Female cockatiel is weak and seems lethargic. Is force feeding a bad idea? *SAD UPDATE Post #42*

[chinensis8]

I'm not sure what went wrong. She loves eating. We live in a tropical place, so it's never too cold. Yesterday morning she just sat in a corner and slept. Noticed she hadn't eaten anything. Went straight to the vet. She's super weak and refuses to eat anything I offer her. Vet said I could try to force-feed her with a syringe at her mouth slowly. When the vet checked her, everything is ok, she didn't lose weight, mouth is ok, fecal matter is also ok. Somehow she's so tired, weak and doesn't want to/ have the energy to chew/eat.

After I force-fed her last night, this morning she seems more energetic. She has the energy to bite me if I'm doing something she doesn't like, her crown moves and she has her voice back. She's still weak but not as weak as yesterday, but I feel bad force-feeding her like this. Is there another option?

Vet didn't want to do a Sub q for hydration because he said it might hurt her a lot and shock her too much. He said she didn't need anitbiotics because there were no presence of bacteria in her fecal matter. All I need to do is try and get her to eat and drink. So far I have been feeding baby formula and water. One time coconut water to help her hydrate. I'm keeping her in a box at 30 C degrees with some water and food.

She can still fly and bite. But her eyes keeps closing. I don't think I'm doing enough. We're still under quarantine so our exotic vet options are low here. Anyone have a similar experience with this?

 

[Zara]

Vet said I could try to force-feed her with a syringe at her mouth slowly.

I find this pretty unbelievable.

You should never ¨force feed with a syringe¨. You can offer it, but if they won´t take it, forcing can lead to aspiration.
Offer the food on a small metal teaspoon.

If she stops eating all together she will need gavage fed by a professional or someone with experience.

 

[chinensis8]

That's what I suggested to him! Gavage feeding but he said she might bite it off and the syringe will remain in the crop or poke it or something. I can't reach the other vets around me and I'm kind of worried. She seems to be getting better but I feel bad everytime I feed with the syringe.

 

[Shezbug]

Is the vet you are seeing an avian vet or regular vet?

 

[chinensis8]

He is an exotic pets vet. So he also "supposedly" specializes in birds.
He is a Zoo vet, I've seen all kinds of animals brought to him it's amazing how many people keep those exotic pets....

 

[chinensis8]

Got in contact with a breeder, he says he knows how to gavage feed and will come over tonight to show me how to do that with her. He'll try to come whenever he can but it's hard during quarantine and no one is actually allowed to go out without a good reason for the police. Hopefully it will help...

 

[Zara]

Try the teaspoon first, see if she will eat it. Gavage feeding is last resort when your bird hasn´t eaten at all.

 

[chinensis8]

Try the teaspoon first, see if she will eat it. Gavage feeding is last resort when your bird hasn´t eaten at all.

I tried, all of her favorite food. She will take it and then drop it. She moves her face away from the spoon. I did all this before force feeding with the syringe. She doesn't want to for some reason.

She lost 3g already today. Idk how much longer she will last unless she is gets some food in her system. Preferable willingly. But idk what else to do now but wait.

 

[finchly]

So something is wrong, causing her not to eat, and you're going to force feed. At what point will that end? I know you feel that this will get her to turn a corner but I can see some issues. One is if her crop has a problem, the food will just sit there. Another is the rest of the digestive system, what if there's a blockage or something?

Also gavage feeding often causes them not to want to eat on their own - the exact opposite of what you want!

I understand the helpless feeling of wanting to do "something." Just not sure this is the right thing. Have you tried putting vitamins/electrolytes in her water to try to perk her up?

 

[chinensis8]

So something is wrong, causing her not to eat, and you're going to force feed. At what point will that end? I know you feel that this will get her to turn a corner but I can see some issues. One is if her crop has a problem, the food will just sit there. Another is the rest of the digestive system, what if there's a blockage or something?

Also gavage feeding often causes them not to want to eat on their own - the exact opposite of what you want!

I understand the helpless feeling of wanting to do "something." Just not sure this is the right thing. Have you tried putting vitamins/electrolytes in her water to try to perk her up?

What would you advise me to do? I'm pretty scared.
This is what the vet said I should do.
And yes I gave her vitamins in the water. It's something the vet gave. dextrose is what it's called I believe. Can I make electrolyte water? I found a recipe here:

• 2 c. Warm Water
• 2 tbsp. Brown Sugar, Honey or Molasses (I prefer molasses)
• 1/2 tsp. Salt
• 1/2 tsp. Baking Soda

Would this work?

And she has been pooping ever since I force fed. The colour of the poop was darker than normal but the vet said it was ok and it was probably the baby formula. But I still think something is wrong with her digestive system but idk what to do, the vet says it's ok, that there is no bacteria or blood but I don't think so.

 

[chinensis8]

Found this info:
Black droppings are a good indication that there is minimal food going thru the digestive tract which can put the bird at risk of GI stasis (digetion shutting fone, no movement) As long as the poop is black the intestines may have built up harmful bacterial that can get absorbed into the blood stream.

One herbal remedy I have found (that save birds life0 was going to the health food store for 2 herbal extracts:Gentian and Capiscum (cayenne) the Gentian is a bitter herb and stuimulates GI movement and encourages appetite. The capsicum is a warming herb, and also acts as a barrier in the digestive tract so that the intestinal do not absorb harmful pathogens. I have used 3-4 drops of each in the drinking water (changed out 2 times a day) until digestion and poop were back to normal looking.

