several weeks. Clipping flight feathers would just complicate and already complicated weaning process.
I normally don't put water in the cage until the babies are a little older, but considering the possible hydration issues, if you can figure out a way to do it without having the babies dump it over continually, that might be good.
In terms of amount to feed, I'd use their digestion time as a guide. If you give 5cc and their crops are flat within 2-3 hours, that is a very good sign that you can increase the amount fed until it takes about 4-6 hours to digest. Once their crop is mostly flat, feed them again. Make sure they empty out at least once a day (usually over night). Otherwise, you can potentially feed them 4-5 times a day. In fact, given their weight, and low amount fed recently, multiple small meals might be good as you slowly increase the amount fed. Most babies of this age will take around 3 hand-feedings that take about 6-8 hours to fully digest. But, in your case, I'd be worried about slow crop from over stuffing them. I'd trend toward smaller meals more often and when you are able to feed around 8-12% of their body weight, that should be completely through them in 8 hours. If it takes longer, you need a vet immediately.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate all your help, I'll sure to follow these instructions very carefully. I had forgotten to mention that during the week I've had them so far, I had been feeding them a little more than what the seller had said. Not so much extra, but they've been eating about 6-7 cc each feeding and their crops have typically emptied (from what I noticed) in about 4-5 hours. So when I feed them tomorrow I'm gonna keep a more careful eye on how long it takes exactly. Thank you again!

 

[SumitaSinh]

Please keep us updated. All the best for your journey

 

[Tyrion]

To the site ..best of luck with your babies

 

[Lukewarm45]

Hello,
I am sad to update that they both did not make it. Last week soon after I had posted, I had made an appointment for that Monday at the Vet. Sunday night both were eating well, their crops were flattening out at a good pace and they both were active. On Monday morning, the larger one had passed away. The younger one had her crop still semi full and was very weak. I had taken it to the vet earlier than my appointment, where the doctor said there wasn't much else to do and to try to give it an electrolyte solution. However, by the time I got home, she had passed away in my arms.

I apologize for the late update, I was feeling very distraught the whole week. Thank you everyone for your help.

 

[Tyrion]

So sorry for your loss

 

[expressmailtome]

I am sorry for your loss.

 

[Lukewarm45]

Thank you all for the sympathies.

 

[iamwhoiam]

So sorry for your loss.