Green Cheek Aggression Issues

[Spencerk]

Hey everyone,

Me and my wife have been having issues with our GCC for the past few months.

He is around a year and a half old, we've had him since he was weaned. He has always been a little aggressive to me, greatly preferring my wife.
Since coming home, he has only seriously bit her a few times, and he never bites strangers (or even nip). In contrast, I can't go more than a few days without him making me bleed.

He would have little flare-ups where he would act aggressively to me, but they always went away and we attributed it to hormones.

Two months ago we brought home a 2nd bird, a baby Quaker.

Our GCC's response was instant and mostly stuck around. He doesn't love or hate the baby (they fight a little, he acts dominantly toward her, but they preen and bond), and still loves my wife, but he has gotten much much worse to me.
He will become aggressive randomly, strutting and acting tough, and his response to any sort of punishment or reprimand is to go into a rage. When he enters these aggressive fits, it is usually because I try to interact with him (either to try and give him attention or to feed him, put him away, etc).
Once he is in attack mode, he will charge and try to bite feet, hands, anything that he can get a hold of and he will draw blood if given the chance. I started toweling him when this happens, but he has become extremely fearful of the towel and at this point, it is making things worse.

His personality has changed in other ways as well. He has always been a velcro bird, but it seems like he has gotten a little more independent.
He used to be extremely excited when me and my wife got home, or got him up in the morning. Now he is excited to get out, but isn't excited about us, and instead struts around on top his cage for a few minutes.
He also hasn't really played with us much since the personality change.

Another thing worth mentioning is that the new bird doesn't like my wife and loves me. So my wife spends about the same amount of time with our GCC, while i have been dividing my time between them.
It seems to me like my GCC just doesn't like me anymore.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Leih]

Hi there! For some reason your post isn't showing up in the new posts feed, hopefully this bumps it!

To me at a glance it sounds like he may have chosen your wife as his mate and you're his competition. But I'm really not experienced enough so I'll tag people who I get usually good advice from. @DoubleTake @webchirp @Mizzely @Monica I'm sure there are more, but that's a good start. They'll likely want more info about his cage and setup, out of cage activities, etc.

 

[Leih]

Okay maybe I just had a filter on! I see it now.

 

[Mizzely]

So having gone through some of this with a Quaker at about the same age (where I got attacked and my husband did not), part of it is hormones and puberty. Your bird is supposed to leave the nest at around this age to pursue a mate that is not genetically related. Having a bird from weaning can make him see you as the parents, and so they can get a little ticked off if they feel like you are trying to encourage a relationship with them when they are trying to spread their wings, so to speak. I have also experienced puberty with a green cheeked conure and similarly found that she was much more independent around 18 months than she was as a baby.

The first thing I would say is, if he doesn't want your attention, stop trying so hard. I found that the harder I tried with Jingo, the more he struggled against me. Almost as soon as I stopped trying, he chilled out and was tolerant of me for many years.

Give him as few reasons and chances to bite as possible. Give him food, water, toys, out of cage time, and let him explore the world without you. Think of him as a teenager who REALLY doesn't want to go do stuff with his parents right now! Of course he gets mad when he is reprimanded - who likes to be yelled at?

As much as it hurts, he doesn't HAVE to be excited by you. If he has a relationship that is working for him, that's good!

But yes, what is his cage like? What types of toys does he have? (Foraging in particular are great for a bird that gets excited about being aggressive). How much out of cage time does he get? Is he flighted? Has he been to a vet to rule out any illnesses (sometimes pain, for instance, can manifest as aggression).

 

[DoubleTake]

When he struts and postures, is it on the cage or everywhere? Is he given any type of cave like environment that can be interpreted as a nest lile huts? Bringing home a new bird can sometime be viewed as a threat. Since the new bird doesnt like you but likes your wife, it could compound the situation and the gcc feels a need to protect his person from you and the new competition. He is reaching sexual maturity and it is hormone season which can also make it difficult. My youngest sun conure is being kind of a butt and acting out right now. This is generally the time of year where I get bit a few times by him and unable to unlock my phone with my pointer finger lol.

I would just let him be independent but still be in the room where he has the option to engage with you or your wife. Let him observe and be part of the family without unwanted physical confrontation. Eventually he may be curious and come around or wondering why no one is reacting to his out bursts. Important to not totally ignore as it may have negative affects.

 

[Monica]

Coming from another perspective... how is your wife handling your green cheek? What does she do with him? Does he just sit on her shoulder? Does she pet his head? What about his body?

Does he have a nest? What about a hut or something to sleep in? Boxes? Anything he likes to hide in or under?



I can see part of the issue is lack of proper training. When I say 'proper training', I don't mean the training that you have already tried and is obviously not working. Before I go into more detail about training, it would be nice to know more about how he is handled and interacted with by your wife as well as his environment.

