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Echinacea tea

finchly

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The one site is refernc
I definitely am not against alternative medicines! I am just more comfortable experimenting on myself than my bird :lol:
Lol

True!
The one site is referencing Dr. Greg Harrison, that should be a good source.

Most of the treatments used on pet birds are based on chicken studies. That’s what makes it all so frustrating to me. I’m talking mainstream medicine as well as alternative. If I were younger I’d do my own studies.
 

Nnbal

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All of these besides the Freedom Flight page, are directed for mammals or chickens. The chicken one says only these benefits, only one of which would be useful for parrots:

View attachment 381596




Parrot Shop link has no supporting evidence

No idea who cuteness dot com is but also no supporting evidence.

Holistic Birds cautions about dosing - what is the correct dose?? That's the key take away.


You could do more harm than good adding this to the diet.
Yes thank you for sharing
 

Nnbal

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All of these besides the Freedom Flight page, are directed for mammals or chickens. The chicken one says only these benefits, only one of which would be useful for parrots:

View attachment 381596




Parrot Shop link has no supporting evidence

No idea who cuteness dot com is but also no supporting evidence.

Holistic Birds cautions about dosing - what is the correct dose?? That's the key take away.


You could do more harm than good adding this to the diet.
Of course I don't give my parrot everything I hear. I think of his goodness. Thank you. :)
 

Nnbal

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Here’s a trustworthy source. Scroll halfway down for echinacea. @Nnbal this might give you the dosage also. Note that it’s a tincture.

Yes it looks reliable. I know natural remedies are very effective and have no side effects. Of course, I can give my parrot what is also suitable in moderation. I will search. Thank you for sharing.
 

Ripshod

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Take a visit back to the last link in post #16. It clearly states "Give as directed by your veterinarian".
Don't give it unless prescribed.
 

finchly

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Take a visit back to the last link in post #16. It clearly states "Give as directed by your veterinarian".
Don't give it unless prescribed.
Correct

But I don’t know of any holistic/ alternative med veterinarians, do you?

So you’d never be told to use herbs. Yet many medications are derivatives of plants.:shrug:
 

Mizzely

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Yes it looks reliable. I know natural remedies are very effective and have no side effects. Of course, I can give my parrot what is also suitable in moderation. I will search. Thank you for sharing.
This is blatantly not true. I agree that natural stuff has its place, but natural stuff can indeed have bad side effects.
 

Ripshod

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Herbal medicine is a bit of a quagmire though, isn't it?
My grandmother used to give my mother a small dose of Deadly Nightshade as a laxative whenever she 'seemed' constipated. Yeah, all well and good if you don't make any errors - ever.
 

Ripshod

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I'll not leave it there because that article is about the oil.
To be considered is the season it's harvested and the weather conditions when it was growing. One cup of tea could have twice as much oil as the cup before.
 

finchly

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I know with humans you stop after 30 days.


Herbal medicine is a bit of a quagmire though, isn't it?
My grandmother used to give my mother a small dose of Deadly Nightshade as a laxative whenever she 'seemed' constipated. Yeah, all well and good if you don't make any errors - ever.
My dad used to give me “knockout juice”. Guess what was in it??

Whiskey! In juice!!! Good thing I don’t have alcoholic tendencies! :laugh:
 

Nnbal

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Take a visit back to the last link in post #16. It clearly states "Give as directed by your veterinarian".
Don't give it unless prescribed.
All veterinarians prefer man-made medicines. And these have many more side effects. I will prefer natural remedies in moderation. Thank you.
 

Tiel Feathers

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Dr. David McCluggage is a well known holistic avian vet that does phone consultations. I have talked with him several times and he is the vet I get my probiotics from.
 

tka

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You can either think natural remedies work - that they have powerful medicinal properties, can be used to treat infection or support the immune system etc and therefore also have side effects and you need to be careful with dosage OR you can believe that they're totally safe, have no side effects, don't require precise dosage and therefore are basically inert. You can't have it both ways.

I don't dispute that natural remedies can have medicinal properties, but I want to see solid, double-blind, rigorously controlled trials that support their use. Resources like the Cochrane Library (for human medicine) are invaluable for bringing together evidence and giving access to meta-analyses - basically taking lots of studies conducted on a drug under similar conditions and collating them to identify trends in larger populations.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/

You can read their analysis of research into echinacea as a preventative for the common cold here: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cds...ub3/full?highlightAbstract=echinacea|echinace

As @Ripshod says, natural remedies are often variable in strength and potency - the reason we take aspirin tablets rather than chew willow bark is because the active ingredient has been isolated and we can control the dosage precisely. We don't have to guess the potency based on growing season, weather etc. There are no standard formulations for echinacea: the preparations we can buy are often manufactured in different ways, available in different forms, use material from different species, use different parts of the plant (roots, flowers, juice etc) that are grown and harvested in different conditions, and are made to different strengths.

