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Fishy breath and no avian vets

Reems

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Reem
Hey everyone, I know this is long and I appreciate everyone who takes the time to read it and maybe can give me advice. :heart:



I adopted a timneh african grey about 10 months ago.



I already have 2 galah cockatoos and when i got the TAG I quarantined him for approximately a month and he showed no signs of illness.



He is very aggressive and hard to deal with and that’s the main reason me and my family decided to adopt him, he’s a very independent bird who doesn’t like to be told what to do and has a very strong personality. attacks heads and feet and bites and doesn’t know the concept of stepping up on hands.



Anyways, a lot of his bad behavior is starting to decrease with time and patience.



Around the beginning of march I noticed he had fishy breath when i get close to him and he speaks directly to my face.



I knew something wasn’t right so I searched everywhere for an avian vet and sadly I couldn’t find even one in the whole country.



All i could find is general vets and one of them performed surgeries on smaller birds and succeeded so I took my TAG there and he checked him physically and checked the inside of his beak and found yellowish plaque, so he said the bird has chlamydia and it caused the plaque to build up inside his crop and beak.



He cleaned it manually the he gave me 3 syringes (3 ml each) with medicine inside and told me to put 1.5 ml in his drinking water everyday for 6 days, I asked him about the name of the medicine and he said it’s neomycin.



So we started the meds on the 8th of march.

The next day I searched a lot about chlamydia and none of the symptoms describe my bird but seeing i started the meds I couldn’t stop, and part of me really wanted to trust the vet since I have no other option.



On the 3rd day the smell disappeared completely! it was a success and i was so happy that it worked.



Until 3 days ago when i started to smell it again :(

He doesn’t have it all the time and i noticed it at night when he’s covered inside his cage and i come to check on him.

When i raise the cage cover he greets me and i can smell it.

Notice that I don’t smell it when he isn’t vocal at all.



I immediately contacted my first vet describing everything and he told me to bring him again for a checkup.

I asked him if they can take a sample of what’s in his crop or beak and do a test and he said we only do clinical diagnosis.



And then the search for an avian vet started again, i contacted famous bird owners, shelters, vets and even went on Linked In and had a prolonged search.



Now i’m 100% sure we don’t have an avian vet in the whole country.



And I don’t want to stress him out by taking him to checkups by incompetent vets. (He gets extremely stressed out because he doesn’t like to be touched even by me although he likes me)



When i first searched for the foul breath i came across a couple of diseases and one of them is bacterial infection caused by vit A deficiency and since then (march) I increased his vit A intake tremendously in his daily chop and by giving him red palm oil and he loves it :heart:



Other diseases symptoms were all the same and include: Loss of appetite, lethargy, nasal discharge, weakness, diarrhea and so on



But he shows no signs of these symptoms. He’s quite energetic and plays all day long outside the cage, and he goes crazy when it’s meal time.



The other thing I found is the possibility of a sour crop and i read to check the crop first thing in the morning to see if it’s full and the food doesn’t pass. I did it today and it wasn’t full and i checked again after eating (to make sure i was looking at the right area) and it was full.



I can’t find any way to diagnose him properly to give the correct medication and i’m losing my mind.



I even started adding ACV to his water 2 days ago and he likes it and drinks it.





But i came across falcons vets in my area through my search (falcons are very popular in Saudi Arabia and people care about them A LOT)



Do you think a falcon vet can diagnose a parrot?

Anatomy-wise. Do you think parrots and falcons are similar?



I included pictures of him to see if you can see something I can’t.
 

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sunnysmom

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He's a handsome boy. I'm sorry he's been having issues. What country are you in?

I'll tag some people who may have some ideas for you. @Hankmacaw ? @Mizzely ?
 

Hankmacaw

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I think one of the Falcon vets would be excellent. Not only are the Mid-Easterners serious about falconry they take excellent care of their birds. Many of the vets in falconry have either a zoo background or a parrot background.

Here is a good article about Chlamydia.
.

I just don't know - your bird doesn't seem to have may of the classic symptoms of chlamydia and since he reacted well to the fungal medication, I would guess that he has some sort of a fungal infection (bacteria are not effected by fungicides).

This from DMV 360 cover numerous diseases of the oropharynx in birds - and most include the symptom of bad breath.

See what you think after reading these over.
 