When a bird gets dehydrated they will have a hard time maintaining body temps. So an electrolyte would be good to give. If you have access to a breeder or vet that knows how to administer Sub-Q fluids this will both hydrate him and also to help move feces through the GI tract. It is a good preventative to GI stasis.

I'll look for it first thing in the morning. Is it advisable to use gentian and capsicum? Has anyone had any experience with this?

 

[sunnysmom]

How old is your bird? What kind of tests did the vet do? Will she eat any soft foods or do you have any millet spray where you are?
@Mizzely ? @Birdbabe ? @Monica ?

 

[chinensis8]

How old is your bird? What kind of tests did the vet do? Will she eat any soft foods or do you have any millet spray where you are?
@Mizzely ? @Birdbabe ? @Monica ?

2 years old, culture test, she won't eat soft foods nor millet spray.
Someone at the uni told me that there might be an avian vet who keeps his clinic open. I'm going there tomorrow morning.

 

[Mizzely]

Wow I'm so sorry you and your bird are going through this! I've never heard of using Gentian in birds... It's usually used as a topical fungal treatment or antiseptic for minor abrasions. Cayenne pepper is something a lot of birds like and that may help encourage her to eat?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Can you get hand feeding formula? You can add a little bit of baby food to this mix for flavoring. As for gavage feeding, a breeder showing me once and then me doing it on my own wouldn't be comfortable. It's good that you are considering going to another vet. If you can get some liquid into her that would be a good thing. Can you get some Pedialyte? If she isn't taking the syringe you can even put a little bit on your fingertip and tap on her beak to get some of the liquid in. Will she take a some bites from small pieces of apple? Sometimes a B12 injection can be used to stimulate appetite and you can check with the vet regarding this. Keep offering a variety of foods. Even try things that she hasn't eaten before. I've had the experience that when birds are ill they will sometimes eat foods that they didn't used to like. Also eat next to her while you offer her foods. If you offer her a piece of apple, then you should also eat a piece of apple. Birds may be encouraged to eat when they see a flock member eating, in this case that would be you. Wishing the best for your 'tiel. Hope things will turn around and she will be OK.

 

[Hankmacaw]

I continually have issues with my Jasper (GW macaw, she has chronic health issues) not eating and losing weight. I've hand fed her off and on for the entire time I've had her and it has never harmed her, but has saved her life more than once.

It's not force feeding if you put the syringe in her mouth just so she needs to swallow. You can always give her fluids by this method too. GO SLOWLY/BE GENTLE - PUSH THE PLUNGER VERY SLOWLY. So she doesn't aspirate. I use a 3cc syringe, but I would imagine a 0.5cc or a 1cc syringe would be far better for such a tiny bird.

If you use pedialyte (good stuff) be sure to dilute it 1:1 with water . Undiluted it's too strong for a bird. One dehydration starts it cycles down and down.

Things that can enhance your bird's appetite are; Mirtazapine, Vitamin B and Metaclopramide.

Please continue to feed her -she will eventually like it. She needs to get over the hump .

 

[Zara]

I use a 3cc syringe, but I would imagine a 0.5cc or a 1cc syringe would be far better for such a tiny bird.

@chinensis8 I use a 1ml for my lovebirds. If you get a 0.5 it will give you a little more control.

 

[finchly]

I've heard that recipe you mentioned. It is far too much sugar. Maybe use once and only a little but I'm not happy about it at all (you are not the first to ask about it). The pedialyte or Thrive or Guardian Angel would be SO much better. I keep GA on hand, it literally saves them sometimes.

Can you see inside her mouth? Maybe she has burned or injured her tongue, and it makes her not want to eat?

The gentian violet is safe for birds, and capsicum is sometimes used for pain - this may be helpful but don't over do it! Birds are tiny!

I would not go and try every remedy you find out there. Instead I would keep her warm and quiet, and keep offering foods, pretend to eat them, tease her with them -- anything to get her to eat. Grind them up. Offer mashed baby food or mashed warm sweet potato. Or mashed anything! Keep trying.

Is she a baby? How long have you had her?

 

[Birdbabe]

SubQ fluids would shock her? Not! It would hydrate her ..who the eff is this vet? SubQ fluids hydrate quickly, while, may have to be done a couple times.. you can try the "pedialyte " from a spoon...a severely dehydrated bird will not show interest in food..and as for black poo , that's an upper GI issue..I rescue wild birds, eagles, hawks, song birds, waterfowl, ect. The FIRST thing you do after checking for Injury is hydrate, sub Q.. then the poo, ,,black is upper GI...red is lower GI....as for feeding, dont force! Try from a spoon or your fingers,,, hope that shes feels better, maybe a second opinion is in order.

 

[finchly]

SubQ fluids would shock her? Not! It would hydrate her ..who the eff is this vet? SubQ fluids hydrate quickly, while, may have to be done a couple times.. you can try the "pedialyte " from a spoon...a severely dehydrated bird will not show interest in food..and as for black poo , that's an upper GI issue..I rescue wild birds, eagles, hawks, song birds, waterfowl, ect. The FIRST thing you do after checking for Injury is hydrate, sub Q.. then the poo, ,,black is upper GI...red is lower GI....as for feeding, dont force! Try from a spoon or your fingers,,, hope that shes feels better, maybe a second opinion is in order.

Thanks for. Your expertise! We’re so lucky you are here.

With the smaller birds, the vets always seem to say things would shock them. But my exotic and Avian certified vet just gently does what he has to do... he never says that.