I don't mind experimenting on myself, but I refuse to subject Leia to substances that could be difficult for her digestive system, kidneys and liver to process without having a measurable benefit.
 

Hankmacaw

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@tka Thank you. I couldn't have said it better - so I didn't say anything. Nothing takes the place of controlled peer reviewed research that adheres to the world wide accepted scientific methods. Herbs are not a pure substance and the plant may include many chemicals and other substances that are harmful. No one knows exactly how an individual or bird will react to any particular herb - it just isn't safe.

If I were to give anyone advice - I'd say don't use any medicinal herbs (with the exception of milk thistle, which has had research) - use the medication prescribed by your vet.
 

Nnbal

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I am not against science or medicines, you all put a sad emoji in my post.I'm not doing anything bad and I'm not giving my parrot a plant that is poisonous. For example amaryllis or shamrock.
I spoke with 3 avian veterinarians. They said, of course, it would be beneficial to give him a measured amount of non-toxic herbs. I am not experimenting with my parrot. Echinacea and pickled milk do not belong to the toxic plants category. There is no one who has poisoned her parrot with echinacea to make his sick. Because it is not a poison. Unless I definitely overuse. I did not tell her that I would give him echinacea 50 times a day.Giving it every once in a while would never hurt him. If there was any harm, it would be named in the poisonous plants category. I love my parrot. I'm not trying to hurt him. Thank you everyone for their comments.
 
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finchly

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I am not against science or medicines, you all put a sad emoji in my post.I'm not doing anything bad and I'm not giving my parrot a plant that is poisonous. For example amaryllis or shamrock.
I spoke with 3 avian veterinarians. They said, of course, it would be beneficial to give him a measured amount of non-toxic herbs. I am not experimenting with my parrot. Echinacea and pickled milk do not belong to the toxic plants category. There is no one who has poisoned her parrot with echinacea to make his sick. Because it is not a poison. Unless I definitely overuse. I did not tell her that I would give him echinacea 50 times a day.Giving it every once in a while would never hurt him. If there was any harm, it would be named in the poisonous plants category. I love my parrot. I'm not trying to hurt him. Thank you everyone for their comments.
As you can see, this is not a group that leans toward alternative therapies. I do, but that's because of what I already said - in fact twice in my life, alternative medicine made the difference for me when medical doctors failed me.

There's not a lot of research on it, but there's not that much research on birds at all. I'm glad you found avian veterinarians to work with.

I use things like kelp, egg shells and charcoal in my birds' routine.

After we had this chat, I made neem tea this morning and gave it to:
-the cockatiel that's sick
-a finch that was sick when I got her last June, still has the same symptoms, and has been treated for everything under the sun
-a finch that is a twirler, someone dropped him off
-a finch that's foot was apparently bitten by another bird.

Will let you know how it goes. :)
 

Hankmacaw

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Sparkles!

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I am not against science or medicines, you all put a sad emoji in my post.I'm not doing anything bad and I'm not giving my parrot a plant that is poisonous. For example amaryllis or shamrock.
I spoke with 3 avian veterinarians. They said, of course, it would be beneficial to give him a measured amount of non-toxic herbs. I am not experimenting with my parrot. Echinacea and pickled milk do not belong to the toxic plants category. There is no one who has poisoned her parrot with echinacea to make his sick. Because it is not a poison. Unless I definitely overuse. I did not tell her that I would give him echinacea 50 times a day.Giving it every once in a while would never hurt him. If there was any harm, it would be named in the poisonous plants category. I love my parrot. I'm not trying to hurt him. Thank you everyone for their comments.
While giving a tiny amount of echinacea to Pasha “every once and awhile” probably won’t hurt him, it’s simply very probable to not do any good for him- or do anything, really other than maybe make you feel as though you’re doing something good for him. As a healthcare practitioner, I’ve had patients ask for alternative or homeopathic medicine in lieu of “traditional western medicine” (as someone called it) and my answer to them has always been the same. If the science isn’t there, and I mean irrefutable science, then all you are is consuming something potentially unsafe at worst and a waste of money at best. There is that placebo effect- you feel better because you feel more in control or feel as though the substance is “working” and symptoms improve just due to our brains feeling better- and there is value in that. If you feel you must make some echinacea tea for Pasha, because you are worried about him post antibiotic therapy... then by all means as he is your parrot. I do want you to know that side effects have been documented from over use, and the majority of documentation report nothing clinically improved. So you may well just be separating yourself from your cash for naught. But perhaps it will make you feel better, and one cannot put a price on relief.
 
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