Hand shy - Taming - Treats?

[Aequa]

Hi there, recently adopted a Princess from a poor situation. She is reasonably tame but very hand shy... The employees at the pet shop were just grabbing her from the cage and it's pretty clear she wasn't originally hand raised incredibly well.

Currently I am using a approach and retreat situation to show her hands aren't mean as I am yet to discover a high value food! This approach is very slow and bound not to work when it comes to further training such as step up.
I'm reading as much as I can but of course want some real life experiences too

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

Offer a closed fist for step ups. Sometimes if they don't see the grasping fingers, they aren't as afraid. You could start using a hand held perch for step ups. No fingers or hands to scare her. As for high value treats, have you looked up what her species eats in the wild? You could offer one of the seasonal foods that would be limited in the wild as a treat and get her addicted to the food treat.

My really shy and afraid cockatiels will always cave for little slivers of apple.

 

[Aequa]

I find she prefers a finger to the whole hand. The more hand she can see the more unlikely it is that she will put up a foot (she's a very good little bird, she has already stepped up onto my finger a few times!!). The handheld perch is one that has worked super well. She will sit on the perch much longer than a finger.
As for treats, some are difficult as she is picky about what she eats. I've tried a few common ones and a few I've read princesses like. I'll research some they like in the wild, I'd not thought of that. Hopefully I'll find something! She's a really good girl and deserves the reward. Really proud of how far she has come already!

 

[CeddysMum]

Ceddy came to me totally untamed. I found that she hated learning to step up on the hand but very easily took to stepping up on my forearm(s) instead. Nearly 5 years down the track and she's much more comfortable with my hands but still prefers the forearm given the chance. Maybe try that approach?

 

[Aequa]

We have, along with shoulders and heads, she's still nervous with it as she is with a finger. It's only really hands - whole hands - she hates. The petshop did often trick her into being grabbed by distracting her and what not, unfortunately they were very rough. I've had to grab her a few times here upon getting into trouble and she is already a tad better with it. I know it will take a lot of time, I'm just looking at as many different tactics as possible to find one that fits her well. I think she deserves that much. Was it mostly time and repetition with Ceddy, Astrid?

 

[Monica]

When I got Jayde, she was terrified of leaving her cage, terrified of hands *UNLESS* she was receiving scritches, wouldn't take treats but *OH* so badly wanted human attention and affection! @webchirp had her for 6 months before me, and I seriously do not understand why Jayde would not warm up to her. Webchirp very clearly loves her birds and dotes on them so much!

Now? Well, it's been 7 months since I adopted her and Jayde steps up after I 'baby talk' to her first, will fly to my hand, arm or shoulder from her cage, willingly goes to other women as long as they sweet talk to her first (if that happens, I'm chopped liver! I kid you not, she is an attention whore!!!! And I love it! ) and has started to fly from my shoulder back to her cage, or from my shoulder to a different cage (she has recently taken to climbing to the top of it as well if I stand near it with her on me) and then back to her cage. She's finally getting comfortable enough that she doesn't have to be on me or her cage *all* the time!

She still bites and nips, but far less often now and not with the same intensity as she did when she came here. She used to bite to draw blood, but now nips more as a warning - as well as giving kisses! Don't know why she has decided that her kisses must be somewhat painful... lol She used to only allow one hand to pet her head but she's now comfortable with me using both my hands to pet her - well, kind of! I just love her fluffy face!!!!


When I first got her, I just wheeled her cage around the house so she could be "with" me without having to be on me or leaving the safety of her cage. One day shortly after getting her I was sitting on the floor (I don't remember why) next to her cage when she came down to investigate. She kept climbing down, then back up, climbing down another side with an inquisitive look, then scampering back up, etc. Finally, she took the plunge and stepped up onto my shoulder. She was *SO* happy! Jayde was moving her head all about, making a bunch of happy noises, occasionally preening me. So, since she was willing to climb to my shoulder from her cage, I continued doing this for a few weeks before asking her to step onto my arm instead of my shoulder. She still preferred stepping to my shoulder, because if she got onto my arm, she would make a mad dash to my shoulder. Once she started getting comfortable with that, I started asking her to step up onto my hand first. I learned that if I ask for a straight up step up, she'll bite/nip. If I sweet talk to her first and "butter" her up, she is more willing to step up onto my hand, then go for my shoulder.


