Eclectus with smelly breath and not eating normally (crop infection)

[JornsBergenson]

It looks like I broke our bird. Since I've been working from the last 3 weeks, I've been making more fresh food for Toby. Everyday, I've been preparing meals for me and him with sweet potatoe, spaghetti squash, cooked carrots, greens of all sorts. For his meals, I've been mixing in various fruits he really likes, especially organic berries and kiwi. Sounds great, right?

Well, the family all noticed that he started smelling bad and I figured he was overdue for a bath. Nope, it was his breath that started smelling of overripe fruit or moldy bread. It was so bad you could smell him from a few feet away. I suspect that I was overfeeding the bird his favorite foods and thus had contributed to him getting a crop infection. We went to the vet this morning (Dr. Ross from Cy-Fair Animal Hospital featured on The Vet Life on Animal Planet) who took cultures from his crop and gave us Bactrum until we get lab results in a week. We live 200 meters or less from their office but this is the first time any of our pets have been seen there. It was a good experience overall.

Can any eclectus experts give some advise here? My feeling is that I gave him too much food for him to digest but he loves berries and kiwi so much that he just kept eating it up.

 

[Monaco]

@mythic55 , @EkkieLu

Hiya @JornsBergenson . I'm sorry Toby isn't well. That list is great, so I can't think of a reason it would be a cause on its own. Maybe a change in ph from the good veggies threw something off balance? Leftovers in his crop? Poor guy. I don't think it's your fault. Good thing you've been home to catch it, though!

 

[JornsBergenson]

Thanks Monaco. I feel pretty strongly that I overfed him. He's crazy for the squash and berry mash. I realized that the bowls I've been using the last 2 weeks hold much more than the ones on his usual feeding stand. I should really weigh his fresh food so that I can be consistent.

While the vet trip was traumatic for him, he is doing much better today, eating his Tops and Harrisons pellets and a moderate amount of mixed vegetables. Later today he tore up the 3 toys I made for him in record time. His breath smells like normal "bird breath" too. I'm still following up with the Bactrim and the lab results.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

@mythic55

 

[Monaco]

I know you're going to get suggestions to severely limit or do away with the pellets, but eating is better than not eating. Sometimes Monaco just won't eat anything but her pellets, and I twist in knots about giving them to her. Count yourself lucky that he will eat his mash!

They're usually so good about the amounts they eat, though. I'm curious about what the labs will say... Keep us posted!

 

[mythic55]

It looks like I broke our bird. Since I've been working from the last 3 weeks, I've been making more fresh food for Toby. Everyday,
Can any eclectus experts give some advise here? My feeling is that I gave him too much food for him to digest but he loves berries and kiwi so much that he just kept eating it up.

Good morning Toby, im sorry your bird is ill.

How often do you CHANGE the food.
To me, sounds like an overgrowth of yeast or a bacterial infection, this can often be caused by:

Infection: Leaving fresh food in the enclosure too long, serving spoiled food or not disinfecting the dish between meals (and water dish), which means the infection is mostly likely in the gastro tract.

Yeast overgrowth (candidasasis): a multitude of reasons, but most often from not proper crop emptying times emptying times or unbalanced priobotic/ph, not caused by overfeeding. The infection might be in the crop, respiratory system or oropharynx. Now, not to alarm you, but the birds most often affected are: baby birds and birds with a weakened immune system.

Will they also be preforming a full blood panel?
Bactum is a combination of meds that should show improvement quickly. But the underlining reason for the infection or yeast should be addressed. We can help you work through that- The important thing to remember is since you took executive action, you bird should be ok.

Dont stop feeding healthy food, providing love and keeping a close eye on your bird.

 

[mythic55]

Just note, after any treatment you should administer probiotics. There are many brands out there, either your vet or other members can recommend some as I am not versed on the newest probiotic/prebiotic products.

 

[JornsBergenson]

Thanks Mythic for all of your help and concern.

When I started working from home, Toby's diet changed considerably. I used to leave Harrisons and Tops in his food bowl during the day and when I came home I would give him a bowl of fresh fruit and veg (about 50/50). While working from home, I've been making more fresh fruit/veg mixes and I have him on his feeding/play stand for the afternoon.

How often do you CHANGE the food.

I've been leaving fresh food in his bowl until he finishes it. Lately, that could be 3 to 5 hours because I've giving him so much. Is that too much time for fresh fruit and veg to be left out?

A week prior to him getting sick, I roasted a giant spaghetti squash and had been feeding him that mixed with berries or kiwi pretty much every day. I worried a little that the squash was going to go bad before we finished it. I did throw it out because I thought it smelt a little sour, but could have been my imagination.

