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Divorce! Well... separation...

Atomiklan

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So I am sad to announce that Charlie and Emma have been separated for the time being. I noticed that Emma was spending an unusual amount of time out of the nest. Usually they trade off pretty regularly. I decided to watch them closely and it turns out Charlie was being very aggressive towards Emma if she came near the nest. He would lung out of the nest to attack and scare her off and then would promptly return to the nest. I went ahead and removed Charlie from the nest and put him on the other side of the cage and let Emma keep the coconut side. So for the time being they are separated, but not quite divorced I guess. Still a sad day for the Robinson flock. Will continue to monitor them closely. Looking forward to your comments and similar experiences.
 

iamwhoiam

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Sorry that Charlie & Emma needed to be separated. Maybe they can visit each other with supervision.
I had to separate a bonded pair of red-bellied parrots when Ricky pulled Lucy's skin away from her beak and she needed stitches. They do miss each other and they can visit but I wouldn't feel comfortable putting them back together in the same cage. They were together for about 14 years and had a few babies.
 

Atomiklan

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It may just be that they need to be separated around this time. Charlie seems to behave this way towards the end of their nesting cycle when he gets sexually frustrated... Poor Charlie and Emma :(
 

Atomiklan

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Ok so I decided to do a quick experiment before I officially separate them for an extended period of time. Don't worry, it was highly supervised. Emma was back in the coconut, so I decided to reintroduce Charlie to see how they both would behave. Charlie eventually made his way over to the coconut like normal. Hopped inside like normal and Emma left shortly after. It felt like a pretty normal trade off for egg sitting duty. I continued to observe them waiting for Emma to return to the nest. I was particularly interested to see if Charlie would repeat his aggression again. Emma approached cautiously and Charlie took a semi aggressive stance inside the nest but did not lunge out this time to chase her away. Emma then hopped inside and settled down on the eggs like normal. Charlie seemed a little perturbed and held his beak open looking at her as if he was gonna try to pluck her eye out. He eventually moved to the outside edge of the coconut and let her resume egg sitting duty. Then strangely all the aggression passed and he started preening her. It's been a few minutes now since typing this and they are back snuggled together like nothing is wrong. It's amazing how quickly their emotions and behaviors flip flop. I am not convinced by a long shot that they are ok together again. Charlie was never dangerous aggressive (at least not yet), but I figured earlier when I started this post that it would be better to separate them now before things did escalate to harmful levels. Comments, especially from fellow finch owners would be highly appreciated! @finchly advice? Thank you!
 

finchly

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Weird birds! I'm surprised he is aggressive at all. I have a weirdo male right now too. He's a Gouldian. He discovered this nest box, cockatiel size of all things, and decided to own it. He filled the entire floor with plenty of straw and paper shreds. In fact it's about 1/2" deep, this is pretty impressive for Goulds who are terrible nest builders. So I let out several hens. He's having nothing to do with any of them! He doesn't even check them out -- just chases them away. I think he just wants to admire the beauty of his creation. :lol:

OK Charlie. Hmmm. You know, I do not give second chances - if they're aggressive they lose the partnership and have to move away to another cage. How do they act when separate? Do they whine and hang on the bars gazing at each other, or do they go on about their business?

Are these real eggs? If so I'd give them to Charlie. Single males do a better job than single hens of raising babies.
 

Atomiklan

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Right now since they are egg sitting they usually do their own thing since they are trading off sitting on the eggs (plastic). One comes out to take a bath, eat, drink, get some exercise, etc. then they trade and the other does the same thing. They both cuddle together at night and were cuddled together this morning. At this point I am going to keep monitoring them. We'll see what happens over the next few days.
 

finchly

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I see. That all sounds normal. I can't understand why Charlie occasionally acts out.
 

Atomiklan

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Yeah they were at each other again today. Even Emma was being defensive now when she is in the nest and Charlie was nearby. I think she is starting to get scared of Charlie. Looks like the separation needs to be permanent until at least they are done egg sitting. Seems he cools down after that. At least that's what happened last time.
 

finchly

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It's up to you. No second chances at my house -- and that's why. It always happens again.
 

Atomiklan

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:( They were soooooo cute together and I was planning on breeding them at some point... I guess its too late for that now.
 

finchly

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Well, he's not actually hurting her, right? So they are just squabbling and you are overreacting?

Or is it worse than that.
 

Atomiklan

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No I am just overreacting currently. That's why I still have not permanently separated them yet. I keep going back and forth watching them very very closely. I wonder what would happen if I took out the fake eggs. She layed her first egg of second clutch on 17/10/15 so it has been 24 days. I was going to let them sit on them a bit longer this time because I wanted to try to discourage them from immediately going at it again. I wonder though if the behavior would completely disappear once the eggs were removed from the equation. Remember, this happened last time right around this time.
 

finchly

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Remove the coconut shell and the eggs. They may squabble at first but they'll settle down.

If she is really determined to have eggies though she will lay them in the food dish or some other clever place.
 

Atomiklan

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Ah that's a good idea. I got so used to them having the coconut, that I completely forgot that I told myself long ago that if I reached this point, I would pull it out. Will take it out tonight and observe their behavior. Good bye cute coconut hut (for now). Better the coconut than one of finches though. Thanks!
 

finchly

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Good. They really don't need it; it's us who need it for them. :laugh:
 

Atomiklan

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Tonight should be interesting. They are currently together and I am away from house for a bit. When I get home in a few hours I will be curious to see if they are both asleep in the coconut or if Charlie has kicked Emma out of the nest for the night.
 

Atomiklan

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Well I somewhat expected this. Apparently they just argue during the day haha. Emma and Charlie are snuggled together in the nest for the night. I will be watching them closely tomorrow and as soon as I see a repeat of the behavior I will be removing the nest. Then we'll see how they react. Stay tuned tomorrow.
 

Atomiklan

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Alright so when I got up this morning, Emma was out and Charlie was guarding the nest. I went ahead and removed Charlie and then removed the nest. Charlie got understandably "barky". Emma seemed indifferent at first, but eventually it seemed she knew something was wrong and she looked a little forlorn. Here is Charlie after about 20 minutes of barking. This is him actually settling down. At first he was very vocally agitated.


Here is poor Emma wondering what happened to her nest :(


Charlie is calming down, but still is having random bouts of vocal agitation. They are still not really interacting and seem like they are still arguing, but no attacks yet today.
 

finchly

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Charlie!!! Calm down my friend. My he is part chihuahua or something.

I'll bet after hormones settle you can put them back together. I know males watch the nest during the day but I"ve never seen one be agressive to the hen. Poor Emma!
 

Atomiklan

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That's him pretty calm in that video too! Usually he does not sit still, is much louder (same barking noise), and the frequency of the barks is MUCH higher! Like several per second. Also, notice how in the video with Emma, Charlie has completely calmed down and is making normal society finch chirps in the background? Since my last post, things have gotten MUCH more peaceful. Charlie seems back to his old self. They are both perching quietly, although not together. One is on each side of the cage (by choice, not by physical barrier). They have been flying around the kitchen like normal and playing on Lada's new ropes and boing. I am not considering the issue fixed yet, but things definitely seem a lot more peaceful for now. I have been wrong before though... Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
 
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