Did all that without using food or treats as a reward. Now though, she'll actually take treats without biting and quite gently, too, might I add, but I still haven't trained her using treats!



I haven't worked with princess parrots before, but what little I know about them, I imagine that they would appreciate a calm and slow approach.

 

[Aequa]

Wow, thanks Monica, Jayde sounds awesome! I think her reward was all the attention Gracie, as we have now decided to call her, isn't so intent on attention, touching is a big no. But, I will keep going as I am, you give me hope!! With any luck we will find a yummy treat to encourage her.

In the meantime, she loves just to sit and watch everyone. She is happiest out of the cage. Today she even flew to me for safety from my evil conure who managed to get in the room

 

[Wayne361]

Put various food in her food bowl....see what she eats first. As long it isnt her pellet base diet, withhold the one she takes first as her training only treat. I would start to target train first. After she is target trained you can start to target on and off hand to get her used to the hands and show they pose no harm. If she is fears hands quite a bit then target on and off a hand held perch.....move your hand slightly down perch very gradually. Read bird to observe that you dont overstep her comfort zone.
Once hand is near end of hand held perch and she is comfortable....start targetting on and off hand using verbal cue "step up" each time she steps up. Once she is comfortable with this...start extinguishing the target stick and food rewards. Going forward make sure that there is a postive outcome to stepping up (in birds eyes) and bird will step up 100 percent of the time in the future....bird realizes good things happen with stepping up.

Hope this helps,

Wayne

 

[Jackie]

My Louie was/kinda is (a pinch) terrified of hands. It took me several years to get him not to be scared of my fingers but I must say I made several mistakes along the way and his hormones were going crazy.
The first thing I did that was a huge no no was tried/pushed to hard by to fast.
The second thing I did that I think broke the camels back was while I was preening him...I rubbed a feather I should not have not once but twice...I hurt my little baby accident!
The third I did was get angry with him for not being and doing what I wanted

What did work was...
Retired...he..he.. had more time and patience to love him and it took no time what so ever...
I paid and still do pay close attention to his body language.
I get his favorite toy so he can chew and keep himself busy when he gets to excited
I move very slowly with him
I let him make the moves
He still goes on my shoulder first but inches his way down to his toy than my fingers..
The last thing I do is when he bites by mistake I put him down for a minute and I do need to hide what he bite because he is scared when he calms down life is good and we cuddle.

With Louie I will always have to do the above and I have to remind myself constantly to watch his body language! If I rub a feather the wrong way...I will be back at square one...I do not want to take anything for granted with my babies!!!

 

[Aequa]

Thanks both of you. Gracie just really doesn't seem food orientated, nor does she enjoy attention other than just sitting near by. The only successful method I've tried is try and retreat. This means she is now happy for my hand to be near her but she doesn't understand then what I want her to do with stepping up, she steps up and I pretty much have to wait for her to step down. I have a feeling she doesn't understanding what she is doing right and is starting to step away from my finger instead. Someone did suggest continuing to ask her to step up to show her my hand only goes away after she steps up but that only panics her so I'm not doing that again.

Time-wise she is doing great but I try not to pay attention to time when I'm training animals and rather pay attention to them and when they are ready. She seems able to move to stepping up but we are just working on a reward. We are getting there! Both of your posts were really helpful!!

 

[Wayne361]

Thanks both of you. Gracie just really doesn't seem food orientated, nor does she enjoy attention other than just sitting near by. The only successful method I've tried is try and retreat. This means she is now happy for my hand to be near her but she doesn't understand then what I want her to do with stepping up, she steps up and I pretty much have to wait for her to step down. I have a feeling she doesn't understanding what she is doing right and is starting to step away from my finger instead. Someone did suggest continuing to ask her to step up to show her my hand only goes away after she steps up but that only panics her so I'm not doing that again.

