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Hahns Macaw x Sun Conure Hybrid Wednesday Macawnure

flyzipper

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I had always thought of things like that as different colorations
In most discussions on the topic of avian "hybrids", it tends to focus on shared or differing genetics.

Colour can be misleading -- caiques, for example, look like simple colour variations, but they're actually 4 separate species.
 

Mizzely

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Ah, so like with cockatiels - grey, cinnamon, lutino, etc?

I had always thought of things like that as different colorations, not so much as I guess breeding a “mixed breed” (using dog terminology).
Well, dog breeds are over hundreds or thousands of years... Their color, coat, temperament, etc, all taken into account.

Many bird species have been in captivity and bred with any purpose less than a hundred years. Some may only be a few generations away from the wild.

So take a wolf, the dog's ancestor. If you breed out different color mutations, like black, white, brown, grey, you have the same thing we are doing with cockatiels and conures. It's mostly surface level changes that can be done within a generation or two.

To breed so that you know your litter will be full of fierce, loyal hunters, or domestic wolves you can trust around your kids or sheep, that's going to take a lot longer.

We took wolves and made them into beings to fit our unique ways of life, styles of fighting or hunting.

For parrots we are still stuck on color. We haven't bred for traits yet. And it will take decades or centuries to do that.
 

~Drini~

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Green-cheeked conures and their different colour mutations perhaps (cinnamon, pineapple, turquoise, yellow-sided, erc)?

That would apply to one definition of hybrid, varieties, but within the same species.
I think budgies would be a better example. I think you can say that there are 2 breeds of budgies: American and English. Same species but each have their own set of phenotypic differences and color mutations, although I don't know if I would consider "American" as much a breed as I would call it just any non-English budgie. English budgies are more selectively bred (and have more health issues).
 

AussieBird

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I think budgies would be a better example. I think you can say that there are 2 breeds of budgies: American and English. Same species but each have their own set of phenotypic differences and color mutations, although I don't know if I would consider "American" as much a breed as I would call it just any non-English budgie. English budgies are more selectively bred (and have more health issues).
I almost mentioned budgies, there is actually three "breeds".
Some one correct me if I am wrong but I thought canaries were one of the few birds with breeds?
 

Karearea

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Personally I would not call them breeds. The term "breed" is used for varieties of domesticated animals, which budgies are not. They are far too genetically similar to their wild relatives, even including english, hagoromo, crested, and any other varieties out there - domestication takes thousands of years, and parrots have only been bred in captivity for a little over a century. There ARE breeds of chickens, canaries, ducks, pigeons, and geese, though.

Just realized Mizzely made a post about this above mine. Oh well haha
 

haze

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Wow I did not know conures could breed with a macaw and produce fertile eggs. Very interesting.
 

expressmailtome

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It is more common with the mini macaws and the conures, but it is also possible for the large macaws as well. One member who has sadly passed away, @Welshanne , had a hybrid that was half blue and gold macaw and half patagonian conure.
 

WillowQ

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I’m not sure how they chose the dividing line between macaws and conures. It would be so interesting to know. Those are some beautiful beautiful birds.

I think a cross between a Quaker and a macaw would be lots and lots of fun. I know it’s not likely. But imagine a giant Quaker that literally builds apartment house nests.
 

expressmailtome

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I think a cross between a Quaker and a macaw would be lots and lots of fun. I know it’s not likely.
Until it happens I suppose that we will never know if it is actually possible or not. Macaws and conures are in the same tribe (arini), while quakers are not. I still remember the first galahtiel. Before it was accidentally bred, no one thought that that was possible, so truly who knows?
 

WillowQ

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I don’t expect it to really happen but I remember the Galah tiel. Those are kind of neat birds.
 

WillowQ

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Maybe a Quaker/ beebee parakeet? I can’t remember the phylogeny right now but those are closer.
 

HemlokHex

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Thanks to everyone who has recently liked and replied! I'll post some new pics after a friend comes for bird meds. I was going to take Wednesday for a baseline checkup, and suddenly a lorikeet that had a stroke landed on my plate, so he went to avian vet today.
Now a friend needs antibiotics for her conure... lucky I just got some!
This morning my budgie hen looked a bit fluffed and unhappy.... why do they all get sick at once?!!! :/
 

Monica

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This is just for my own curiosity (I will never breed, too many things to potentially go wrong), but the way ethical dog breeders put together two different breeders for a purpose bred mutt - ie health testing, genetic testing, etc - would that not be something possible in breeding hybrid birds? For example, if you have two well-bred birds, a sun conure and a Hahns, who have no health issues either in them or in their genetic line going back at least a couple generations, would it not be possible to breed a healthy hybrid?

Again, this is JUST my own curiosity, and using what I know about dogs breeding in relation to birds.
I understand purpose bred dog mixes. Then we also have the designer dogs. No purpose other than they're supposed to be unique but started because someone was trying to create a hypo-allergenic dog that wasn't straight poodle. A dog meant for service dog work.

The act of simply CREATING a hybrid has the potential to create health defects. I believe that some nanday x hahns hybrids may have birth defects. The sun conure x green cheek conure hybrids - many are born with foot deformities. These are first gen hybrids! Not all have the foot deformities, and it's possible for one clutch to have NO foot deformities and a second clutch ALL have it. It's really a crap shoot. Breeding different species of parrots together is more akin to breeding a lion and a tiger together... or a donkey and a zebra.


I don't really know much about chicken breeds... but your question may be more akin to breeding a rhode island red with a silkie.... or maybe a silver laced with a blue favacauna?


I think the definition of 'hybrid' for animals requires it to be between two different species -- anything else is just a mix.
There are many species with subspecies.... and breeding subspecies together also creates hybrids. This is known as intraspecies hybridization, as opposed to interspecies hybridization.



Our green cheek conures are a great example of intraspecies hybridization.... it's hard to pinpoint exactly what subspecies each individual green cheek comes from.... with how muddy some of their coloring is. A more well known one would be your eclectus parrots. It can be hard distinguishing which subspecies a female belongs to.... even harder with a male.



@HemlokHex I hope things are better!

I looked back through some of the old posts and it appears that some of the health issues were seen in at least 3rd or 4th gen hybrids of the hahns/sun/jenday hybrids. (unclear if there was also gold cap)

The breeder who bred the "conan conures" ended up dumping the flock off at a rescue. This is a direct quote from the rescue about the health of the birds....

Many of these birds have heart issues, irregular rhythms, murmurs and heart blocks. Some have feet/toe defects, one is missing an entire wing and one has no tongue, all born that way per the vet. Some have cere deformities with either enlarged or too small nares.
I'm not aware of any others that have bred multi-gen hybrids, nor how they were bred. I truly hope that all of the others out there are in fact healthy.
 
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