FLOODING

[Hankmacaw]

There have been a couple of questions about the method of training called "FLOODING" lately. I'm far from a trainer or behaviorist, but I instinctively know that this method is not productive nor anything but cruelty. Flooding actually make a parrot or any animal just give up and much of their "personality" is destroyed.

Here are definitions and examples presented by Barbara Heidenreich at Parrot & Bird Training Terminology | Good Bird Training

"Flooding:
A process of teaching an animal to cope with a situation it fears. The process is generally traumatic and relentless. The animal learns nothing it does will change the outcome and learns to submit or tolerate the situation. Not recommended!

Example of flooding:
Everyday a Quaker parrot is required to be moved from one location to another. The bird does not step up voluntarily. It is decided the bird must be moved and the bird is chased with a towel until the parrot is captured. This is repeated two times daily to move the bird inside and outside. Eventually the bird stops running away from the towel and freezes when it sees the towel. This allows the bird to be captured easily."

Coercion

Coercion: To be coerced is to be compelled under duress or threat to do something against our will. Coercion enters the picture when our actions are controlled by negative reinforcement or positive punishment. (Sidman 1989) In addition actions that contribute to control via negative reinforcement or positive punishment need not be severely aversive to be coercive. Seemingly innocuous activities such as scooping a parrot onto a hand, pushing a rabbit into a kennel and redirecting a wandering opossum on a table all incorporate force. Not recommended.



Coercion is closely related and just as damaging.
"Example of Coercion:
To get your Goffin’s Cockatoo to wear a harness you have your partner restrain the bird while you strap on the apparatus. The bird cannot escape from the restraint or the harness if his body language indicates he is not comfortable. The next time you approach with the harness he flies away from you. This experience can make it very difficult to train your bird to wear a harness in the future."

 

[iamwhoiam]

I read somewhere that the bird learning to submit is similar to Stockholm Syndrome where someone is kidnapped and at some point falls in with the kidnappers, sort of like what happened with Patty Hearst.
I also read that the "training" doesn't last and the bird will revert sooner or later.
So many better ways to work with our feathered friends than the flooding method.

 

[sunnysmom]

This is actually something I've been worrying about if I'm doing. Elvis can't be out right now when Howie is around. I have been trying to have designated "out" time for Elvis where if Howie is home, Elvis and I are on one floor and Howie is on another. The problem is Howie doesn't always give me much notice- if any- that he's coming back downstairs or back in the house, etc. If Elvis is busy playing, he's not going to instantly go back into his cage. So, I've been picking him up and putting him in his cage. Now, Elvis seems unphased by it. However, I worry that I shouldn't be doing it. Normally, I try to work with him to go back into his cage by himself but how long it takes depends on his mood.......... Do you think I shouldn't be picking him up. (I don't towel him. I just scoop him up and cuddle him.)

 

[painesgrey]

I read somewhere that the bird learning to submit is similar to Stockholm Syndrome where someone is kidnapped and at some point falls in with the kidnappers, sort of like what happened with Patty Hearst.
I also read that the "training" doesn't last and the bird will revert sooner or later.
So many better ways to work with our feathered friends than the flooding method.

Typically in psychology and behavior, the submissive behavior resulting from flooding techniques is called "learned helplessness".

 

[Hankmacaw]

That's how I put Jasper back in her aviary all of the time (mostly, when she doesn't go in on her own for a snack or a nap). it doesn't seem to bother her at all, but I've had her for 17+ years and we are pretty comfortable together.

Positive reinforcement doesn't mean absolutely no punishment. Jasper knows what no means and she gets three "NO"s then she gets put in her cage. It has worked and we are still the best of friends.

The other thing that I believe (right or wrong) is that when taming/training a bird , they need to be pushed a little beyond their comfort level at times, or they won't try anything new and uncomfortable (not even a little bit).

 

[sunnysmom]

That's how I put Jasper back in her aviary all of the time (mostly, when she doesn't go in on her own for a snack or a nap). it doesn't seem to bother her at all, but I've had her for 17+ years and we are pretty comfortable together.

Positive reinforcement doesn't mean absolutely no punishment. Jasper knows what no means and she gets three "NO"s then she gets put in her cage. It has worked and we are still the best of friends.

The other thing that I believe (right or wrong) is that when taming/training a bird , they need to be pushed a little beyond their comfort level at times, or they won't try anything new and uncomfortable (not even a little bit).

Elvis doesn't seem bothered either. He just tries to give me kisses the whole time. Not sure if he's trying to butter me up to not put him in his cage or what......... LOL.

 

[Sarahmoluccan]

The other thing that I believe (right or wrong) is that when taming/training a bird , they need to be pushed a little beyond their comfort level at times, or they won't try anything new and uncomfortable (not even a little bit).

I'm a bigger believer in pushing them just a little beyond their comfort level too. Its very important to know what your bird will be able to handle thou. You can go backwards if you're over zealous.

Echo is a nervous bird at times and will freak out at random things. You could probably consider what I do as "flooding" him. I gradually get him to face his fears. Recently he freak out at a ladder, he has seen it before but now it was in a different spot. It took less than 5 minutes to get him to stop freaking out about. Usually if I can get him to the point when he will touch it and he realizes its an in inanimate object he's gets off over it.

Right now with the heat wave we have fans all over the place. Problem with them is the darn things move. So its an up hill battle getting him to be ok with them. There's one he really dislikes and freaks out about. But gradually getting him use to it and having him touch hopefully he'll be ok with it. But it definitely requires him to push a little out of he comfort zone.

 

[faislaq]

Good luck, Echo, You can do it!

And we do the same thing with Luv Bug, @sunnysmom. If we have to catch her when someone goes in or out (she escaped for 2 days at her old house & we don't want a repeat) we scoop her up and play with her and distract her til the door's closed again. She's probably wondering "Whoa, what the heck?... Oh okay, I can go along with this!" Then we just set her back where she was. I think it depends on the bird.

And if we have to leave and nobody's going to be home, she can't stay out, so sometimes we do have to catch her. We pet her and tell her why on the way to her cage where she steps up onto her perch. Then we give her a treat to sweeten the deal & distract her as we leave so she doesn't fuss. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Rain Bow]

Thank you for posting this Mary! I found my answer in a search in google & your thread was the very 1st one. Have my answer from B.H. all I need!