Time-wise she is doing great but I try not to pay attention to time when I'm training animals and rather pay attention to them and when they are ready. She seems able to move to stepping up but we are just working on a reward. We are getting there! Both of your posts were really helpful!!

Withhold food for 3-4 hours and present a treat when offering food....

 

[Jackie]

Thanks both of you. Gracie just really doesn't seem food orientated, nor does she enjoy attention other than just sitting near by. The only successful method I've tried is try and retreat. This means she is now happy for my hand to be near her but she doesn't understand then what I want her to do with stepping up, she steps up and I pretty much have to wait for her to step down. I have a feeling she doesn't understanding what she is doing right and is starting to step away from my finger instead. Someone did suggest continuing to ask her to step up to show her my hand only goes away after she steps up but that only panics her so I'm not doing that again.

Time-wise she is doing great but I try not to pay attention to time when I'm training animals and rather pay attention to them and when they are ready. She seems able to move to stepping up but we are just working on a reward. We are getting there! Both of your posts were really helpful!!

Not paying attention to time was really hard for me! Louie will still not go up on my hand but will on my arm and shoulder. I just ignore my hands with him and when he is ready he plays with them...I am tickled pink with that! I do think in time he will step up on my hand...we are in no hurry!

You sound like you are on the right track and he is very lucky to have you as his mommy! Time is on you side..he...he...!

 

[222katie]

How did things go with Gracie? I’m in a similar situation with a conure that I recently acquired.

 

[Fuzzy]

It is probably going to take a lot of time and desensitization since she has been pairing hands with bad experiences like being caught. Instead you want to be pairing your hands with good experiences only and find a reinforcer that she will work for. Although she isn't food orientated, food is a primary reinforcer (unlearned) as all birds have to eat. If you wanted to pursue food as a reinforcer, notice what she goes for in the food bowl first. This will usually be her favourite item. Would she take that special something from your hands? Maybe try first thing just before breakfast. Does she like millet spray?

She is happiest out of the cage.

That's a great reinforcer! Would she step up onto a hand held perch so that you can take her out of the cage? Would she step up on your finger to take her out of the cage? To teach my Pionus, Kobe, to step up on a folded rope perch, I used to offer it to him to step up on, to come out of his night cage every morning. Reinforcer = to come out of the cage.

The handheld perch is one that has worked super well. She will sit on the perch much longer than a finger.

That's great that a handheld perch is working! What is the reinforcement for stepping up on the perch? If she does step up on your finger, be sure to have her step down again immediately. That way she is in control. Don't wait until she is visibly uncomfortable and starting to panic about how to get off because she will pair being on your finger with panic and discomfort. You can easily shape duration (the amount of time she is on your finger) later when she is fluent about stepping up and down off your finger.

My Amazon, Ollie, has a phobia about hands. It is the result of being caught up for meds every day in the 9 months before he came to live with me. He is food orientated (started with a huge palm nut and now he will work for small pieces of cashew) so I used food to teach him to step up on a hand held perch (it took 1.5 years to gradually progress to bringing him out of his cage, as he was cage bound). I used desensitization over 6 months to be able to give him a scritch which I never thought possible. 9 years later he still won't step up on my hand which is fine with me as it has never posed a problem, but it amazes me that I can put my hands really close to him (above him and behind him) and it doesn't worry him. I think I have proven that I am trustworthy. He is no longer cage bound - he is free all day and only sleeps in his cage.

 

[finchly]

This is a 6-year-old thread someone bumped up.
@Fuzzy that’s an excellent well-written response. Just wanted to add that when mine are hand shy, I turn around and stand with my shoulder in front of them. They’re much more apt to step onto a shoulder or a casualty stretch out upper arm.
Hubby and I have fun with it. “Stand still, he’s coming! He’s thinking about it, don’t move”

 

[expressmailtome]

How did things go with Gracie? I’m in a similar situation with a conure that I recently acquired.

This member has not visited the forum in almost five years, so you will not receive a response from her.

 

[Fuzzy]

This is a 6-year-old thread someone bumped up.

Oh well, perhaps this thread will help someone else.