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Getting Nervous!!!

macawpower58

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I'd love to read your thoughts on this topic in a separate post. Certainly there are birds who shouldn't be on your shoulder, but I have no issues with mine being there.
Regarding the concepts of "equal" and "superior" -- I strive for equal.
Steve, why not start a thread (add a link) so Jan and and anyone that wants to can put in their thoughts.
This can be a hot item in discussions, and might derail Brandy's new baby thread.
 

MacawMom87

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I'd love to read your thoughts on this topic in a separate post. Certainly there are birds who shouldn't be on your shoulder, but I have no issues with mine being there.
Regarding the concepts of "equal" and "superior" -- I strive for equal.
Interesting. I haven’t heard that before. I would love if you would elaborate a little bit more.
 

FeatheredM

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I never actually wanted.birds:confused::huh::facepalm::hilarious::rolleyes:but when my family brought them it wasn't long before I was the one using all my money on them and have them moved to my room and totally love them with all my heart
 

Jan

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I'd love to read your thoughts on this topic in a separate post. Certainly there are birds who shouldn't be on your shoulder, but I have no issues with mine being there.
Regarding the concepts of "equal" and "superior" -- I strive for equal.
While it would be nice to think you and your bird are equal it is not in your favor and if it is now ... at some point like when maturity settles in, there will be more conflict between the person and the bird. You might think your bird just bit you for no reason but often there is a perfect reason, sometimes we just don't know the real reason until after the fact. Like when my daughter was around and I had my B&G on my shoulder or even just on my arm she would bite and strike the crap out of me when my daughter came into view. While she well liked my daughter, I was my bird's favorite and her equal so there for my bird thought we were equal.

When having my B&G, I always kept her eye level below mine. The minute she was higher than me, she turned superior so until I would bring her below my eye level ... she just though she was tough sh*t. Her hanging swing perch was lower than my eye level, I never let her play on the outside of her cage because it is tall and I could not get her and she always got a crappy attitude when she was up there on top.

In nature, whether it be wild or captive birds if you ever watched or read where like for instance when danger comes along the male will bite the female this is their way to protect their mate. Sometimes the female with be the one that dominates over the male. Another is pretty like when you have a mama bird in the nest with her baby or babies, the mama will bite, hurt and in some cases kill the baby bird because there was interference or danger. Even dogs, cats and other animal do that.

So this might be some info that the new bird owner can take into consideration. Often new bird owners love to have a new weaned baby up on their shoulder and probably at that young age not probably as a big of deal but it will enforce the bird to want to be there. Main goal is the keep eye to eye contact so the bird's eye level is lower than your eye level.
 

Macawnutz

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Every bird is so different and often interpretations of behavior are different. I have no issues with height dominance within my flock and having 7 macaws I feel like I have a good rounded opinion. :D
Having 11 foot ceilings, 7 foot tall cages and flighted birds most of their favorite spots are above my head. I do have a few that sit on my shoulder, a few that would never be allowed on my shoulder and one that is allowed if he is not acting like a butthead. :laugh: My husband would say the same thing except with a different set of birds.

You guys will learn together. Most often you are learning what doesn't work instead of what does but either way you are learning. ;)

Babies are so stinking cute. It's a defense mechanism you know.... they make you fall so in love with them when they are tiny so you won't be as angry when they are screaming their guts out and eating your walls. :rofl:
 

macawpower58

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I've also never seen height connected with aggression. My macaw on top of his cage will play keep away, but is not more aggressive.
Now I've seen ground runners get a bit uppity and go after my toes.
Any bird with a habit of nipping/biting should not be allowed shoulder time, but I feel it's just an easy place to bite and not having anything to do with how high up they are.
 

Big Blues

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Gonzo is so adorable! ❤ Looking forward to seeing more of him. This forum is a well informed place to share and learn. We have given a few rescue macaws and rehomes a loving home while learning every day how cute, smart and cunning they are. One suggestion from my experience is what behavior you accept once, expect again and again as Gonzo learns. As he develops and matures making changes to his challenges, you will experience unexpected behaviors especially during hormonal years. Our lives change over the years as well and macaw behaviors are not easy to change as ours are not. Our feathered companions seem to enjoy a routine but when the unexpected experience happens they ‘pout’!
 

