Grit?

[JapanBirdLover]

Hello all,
Two quick questions.
First, do zebra finches need grit? Reading conflicting opinions on the internet. The Petco Finch Care Sheet lists it in the shopping supplies for finches...

https://www.petco.com/content/petco...ervices/resource-center/caresheets/finch.html

Second, what do you all use for treats?

 

[Lady Jane]

Finches hull the seeds they eat so there is no need for grit. Doves eat whole seeds so they need the help of grit to digest them.

 

[Nikomania]

Did you just bring home some new babies?

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Finches hull the seeds they eat so there is no need for grit. Doves eat whole seeds so they need the help of grit to digest them.

Thank you for that info. I suspected as much. The pet stores in my area have all sorts of grit packets with pictures of finches and budgies but I’ll pass on those.
I trust the advice of people on this site more than the staff at the pet store.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Did you just bring home some new babies?

Well it has been about three months since I got the first zebra, and just one month since the second came to us. I’m trying change management to get them on to more fresh vegetables and not just seeds and millet.
Do you leave a millet spray in the cage continually?

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Thank you for that info. I suspected as much. The pet stores in my area have all sorts of grit packets with pictures of finches and budgies but I’ll pass on those.
I trust the advice of people on this site more than the staff at the pet store.

For clarity I’m not trashing the pet store staff, I’m sure they work very hard. It’s just that in most cases they know a lot about dogs and cats, but birds are something of a sideshow. In my area, at least. No offense to anyone working at a pet store!

 

[fashionfobie]

Grit is a non specific term so that is why you need to be careful not to just give it to any bird. Grit can include dirt grit that aids in digestion from some species. Some birds like chickens and doves eat dirt directly to aid them with this process. They will even eat small stones.

Since finches hull they do not need dirt grit. However calcium grit is important for laying hens. Look for products that have water soluble calcium sometime it is in a grit form. The birds eat it and drink. I offer a dish for my birds. They can make a choice if they want any.

Calcium deficiency can be found in captive birds. So make an informed choice.

I will also add that birds don't typically eat things like dirt grit if they don't need them. Birds can get an impacted crop, in a captive setting birds may play with or eat dirt grit obsessively. Mika behaviour is not a healthy sign. This could be an indication of a poor diet, poor mental stimulation or another underlying health problem.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Grit is a non specific term so that is why you need to be careful not to just give it to any bird. Grit can include dirt grit that aids in digestion from some species. Some birds like chickens and doves eat dirt directly to aid them with this process. They will even eat small stones.

Since finches hull they do not need dirt grit. However calcium grit is important for laying hens. Look for products that have water soluble calcium sometime it is in a grit form. The birds eat it and drink. I offer a dish for my birds. They can make a choice if they want any.

Calcium deficiency can be found in captive birds. So make an informed choice.

I will also add that birds don't typically eat things like dirt grit if they don't need them. Birds can get an impacted crop, in a captive setting birds may play with or eat dirt grit obsessively. Mika behaviour is not a healthy sign. This could be an indication of a poor diet, poor mental stimulation or another underlying health problem.

Thank you. Right now they have a container of grit - I think it’s dirt grit - in their cage, in addition to a container of crushed shellfish shellfish shells, which will be the calcium grit. Please understand that I’m in Asia and everything is kind of labeled differently here so it’s hard to tell what is what,
Anyway, they totally ignore both containers. Don’t even nibble. So I’m thinking I should remove both containers and use a liquid calcium supplement in their water.
BTW they also have a cuttlefish bone in their cage, but they don’t seem to touch that either.

 

[fashionfobie]

Thank you. Right now they have a container of grit - I think it’s dirt grit - in their cage, in addition to a container of crushed shellfish shellfish shells, which will be the calcium grit. Please understand that I’m in Asia and everything is kind of labeled differently here so it’s hard to tell what is what,
Anyway, they totally ignore both containers. Don’t even nibble. So I’m thinking I should remove both containers and use a liquid calcium supplement in their water.
BTW they also have a cuttlefish bone in their cage, but they don’t seem to touch that either.

