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Handling conditioning

Atomiklan

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Ok so I know I have asked this before in some sense. Lately Emma and Charlie (mainly Charlie) have been quite scared of me. I have had to catch them a few times for various reasons including a nail trim recently, but I actually attribute this behavior more to less daily hands on interaction. At the very beginning I was actively working every day with them for hours on end with special emphasis on getting them comfortable with my hands. Over time I shifted to a more hands off training cycle. This was partly due to the arrival of Lada, but more so due to the fact that I felt I had reached a point of sufficient trust between us. The training at that point then shifted more towards conditioning them more to their environment, ie where they can and can not perch, fly etc. I have essentially been giving them a lot more freedom outside the cage thinking this would encourage additional trust however I believe it has had the opposite effect and actually encouraged a bit more independence and forgetfulness... :)

Ok the information above is semi important, but not directly related to the question at hand. I am curious how you think regular handlings will help. If consistent and gentle, I cant imagine it will have a negative impact. I noticed a shift during the few times that I did need to handle them that with each time, the experience became easier and seemed less stressful for them. This led me to wonder if regular handlings could actually reinforce the fact that there is nothing to fear from these encounters. This will of course make routines such as nail trimmings, etc much easier and less stressful for all parties. I feel this type of training is regularly employed with larger species and therefore should translate equally well to finches. The problem seems to be a mental wall among the community that "finches cannot do this", "finches cannot do that", "finches cannot be tamed", etc. Seems this is the only potential issue with this thought process. Now I do acknowledge that with finches there is an added danger due to their size, but with care and consistency, I feel I can foster a stronger bond with both of them. I look forward to everyone's thoughts on the subject.
 
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expressmailtome

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Atomiklan

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Well surprisingly I have not heard any feedback on this positive or negative. Considering the current state of the relationship between myself and C&E I have decided to use this opportunity to at least give this idea a try. I get the feeling it has not been specifically done before in the past so it should be interesting to see how things go. I will monitor their behavior towards me each day closely and if I sense any deterioration I will immediately cease the training. The idea (as crazy as it sounds) is to gently capture and handle each finch for a few minutes each day. The goal is to further bridge the gap with them by giving them a sense of assurance and is NOT intended to provide a scenario in which they feel they have no escape. I feel I can monitor and prevent this by observing their behavior before and after each encounter. ie their stress level and apprehensiveness near me. So far I have not seen any negative trends. Both have been handled a few times for 3 - 5 minutes at a time over the last few days and not only are the interactions becoming calmer for the selected finch, but the observer is now calm as well. Immediately post interaction, there are no obvious signs of shock such as a frozen stance or panic upon release. They simply go back to being C&E and play like normal close by. Sometimes very close by. There is still MUCH work to be done, but I wanted to stress that so far, the interactions appear to be positive. I know this experiment is VERY unconventional which is why I want to assure everyone I am doing my best to monitor them as closely as possible. I love my finches and would never wish to subject them to any discomfort.
 

finchly

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Some of the minors on here have tamed smaller birds. Maybe it is the title that puts them off? I don't know. I thought you'd hear from someone, and I am sure you''re tired of hearing from me!

I agree with you that frequent handling is the key. Privately I've thought that's why kids are successful; they have the bird in their room and handle it 5-10 times in an afternoon, whereas adults might do it 3x over a whole day.

Consider holding seed in the palm of your other hand if possible, or millet.

I was handling the canary babies (the ones that are juvies now, not the nestlings) and left town for a week, which was their fledging week, and now they do not want to be held. I tried each of them a few days ago and one 'freezes' as if panicked (he remained this way for a second even after I put him in the cage) but the other 2 were ok with being held/stroked once caught. debating now whether to continue this or not, as all will be sold eventually.

I think I've already mentioned that I have a friend who routinely tames her finches, societies being her main ones. These aren't babies, they're adults that she starts with. She said just handle them a lot. She's even got them doing commercials now. Go figure.
 

JLcribber

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This led me to wonder if regular handlings could actually reinforce the fact that there is nothing to fear from these encounters.
Well of course. It's called conditioning. I have no idea what level a finch can get to but it's not going to be like other parrots because a finch is not a parrot.
 

Atomiklan

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Good to hear and I agree. Thank you both for responding. I highly respect and value your opinions and always appreciate it when you guys respond!
 

MommyBird

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Atomiklan

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Read over both of those and I agree for the most part. I think where the idea came in is desensitization seems to work with Finches only up to a point. There appeared to be a wall when dealing with adult finches. I'm not disagreeing with you or the links and still don't know for sure whether I will even continue with these sessions. I may try just a few more just to see if any additional trends form before deciding whether to continue or abandon them. So far everything seems to be going well, but I am treading VERY carefully. Thank you for the additional information. Those links reinforce the reasons I was hesitant at first to consider this.
 

finchly

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Don't abandon too early (unless you decide it is not good for them). They take a lot longer than we expect to become comfortable with new things/situations.
 

Atomiklan

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Meh not sure if I am going to continue. They may be improving sightly while handling, but the capture portion I think is too stressful especially with Charlie. Emma is pretty calm both capture and handling, but Charlie seems to not be reacting as well with time. He is getting more vocal. I think it may be time to abandon this experiment. I may be reinforcing predator prey mentality and that is NOT good. Well its true... finches have a tough training wall. Back to basics and proven methods at this point.
 
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