MacawMom87

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Gonzo is so adorable! ❤ Looking forward to seeing more of him. This forum is a well informed place to share and learn. We have given a few rescue macaws and rehomes a loving home while learning every day how cute, smart and cunning they are. One suggestion from my experience is what behavior you accept once, expect again and again as Gonzo learns. As he develops and matures making changes to his challenges, you will experience unexpected behaviors especially during hormonal years. Our lives change over the years as well and macaw behaviors are not easy to change as ours are not. Our feathered companions seem to enjoy a routine but when the unexpected experience happens they ‘pout’!
Thank you! That’s a really good point, we have noticed that with her children. If you give them an inch they will expect a mile every other time. Good to know!
 

MacawMom87

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While it would be nice to think you and your bird are equal it is not in your favor and if it is now ... at some point like when maturity settles in, there will be more conflict between the person and the bird. You might think your bird just bit you for no reason but often there is a perfect reason, sometimes we just don't know the real reason until after the fact. Like when my daughter was around and I had my B&G on my shoulder or even just on my arm she would bite and strike the crap out of me when my daughter came into view. While she well liked my daughter, I was my bird's favorite and her equal so there for my bird thought we were equal.

When having my B&G, I always kept her eye level below mine. The minute she was higher than me, she turned superior so until I would bring her below my eye level ... she just though she was tough sh*t. Her hanging swing perch was lower than my eye level, I never let her play on the outside of her cage because it is tall and I could not get her and she always got a crappy attitude when she was up there on top.

In nature, whether it be wild or captive birds if you ever watched or read where like for instance when danger comes along the male will bite the female this is their way to protect their mate. Sometimes the female with be the one that dominates over the male. Another is pretty like when you have a mama bird in the nest with her baby or babies, the mama will bite, hurt and in some cases kill the baby bird because there was interference or danger. Even dogs, cats and other animal do that.

So this might be some info that the new bird owner can take into consideration. Often new bird owners love to have a new weaned baby up on their shoulder and probably at that young age not probably as a big of deal but it will enforce the bird to want to be there. Main goal is the keep eye to eye contact so the bird's eye level is lower than your eye level.
Those are great points. I have heard of birds on shoulders biting when someone else comes into the room. As I have three little kids I could imagine that that might happen. Thank you for your insight. I will definitely be watching for those behaviors!
 

MacawMom87

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Every bird is so different and often interpretations of behavior are different. I have no issues with height dominance within my flock and having 7 macaws I feel like I have a good rounded opinion. :D
Having 11 foot ceilings, 7 foot tall cages and flighted birds most of their favorite spots are above my head. I do have a few that sit on my shoulder, a few that would never be allowed on my shoulder and one that is allowed if he is not acting like a butthead. :laugh: My husband would say the same thing except with a different set of birds.

You guys will learn together. Most often you are learning what doesn't work instead of what does but either way you are learning. ;)

Babies are so stinking cute. It's a defense mechanism you know.... they make you fall so in love with them when they are tiny so you won't be as angry when they are screaming their guts out and eating your walls. :rofl:
Every bird is so different and often interpretations of behavior are different. I have no issues with height dominance within my flock and having 7 macaws I feel like I have a good rounded opinion. :D
Having 11 foot ceilings, 7 foot tall cages and flighted birds most of their favorite spots are above my head. I do have a few that sit on my shoulder, a few that would never be allowed on my shoulder and one that is allowed if he is not acting like a butthead. :laugh: My husband would say the same thing except with a different set of birds.

You guys will learn together. Most often you are learning what doesn't work instead of what does but either way you are learning. ;)

Babies are so stinking cute. It's a defense mechanism you know.... they make you fall so in love with them when they are tiny so you won't be as angry when they are screaming their guts out and eating your walls. :rofl:
Thank you for sharing your perspective! I guess we’ll just have to get to know him a little bit better to know what’s going to work best for our relationship. I appreciate all the insights from everyone!
 