They won't need it every day. They will eat tiny little bits when they need it. It will make up a very very very small % of what they are eating. I would leave the calcium options. For my finches, and I only have males, I still leave a calcium choice. Only a small pinch in a designated dish. I clean the dish and replace it every few days or if it was pooped on. You don't need to keep the dirt grit.

I do have a potted plant in my cage with my birds. Sometimes they hop around on the dirt and pick up little wood bits and carry them away.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

They won't need it every day. They will eat tiny little bits when they need it. It will make up a very very very small % of what they are eating. I would leave the calcium options. For my finches, and I only have males, I still leave a calcium choice. Only a small pinch in a designated dish. I clean the dish and replace it every few days or if it was pooped on. You don't need to keep the dirt grit.

I do have a potted plant in my cage with my birds. Sometimes they hop around on the dirt and pick up little wood bits and carry them away.

great advice, thank you. There are still more things I need to do to make a better environment for the girls, but I’m solving things one at a time!

 

[UrbanSylvanus]

great advice, thank you. There are still more things I need to do to make a better environment for the girls, but I’m solving things one at a time!

Keep in mind that I have a Java finch (bunchou) but this may help.
I give my little lady mixed seeds with a pinch of crushed shell and I think she eats it, since I don't find it in the bottom of her cage or in her dish.
Since I'm afraid that isn't enough for her, I give her supplements in her water that my vet reccomended to me called Nekton S. You can find it on Amazon or Rakuten easily enough. I personally don't buy the bottle, an online bird shop sells a month's worth in individual packets, one packet for 50ml of water. I reccomend this if it's only for 2 finches as even the smaller bottle starts to get clumpy and you eventually throw away a third of it :/
I don't give her grit or the mineral block.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Keep in mind that I have a Java finch (bunchou) but this may help.
I give my little lady mixed seeds with a pinch of crushed shell and I think she eats it, since I don't find it in the bottom of her cage or in her dish.
Since I'm afraid that isn't enough for her, I give her supplements in her water that my vet reccomended to me called Nekton S. You can find it on Amazon or Rakuten easily enough. I personally don't buy the bottle, an online bird shop sells a month's worth in individual packets, one packet for 50ml of water. I reccomend this if it's only for 2 finches as even the smaller bottle starts to get clumpy and you eventually throw away a third of it :/
I don't give her grit or the mineral block.

That’s interesting, thank you. I have a mineral block (Endo) which they use as a step but never see them pecking it... I have seen Nekton S on Amazon but right now I have a cheaper brand. I might try Nekton. I put some crushed shells (bore-ko?) in with the mixed seeds, but haven’t checked whether they are eating. Maybe I need to crush them finer.
Anyway thanks for the advice!

 

[UrbanSylvanus]

That’s interesting, thank you. I have a mineral block (Endo) which they use as a step but never see them pecking it... I have seen Nekton S on Amazon but right now I have a cheaper brand. I might try Nekton. I put some crushed shells (bore-ko?) in with the mixed seeds, but haven’t checked whether they are eating. Maybe I need to crush them finer.
Anyway thanks for the advice!

Yeah, I never see any resources (for Javas at least) that say that they need the extra minerals, in fact it's not reccomended since that's way too much sodium for them.

Yeah I used to have a cheaper brand I found on Amazon but decided to go Nekton after seeing a lot of great reviews for it, and it being vet reccomended sealed the deal. If you're interested in it I can DM you a link to the individual packed stuff.

Also yep, bore-ko is what I use as well (though I've seen around 3 brands that sell it lol.) I haven't really looked to see if anyone grinds them down for zebras (buncho are larger with more powerful beaks so my finch seems fine with the current size) but it could be a good idea!

And it's no problem! It's nice to see I can help a fellow bird owner in Japan

Edit: I almost forgot! If you're unsure if they're getting enough nutrition, fresh greens and fruits may help. I've heard bean sprout (toumyou) and mustard leaf? (komatsuna) are great for finches. As for fruits it looks like any parrot safe fruits are all good for finches as well.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Yeah, I never see any resources (for Javas at least) that say that they need the extra minerals, in fact it's not reccomended since that's way too much sodium for them.