He insists on dunking his pellets fowling the water in his bowl. I change the water several times a day. He also jams food up the spout of his water bottle (was a Lixit which never really worked for us and now a Bird Butler). I clean out the nozzle once a day.

To me, sounds like an overgrowth of yeast or a bacterial infection, this can often be caused by:

Infection: Leaving fresh food in the enclosure too long, serving spoiled food or not disinfecting the dish between meals (and water dish), which means the infection is mostly likely in the gastro tract.

I should note that the water and food bowls on his play stand are plastic, not stainless steel. I've been rinsing them well with water and washing with dishsoap at the end of each day. I have not been disinfecting as such. I'm not sure what to use for that.

Yeast overgrowth (candidasasis): a multitude of reasons, but most often from not proper crop emptying times emptying times or unbalanced priobotic/ph, not caused by overfeeding. The infection might be in the crop, respiratory system or oropharynx. Now, not to alarm you, but the birds most often affected are: baby birds and birds with a weakened immune system.

Will they also be preforming a full blood panel?
Bactum is a combination of meds that should show improvement quickly. But the underlining reason for the infection or yeast should be addressed. We can help you work through that- The important thing to remember is since you took executive action, you bird should be ok.

Dont stop feeding healthy food, providing love and keeping a close eye on your bird.

So, with the world situation, we have 3 jobless adult children moved in with us and my daughter will be having a baby any day. We just can't afford the blood panel. Toby does seem to be back to his normal self. His breath is back to normal and he's eating his food instead of nibbling and throwing the majority out of the bowl. He isn't regurgitating that I can see. For now we'll continue the antibiotic and wait for the cultures to come back.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[webchirp]

I would ask for nystatin or a fungal medication as well...just my two cents.

 

[mythic55]

@JornsBergenson
No problem, we are here to help. I will talk till my fingers bleed about Eclectus- HA

Time left out: Food should generally be removed at 2-3hr mark (many dependent factors)

Storage: If food is in the fridge (cooked) it should not be fed or consumed past 3 days.
If you are not going to finish it- freeze it

To disinfect the bowls on a budget:
Soap does little to disinfect in most situations. Try making a solution of bleach and water (2 tablesppons bleach to 1 gallon of water which gives you a 250-400 ppm disinfecting solution- extremely mild). Put this in the bowl, wait 20 seconds and rinse extremely well with a little soap and hot water, rinse again, and again, then dry completely, or alternately put them in the dishwasher. Plastic dishes can also harbor bacteria, I highly recommend switching to metal.
Bacteria can also get INSIDE water bottles. That should be disinfected at least once a week if not more.

I would do a heavy disinfecting of the bowls and the enclosure to ensure there is no lingering bacteria (just in case).

 

[JornsBergenson]

Thanks for the suggestions. We were told some of these same things by the breeder when we got Toby but I've become a little forgetful and/or lazy.

 

[JornsBergenson]

Update: The vet said that his heart is strong, his lungs are clear and appears to be in good health. By the time we got him to the vet, Toby's breath smelled much better. I've been able to get the Baytril antibiotic into him fairly easily by mixing it into sunflower seed butter. He licks the spoon clean and none ends up on his beak. He didn't want to get near the spoon at first but I was able to use the spoon as as a reward for target training.

That said, Toby is not quite his normal self. It looks like he might be molting. His feet are warmer than usual and he didn't play with any toys yesterday. Today he seems a lot better, having torn to shreds the wood block toys I made him in record time. He's eating a little less than normal.

Hopefully, his health will continue its upward swing. Waiting patiently for the lab results.

 

[JornsBergenson]

Update: It was a bacterial infection (I'll get the exact name of the bacteria when I get the report). Another round of Baytril is in order. Luckily Toby loves taking his meds in his sunflower butter treat.
The vet said it was likely a husbandry issue of some sort - contaminated food or water and/or a dirty cage. One thing that stands out for me is the spaghetti squash that was in the fridge for several days and probably went bad.

So, here's my plan of attack on bacteria:

1. Only allow fresh food to be in the fridge for 2 or 3 days, otherwise it should be in the freezer.
2. Offer fresh food on his feeding stand, never in his cage (we've been pretty good about this already). That also makes clean-up much easier.
3. Offer smaller portions of fresh food a couple of times a day instead of leaving larger portions for him to eat across 3 or more hours.
4. Change water as often as possible during the day. Toby dunks all his food in his water bowl and jams his water bottle so we have to keep up with him.
5. Clean his cage daily especially his perches so that his feet can stay clean. (Remembering that a birds feet are its hands.)
6. Keep toys clean or discard them if not easily cleaned.

Hopefully we are over this hurdle.