MacawMom87

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I never actually wanted.birds:confused::huh::facepalm::hilarious::rolleyes:but when my family brought them it wasn't long before I was the one using all my money on them and have them moved to my room and totally love them with all my heart
I am totally anticipating that will happen with my husband! He’s not as excited as I am about bringing home bird. But he was the same way with the dog and now they are best buddies! Ha ha. How can you not love them?!
 

flyzipper

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Interesting. I haven’t heard that before. I would love if you would elaborate a little bit more.
I have no issues with height aggression.
PXL_20210616_234259707_2 (Large).jpg

I choose to avoid words like "superior" for a few reasons. First, it ascribes a human motive to an observed behaviour, and since we have no way of confirming our theory, it's not useful. Second, it's a slippery slope from adopting an attitude of superiority to dominance-based training, and that old-school approach should be avoided at all costs (in favour of positive reinforcement).

I choose to embrace "equal" because it's a constant reminder of what I should strive for in any given situation.

Contrast those attitudes in the following scenario (Oscar is sitting as depicted above and I'd like to go shopping before the store closes)...
  • Superior attitude - I need to go (my choice), so you need to come (my choice), and if you don't I will make you because you need to listen to me (my choice).
  • Equal attitude - I need to go (my choice), will you come (their choice)? If not, I'll be back in 20 minutes to check up on you (there's no danger leaving him if that's what he wants).
Play that superior attitude scenario out a hundred or a thousand times, for things big and small, and we'll end up with a bird who learns they don't have a choice, and their feedback isn't heard. When the subtle communication our birds offer isn't listened to, they learn to speak more loudly (through biting).

I brought these guys into my home, and equal means they should expect the same things I do in this space: safety, comfort, lack of fear, freedom, enrichment, healthy food, clean water and air, adequate sleep, etc. Equal means I've chosen to be with them, and I endeavour to create an environment where they choose to be with me (which makes getting them down from the rafters must easier).

I don't think it's, "nice to think you and your bird are equal", I think it's essential for a healthy relationship.
 

MacawMom87

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I have no issues with height aggression.
View attachment 389820

I choose to avoid words like "superior" for a few reasons. First, it ascribes a human motive to an observed behaviour, and since we have no way of confirming our theory, it's not useful. Second, it's a slippery slope from adopting an attitude of superiority to dominance-based training, and that old-school approach should be avoided at all costs (in favour of positive reinforcement).

I choose to embrace "equal" because it's a constant reminder of what I should strive for in any given situation.

Contrast those attitudes in the following scenario (Oscar is sitting as depicted above and I'd like to go shopping before the store closes)...
  • Superior attitude - I need to go (my choice), so you need to come (my choice), and if you don't I will make you because you need to listen to me (my choice).
  • Equal attitude - I need to go (my choice), will you come (their choice)? If not, I'll be back in 20 minutes to check up on you (there's no danger leaving him if that's what he wants).
Play that superior attitude scenario out a hundred or a thousand times, for things big and small, and we'll end up with a bird who learns they don't have a choice, and their feedback isn't heard. When the subtle communication our birds offer isn't listened to, they learn to speak more loudly (through biting).

I brought these guys into my home, and equal means they should expect the same things I do in this space: safety, comfort, lack of fear, freedom, enrichment, healthy food, clean water and air, adequate sleep, etc. Equal means I've chosen to be with them, and I endeavour to create an environment where they choose to be with me (which makes getting them down from the rafters must easier).

I don't think it's, "nice to think you and your bird are equal", I think it's essential for a healthy relationship.
So wonderful! I sort of have the attitude of all creatures being equal, and especially so because these animals depend on us for everything because we have mad it that way. You put it so beautifully! Thank you for your insight.
 

Jan

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@MacawMom87 How often are you getting to visit your new bundle of feathers?
 

MacawMom87

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I live about four hours away, so I try to visit him as often as I can. So far I have visiting him at least once a month if not more. If I could I would visit him every week! Ha ha.
 
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