 

[Spencerk]

So having gone through some of this with a Quaker at about the same age (where I got attacked and my husband did not), part of it is hormones and puberty. Your bird is supposed to leave the nest at around this age to pursue a mate that is not genetically related. Having a bird from weaning can make him see you as the parents, and so they can get a little ticked off if they feel like you are trying to encourage a relationship with them when they are trying to spread their wings, so to speak. I have also experienced puberty with a green cheeked conure and similarly found that she was much more independent around 18 months than she was as a baby.

The first thing I would say is, if he doesn't want your attention, stop trying so hard. I found that the harder I tried with Jingo, the more he struggled against me. Almost as soon as I stopped trying, he chilled out and was tolerant of me for many years.

Give him as few reasons and chances to bite as possible. Give him food, water, toys, out of cage time, and let him explore the world without you. Think of him as a teenager who REALLY doesn't want to go do stuff with his parents right now! Of course he gets mad when he is reprimanded - who likes to be yelled at?

As much as it hurts, he doesn't HAVE to be excited by you. If he has a relationship that is working for him, that's good!

But yes, what is his cage like? What types of toys does he have? (Foraging in particular are great for a bird that gets excited about being aggressive). How much out of cage time does he get? Is he flighted? Has he been to a vet to rule out any illnesses (sometimes pain, for instance, can manifest as aggression).

His cage is large, with bells and chew toys. He has a cloth "squid" he sleeps under. He is out of the cage at least 10 hours most days. He is not flighted and never had been. He hasn't been to the vet, but it isn't illness of that I am positive.

 

[Spencerk]

When he struts and postures, is it on the cage or everywhere? Is he given any type of cave like environment that can be interpreted as a nest lile huts? Bringing home a new bird can sometime be viewed as a threat. Since the new bird doesnt like you but likes your wife, it could compound the situation and the gcc feels a need to protect his person from you and the new competition. He is reaching sexual maturity and it is hormone season which can also make it difficult. My youngest sun conure is being kind of a butt and acting out right now. This is generally the time of year where I get bit a few times by him and unable to unlock my phone with my pointer finger lol.

I would just let him be independent but still be in the room where he has the option to engage with you or your wife. Let him observe and be part of the family without unwanted physical confrontation. Eventually he may be curious and come around or wondering why no one is reacting to his out bursts. Important to not totally ignore as it may have negative affects.

This is good, I'm hearing a consensus to give him space. I've been pushing since I figured he felt ignored because of the new bird.

He struts mostly on his cage, but a little other places when he is in a mood. He doesn't have a hut, but he does have a cloth toy that he hides in.

 

[Mizzely]

His cage is large, with bells and chew toys. He has a cloth "squid" he sleeps under. He is out of the cage at least 10 hours most days. He is not flighted and never had been. He hasn't been to the vet, but it isn't illness of that I am positive.

Large is in the eye of the beholder Dimensions are what I'm after. For a green cheek, 24x24 or 32x21 is usually the smallest you want to go.

Are the toys rotated out often? They can get bored. Does he play with them? Does he have ones that he can destroy?

Cloth toys can encourage hormonal behavior, and also can cause crop impactions if they preen them.

Being clipped means he can't go where he wants when he wants, which means that he can't burn off excess energy and can get frustrated by his limitations. Does he have anywhere besides his cage he can move to and explore (playstand, etc)? Consider letting him gain his flight back as clipped birds can develop health issues like heart problems, as well as behavioral issues.

Birds are designed to hide illness If he's never been to the vet then now is as good a time as any to take him just to be sure.

 

[Spencerk]

Coming from another perspective... how is your wife handling your green cheek? What does she do with him? Does he just sit on her shoulder? Does she pet his head? What about his body?

Does he have a nest? What about a hut or something to sleep in? Boxes? Anything he likes to hide in or under?



I can see part of the issue is lack of proper training. When I say 'proper training', I don't mean the training that you have already tried and is obviously not working. Before I go into more detail about training, it would be nice to know more about how he is handled and interacted with by your wife as well as his environment.

My wife isn't an experienced bird owner, and unfortunately does pet him and touch him places other than his head every once in awhile. Fortunately, she is usually good about it.

He sits on her shoulder a bit, less lately as I have asked her not to. He usually follows her around and just wants to be near her, though much less than he used to.

As for nests, he doesn't have a hut, but he does have a cloth toy he loves to sleep under. Probably time to remove that.

As for training, we've tried things to little success. Up until recently he was very well behaved. Our local conure guy (has raised over 200 of them) says he is one of the best behaved conures hes seen. He is food motivated, and I do simple training with him every few days (usually making him step up multiple times, or spot training). But it doesn't really change his behaviour at all. He will behave when we have a treat, and not behave when we dont.

 

[Spencerk]

Large is in the eye of the beholder Dimensions are what I'm after. For a green cheek, 24x24 or 32x21 is usually the smallest you want to go.