MiniMacaw

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Definitely go to the falcon vet. An odor of the mouth can be fungal, bacterial or a mixture of both. And it can be one bacterial colony or several, with not all bacteria responding to the same medications. Unfortunately it would be impossible to say what the best medication would be without diagnostics done.
My macaw had many symptoms of an oral fungal infection and was on antifungals for a long time, which his previous owner reported would seem to work for a while. Turns out, there was no fungus, just multiple severe colonies of bacteria that mimicked a fungal infection at first glance. Bad scent, yellow build up, etc. Even my vet was surprised there was no fungus.
Also, a 3 day course of anti fungal meds seems really short to me if it does turn out to be a fungal infection. Those are notoriously difficult and often times take months of daily meds. It’s possible the first vet was right and it is a fungal infection, in which case maybe the meds started to work but didn’t continue long enough to kill the entire infection and it’s since made a come back.
 
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Reems

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Reem
I think one of the Falcon vets would be excellent. Not only are the Mid-Easterners serious about falconry they take excellent care of their birds. Many of the vets in falconry have either a zoo background or a parrot background.

Here is a good article about Chlamydia.
.

I just don't know - your bird doesn't seem to have may of the classic symptoms of chlamydia and since he reacted well to the fungal medication, I would guess that he has some sort of a fungal infection (bacteria are not effected by fungicides).

This from DMV 360 cover numerous diseases of the oropharynx in birds - and most include the symptom of bad breath.

See what you think after reading these over.
I have asthma so if chlamydia can be passed to humans, then i’m 100% sure that he doesn’t have it because i haven’t had any issues lately and none of our family members show any signs of flu like symptoms.

i read the DMV 360 article and i’m more confused now.

I tried contacting several falcon clinics and most of them don’t answer.

however, the clinic that has the most positive reviews said that they don’t accept parrots in the meantime.

he explained that after COVID-19 and the quarantine they have a very busy schedule with falcons and making a test on a parrot would require them to change their whole system programing and it would take hours.

I asked him to save my number and call me immediately if they start accepting parrots again.

i’ll try to contact more tomorrow.
 

Reems

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Reem
Definitely go to the falcon vet. An odor of the mouth can be fungal, bacterial or a mixture of both. And it can be one bacterial colony or several, with not all bacteria responding to the same medications. Unfortunately it would be impossible to say what the best medication would be without diagnostics done.
My macaw had many symptoms of an oral fungal infection and was on antifungals for a long time, which his previous owner reported would seem to work for a while. Turns out, there was no fungus, just multiple severe colonies of bacteria that mimicked a fungal infection at first glance. Bad scent, yellow build up, etc. Even my vet was surprised there was no fungus.
Also, a 3 day course of anti fungal meds seems really short to me if it does turn out to be a fungal infection. Those are notoriously difficult and often times take months of daily meds. It’s possible the first vet was right and it is a fungal infection, in which case maybe the meds started to work but didn’t continue long enough to kill the entire infection and it’s since made a come back.
I didn’t know that neomycin is an anti fungal med and it makes so much sense now since he improved from only 6 day course it might help if it was longer?

The course wasn’t only 3 days it was 6 days and we completed it but what i meant is the smell disappeared from the 3rd day.

somehow now i feel better about taking him again to the first vet to take another course?


What do you think?
 

Hankmacaw

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The DMV article just emphasizes how complex diagnosis can be and why a good vet (who cares) is so important. I just have a hard time believing (I don't doubt what you say) that Saudi Arabia doesn't have avian vets. The UAE has many and it and Qatar are neighbors to you.

Fungal infections are notorious for them taking a long time to cure. Antibiotics don't help fungal infections and fungicides don't help bacterial infections.

This veterinary hospital takes birds in Khobar - Khobar Veterinary Clinic - full vet service, pets, pet products and advice in Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia
 
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Reems

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I have a hard time believing it too, i always go back to searching and asking around over and over again for years now.

I even searched for one in Bahrain since it’s the closest country to where i live (4-5 hours drive) I know i can take my birds and drive there. But it seems like they have the same issue.
 

Sparkles!

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Do you have any veterinary clinic near you that will help you to obtain specimens from your bird?
A veterinarian does not have to specialize in avian medicine to use many of the pathology labs. It’s not always this easy, but there are many labs out there that will test the swabs mailed into them and be able to provide you a culture or culture and sensitivity result- the small animal vet may not even need to know anything about birds. It could be as simple as the microbiologist finding a pathogen, identifying it, and then providing that vet with what medicine the pathogen has shown sensitivity to. That vet can then prescribe what’s needed.
If your vet will just help you obtain the samples, he/she could mail them in, and the diagnostic lab tests will pretty much be conclusive. Once you know the results, correct treatment can then be obtained.
 
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