Does he know?

[Imogena]

Does my two years old TAG male know that four month old CAG female is a child? Or for him she is a female and age doesn't matter

 

[expressmailtome]

Bump.

 

[Kiwi & Co.]

@ncGreyBirdLady ?

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

Do you know for sure that you have a male and a female? Is the older one trying to feed or mate with the younger one?

 

[Imogena]

I'm sure. Both are DNA tested. The older one tries to feed the younger one. But it looks like he doesn't know exactly what to do. He regurgitates and "feeds" her but I didn't see anything passing from his beak to hers. When he regurgitates and actualy has something in his beak he eats it himself. I can see that she wants it but he doesn't give her.
He also tried to jump on her back but it happened only once and could be an accident. This I'm not sure

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

I really don't think they know one from another.My greys feed bells/toys and the ones that do get along will feed each other.When my guys were much younger they all got along great.As they got older that all changed

 

[Imogena]

I really don't think they know one from another.My greys feed bells/toys and the ones that do get along will feed each other.When my guys were much younger they all got along great.As they got older that all changed

Oh. Could you please say more about them? How they were and how they changed?

 

[Imogena]

So Edgar tries to climb Akira's back. This first time wasn't an accident. She doesn't let him.

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

When they were young they would all get along and could have out of cage time together.When they started to mature(around 5ish) they started showing likes and dislikes amongst the flock.Horse and Grumpy are the only ones that have continued to groom and feed each other.Grumpy also likes Gemini but I dont allow them any contact because Gemini doesn't want to be bothered.BamBam just hangs out and doesnt bother with the others.GrizzleBird and Tucker hang out together but do not groom or feed each other.Then there is Gigglebutt and GrizzleBird that fight like a couple of feral male catsThey hate each other and I cannot even keep them in the same room anymore.Sterling and Ziggy dont bother anybirdy else.I do want to point out that I have not had any of my greys sexed so my experience cant really help you.

 

[JLcribber]

If these were wild birds the older one would certainly recognize the other one as a "juvenile" and be treated as such. Breeding/captivity does strange things to them.

Was he trying to feed her or was she asking to be fed? That would be a juvenile response.

 

[Imogena]

@ncGreyBirdLady Wow, amazing. What a flock you have. It is very interesting to read about interactions between them. If you ever would like to write more, please do. I'm really interested about them. They are fascinating. And what is their relationship with you? Wow, I'm amazed. Truly.
Do I see right? Do you have TAGs as well?

@JLcribber He is often trying to feed her. When he does it, she wants to be fed but she doesn't beg herself. Also Edgar, as far as I can see, doesn't give her anything during this "feeding". When he actually has something in his beak, he eats it himself and Akira is watching like she wants it. But she doesn't beg. She just looks. Sometimes it looks like she is feeding Edgar, but it is always Edgar who starts it.
She was begging from me when she came to me. It lasted a little more than two weeks and then she stopped. I gave her mashed banana on the teaspoon but since she stopped begging, I stopped giving her banana this way.

Edgar is also trying to jump or climb on her back. She is protesting. He also likes to pick on her wing, which Akira hates and screams right to his ear.
But please, notice, Edgar is two years old TAG, Akira is four months old CAG. I think TAGs get mature sooner than Congos.

They get along quite well I think, but Edgar is quite stubborn whith doing things Akira doesn't like. Fortunately Akira is quite good with setting boundaries. If she doesn't want something she screams and Edgar stops. But he starts right after a moment.
They are out together no more than one week now. Before I was rotating their time out, but they lived close to each other in their cages. I think it is still the time of establishing some rules. They are not aggresive towards each other.

 

[JLcribber]

Well all juvenile birds “practice” being adults even though they aren’t. Around 3-5 years old is when it will start to become a real thing when actual hormones start to become involved.

 

[Imogena]

Well all juvenile birds “practice” being adults even though they aren’t. Around 3-5 years old is when it will start to become a real thing when actual hormones start to become involved.

That's what I thought actually. But I wasn't sure. Well, Akira is not that happy with Edgar's practicing.
How do you think it may go? If they act towards each other this way now do you think they may bond and become mates later? Or it doesn't mean anything now?

 

[JLcribber]

That's what I thought actually. But I wasn't sure. Well, Akira is not that happy with Edgar's practicing.
How do you think it may go? If they act towards each other this way now do you think they may bond and become mates later? Or it doesn't mean anything now?

As I said. Captivity does strange things. There’s no crystal ball for how these will play out. The constant stress of bugging the little one isn’t ideal.

 

[Imogena]

As I said. Captivity does strange things. There’s no crystal ball for how these will play out. The constant stress of bugging the little one isn’t ideal.

Do you think it would be better to reduce their time together? I'm not sure what to do. Each time they go out together looks like this: They fly around (mostly Edgar chasing Akira, but she doesn't seem nervous about it). Then they sit, rest, "feed" each other. Then Edgar does something Akira doesn't like, so she screams to his ear. Then he does it again, then they fly, rest, feed. After a few rounds like this both have enough. They sit calmly or Edgar trains with me and Akira is watching. And then again. Flying, feeding, screaming.
Also when Akira has enough she just refuses to leave her cage. Edgar wants to go out always. Everytime I offer he wants out. And of course he often calls to be let out. Akira on the other side doesn't call that often. Not as much as Edgar. And sometimes she just doesn't want to go out. Because either she is sleepy or tired or busy with one of her toys.
When I want to train with Akira I have take her out separately because Edgar is interrupting.
But the funny thing is when Edgar doesn't want to go back to his cage. I call him and he doesn't want to come to my hand. Then I call Akira who almost always comes. So I have Akira on my hand, I call Edgar and he comes. Then I can put him to his cage and reward him. This happened recently but it works.

 

[JLcribber]

I would intervene when he starts bugging her. Change focus whatever. Right now there’s no consequence for his actions.

 

[Imogena]

I would intervene when he starts bugging her. Change focus whatever. Right now there’s no consequence for his actions.

That's what I do when things are to rough. The thing is when Edgar is focused so much on Akira he is unresponsive to me. He just doesn't react. The only thing I could do in this situation is to raise my voice (which I do when he is too much for her. It is not even shouting. I have this special tone of voice when I'm reprimending Edgar. I say hey, hey, calm. It is a little louder then my normal voice and much sterner). I also can wave something but I did this once and both got scarred.