Are the toys rotated out often? They can get bored. Does he play with them? Does he have ones that he can destroy?

Cloth toys can encourage hormonal behavior, and also can cause crop impactions if they preen them.

Being clipped means he can't go where he wants when he wants, which means that he can't burn off excess energy and can get frustrated by his limitations. Does he have anywhere besides his cage he can move to and explore (playstand, etc)? Consider letting him gain his flight back as clipped birds can develop health issues like heart problems, as well as behavioral issues.

Birds are designed to hide illness If he's never been to the vet then now is as good a time as any to take him just to be sure.

It isn't cage or toy issues. His cage is large, and toys are swapped weekly.

He has three stations throughout the house to play on, each with a rotating selection of toys. He can and often does move between them and different rooms by himself.

He destroys a toy every 2 or 3 weeks, as he loves chewing and fighting with bell toys.

I will never let a bird I own be unclipped. It is dangerous and leads to behavioral problems. Simply not an option.

He went to the vet a little over a year ago. I am extremely in tune with my birds' health and moods. I'm not a newbie here.

 

[Mizzely]

Welp I can't be of any assistance then. Good luck to you. Hopefully others will be able to assist better.

 

[Monica]

Sounds like it may be best to take out his sleeping cloth for now. It may or may not help the situation.

No more petting anywhere other than the head.


Can you describe, in detail how you train him, including rewarding him?

I will never let a bird I own be unclipped. It is dangerous and leads to behavioral problems. Simply not an option.

On the contrary, it's possible he has behavioral problems because he's clipped. As mentioned, he has no way to get rid of pent up energy.

What do you do with a dog with behavioral issues? The recommendation is to exercise and train them!!! What do we do with birds? We clip them. How is clipping solving an issue when the issue is still present when the bird is clipped? (rhetorical question, just something to ponder)


I'm not recommending you to allow his flights to grow out.... at least not right now! But I would recommend it, after you've changed his behavior. (or at least while you work on it) All of my birds are flighted and I refuse to have a clipped bird in my home. If they come to me clipped, their flights are growing out! Tame or not, they will be flighted.

 

[Spencerk]

Sounds like it may be best to take out his sleeping cloth for now. It may or may not help the situation.

No more petting anywhere other than the head.


Can you describe, in detail how you train him, including rewarding him?

Yeah, I've already got it out. Fingers crossed it helps a bit.

And yeah, I'll try to get my wife to stop. It definitely needs to.


As for spot training, I use a chopstick. He will move up to about a foot to touch it at this point. Clickers scare him, so I just say "good" and give him a treat. Im planning on trying clickers again soon since it has been awhile since I tried last.

For stepping up, I just have him step up, laddering my fingers about 5 times telling him "good" after each, then give him a treat.

 

[Spencerk]

On the contrary, it's possible he has behavioral problems because he's clipped. As mentioned, he has no way to get rid of pent up energy.

What do you do with a dog with behavioral issues? The recommendation is to exercise and train them!!! What do we do with birds? We clip them. How is clipping solving an issue when the issue is still present when the bird is clipped? (rhetorical question, just something to ponder)


I'm not recommending you to allow his flights to grow out.... at least not right now! But I would recommend it, after you've changed his behavior. (or at least while you work on it) All of my birds are flighted and I refuse to have a clipped bird in my home. If they come to me clipped, their flights are growing out! Tame or not, they will be flighted.

I respect the point of view, but its simply not going to happen. I've read enough, and had enough parrot behaviorists tell me clipping is best, in addition to my own experiences. From a safety perspective its just not possible either.

Not trying to be argumentative, but I'm pretty firm on that.

 

[Spencerk]

Thank you, everyone, for the responses! I really appreciate the help.

 

[Monica]

I'm not aware of any good parrot behaviorists that recommend clipping.

Regardless, thanks for giving more detailed response! I appreciate it!


A clicker is not required in training, but it can be beneficial. If you want to incorporate it into your training, try standing 10 or so feet away from him. You can have the clicker in one hand, treats in another. Keep behind you and click the clicker. If he doesn't respond, go up and give him a treat. If he freaks out, step further away and try again. If you are in an area where he doesn't respond, then stay there for a few repetitions, then move closer, and repeat. Look for any behavior that he's uncomfortable with the sound, including being on alert, sleek feathers, looking to escape.

Alternatively, try finding a quieter clicker?



As for step up training... if I'm understanding it correctly, you are, more or less, forcing him to step up then rewarding him? At least, that's what laddering generally implies. The bird is forced to step up several times before they receive a reward. Have you ever tried using target training (what you say, spot training?) to teach him to step up?


Have you done any station training with him as well?


I do believe that you have the right idea in mind, just perhaps not the right steps to achieve your goal. With some tweaks here and there, I believe you can change his behavior!