Yeah I used to have a cheaper brand I found on Amazon but decided to go Nekton after seeing a lot of great reviews for it, and it being vet reccomended sealed the deal. If you're interested in it I can DM you a link to the individual packed stuff...

You think I should remove the mineral block? Looking at ingredients it seems to be high in salt. Here it is on Amazon Japan, many apologies to those who don’t read Japanese:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/エクセル-ミニミニ塩土-3個入り/dp/B00IMUCN64/

And this is the dirt grit I also have. They call it “Mineral Sand”

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ハイペット-ミネラルサンド-200g/dp/B0043BFLBK

So I guess I should remove the dirt grit and mineral block, let them get their calcium from the cuttlefish bone and crushed shells.

BTW they really LOVE bean sprouts and pea sprouts! The only problem is they drop so much through the bottom mesh it gets wasted! Mustard seed they peck at but don’t go crazy like they do for bean sprouts.

Edit yes please send me a link to the Nekton S, sounds worth a try. I heard of this just recently when I donated some from Amazon Wishlist to the Tsubasa bird rescue group in Saitama. Have you ever been there? Much closer to you than me. They have a pair of large macaws needing a foster home... I would love that so much but couldn’t suggest it to my wife...

 

[UrbanSylvanus]

You think I should remove the mineral block? Looking at ingredients it seems to be high in salt. Here it is on Amazon Japan, many apologies to those who don’t read Japanese:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/エクセル-ミニミニ塩土-3個入り/dp/B00IMUCN64/

And this is the dirt grit I also have. They call it “Mineral Sand”

https://www.amazon.co.jp/ハイペット-ミネラルサンド-200g/dp/B0043BFLBK

So I guess I should remove the dirt grit and mineral block, let them get their calcium from the cuttlefish bone and crushed shells.

BTW they really LOVE bean sprouts and pea sprouts! The only problem is they drop so much through the bottom mesh it gets wasted! Mustard seed they peck at but don’t go crazy like they do for bean sprouts.

Edit yes please send me a link to the Nekton S, sounds worth a try. I heard of this just recently when I donated some from Amazon Wishlist to the Tsubasa bird rescue group in Saitama. Have you ever been there? Much closer to you than me. They have a pair of large macaws needing a foster home... I would love that so much but couldn’t suggest it to my wife...

That may be best, even though I don't think the cuttlebone is necessary either but if they're using it for other uses (like a perch) then it wouldn't hurt to have it there.

Koyuki doesn't really eat the mustard seed per se, she more crunches down on the stalks and drinks the juices, leaving the fibrous parts behind. It feels like she isn't eating it but at least she's getting the nutrients? She's not really interested in the leafy parts which leads me think she likes the crunch.

Here it is!
Amazon | 鳥類総合ビタミン剤 ネクトンS NEW分包タイプ 30日分（約1ヶ月分） | とりっぴー | ヘルスケア 通販
And I've heard of Tsubasa, unfortunately I live in the more southern part of Tokyo so it's pretty far from where I live. Shame too, I would have liked to volunteer at some point.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Just been out of town so I didn’t get s chance to thank you properly, but thanks for the link. I ordered one pack to give it a try.

By the way I think Koyuki is a great name for your Java!

In the end I’ve now removed the grit but kept the crushed shell, which they seem to eat just a little. They also have the cuttlefish bone. I removed the vitamin block too.
And I when I tried swapping the position of the food trays they are taking much more vegetables now, rather than just seeds. Great.

 

[Noah's_Birds]

Buy fine shell grit, finch charcoal, cuttlebone and bake some eggshells, and they all will provide ample levels of grit and calcium. Finches need calcium, especially for healthy egg production and bone growth, otherwise your birds will become 'crippled' from calcium deficiency
YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH GRIT FYI!
Cheers