Diabetic Blue and Gold

[missscoot]

There's this quick website meant for humans.... Herbs Hands Healing - Body Systems - Pancreas

Mentions kiwi fruit, cinnamon, bigger and sour flavors, fenugreek leaves(?) and sweet root vegetables (aka yams), bitter gourd and herbs.

Jason Crean does have blends of tea he created...

Herbs Hands Healing - Body Systems - Pancreas



Beyond that, not really sure. I would suggest consulting an avian vet if you can find one who is willing to speak with you.

I think you are a mind reader Monica!! I just sent an email to my vet to update him on Mickey and has asked him if there were any supplemenst that I could give Mickey to help support her pancreas like Milk Thistle does for the liver. When I finished that I came on here and here is this post!!!! Now I can go read up on this and then wait and see what he suggests too. Thanks again!

 

[missscoot]

I hesitate to post this because I am not sure i did the right thing but at this time I feel i did, if only that it solves a little bit of the puzzle. I have been told several times during this process that sometimes you need to follow your gut and that is what I did. The day before last I was so worried about how little Mikey was eating and how little fluid was in her urine and how her stool was smaller and there was less of it, that I made a decision to not put the glipizide in her water and see what happens. If her blood sugar strips had been reading high I wouldn't have done this but since they haven't been for several days I felt desperate enough to try it. Even though her weight remained somewhat the same I knew she wasn't eating enough. I feel that maybe she was gaining muscle mass since I have been making sure she was getting exercise and was more active. I wanted to see if it was possible that the glipizide was effecting her appetite. And this morning as I have been sitting her on the computer doing more researching, updating my vet and typing this, Mickey has been on her tree stand for over an hour and has eaten more than she has eaten the most she has in the last two weeks. I have no doubts now that the glipizide has affected her appetite! Now I am not sure what to do about this because I am sure she will need to go back on when her sugar levels rise but at least it solves a little of the mystery. I have written to my vet regarding this and will be waiting to see what his reply will be. Hopefully I won't get a scolding.

 

[Macawnutz]

You are the only one that knows your bird. You are not being naive in her care or pretending nothing is wrong. If you were comfortable enough to try it than that's good enough for me.

Just make sure you are writing everything down. Foods/meds in and overall idea of wellness coming out.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Always trust your gut. You have studied and asked questions and considered everything enough now, that knowledge and experience is part of your gut feeling. Like Sarah says - no one (including your vet) knows your bird as well as you do. Just make sure you have a backup plan.

 

[Clueless]

Daily journal of all of it will help answer questions later.

 

[Monica]

Yes, one of the links was for humans. I purposely didn't mention garlic. Some people *do* feed garlic to their birds, but it's in such minute amounts that it's harmless. As a general rule, I don't recommend it, nor do I feed it. Rather be safe than sorry!

It was more for a "guideline" slash "ideas" to consider! Do some more research before digging right in!


Would it be possible to give smaller doses of glipizide?

 

[enigma731]

In this case, I don't think you'd want to support the pancreas, since it seems likely that it's over-producing hormones rather than under-producing. I'd be careful with supplements that might increase pancreatic efficiency. Unfortunately there aren't any supplements that reliably improve insulin sensitivity.

 

[missscoot]

In this case, I don't think you'd want to support the pancreas, since it seems likely that it's over-producing hormones rather than under-producing. I'd be careful with supplements that might increase pancreatic efficiency. Unfortunately there aren't any supplements that reliably improve insulin sensitivity.

Good point!!!!! Didn't think of that. Thank you. I was just thinking, the pancreas isn't working right, what can I do to fix it! Maybe it is the wrong approach.

 

[missscoot]

I do have a chart on excel that i am trying to keep track of everything and writing notes there too. But it is nice to have a reminder to keep at it. Sometimes I let it slide. Thank you.

 

[missscoot]

Thank you all for the encouraging words regarding my knowing Mickey best and trusting my gut. But thankfully I have a lot of support on this forum too and that is what helps the most. Even above my vet, research, and my gut!!!!

 

[missscoot]

Yes, please consult with Dr. Orosz. I have not experienced it (knocking on wood) but I know of at least one client that had a bird with it.

A little update: I received an email from Dr. Orosz today. This is what she wrote:

"The glipizide in the water is good. From a diet perspective you want to keep carbohydrates down and will want more protein and fat. Lafeber Avi-Cakes (parrot size) would be a good choice for primary diet: 12.5% protein, 4.5% crude fat, 5% fiber. To watch the sugars, avoid fruit. Vegetables would be supplemental (green beans, pea pods, parsley, yams), and nuts such as walnuts.


You could space meals throughout the day, if possible, to try to keep sugar levels even.


There isn't much out there going on in research today. In the 80s and early 90s, I worked with a researcher, but he left for another position and that's about the last as I recall.


Thank you for contacting us. Sorry for the delay in getting back."

 

[Clueless]

A little update: I received an email from Dr. Orosz today. This is what she wrote:

"The glipizide in the water is good. From a diet perspective you want to keep carbohydrates down and will want more protein and fat. Lafeber Avi-Cakes (parrot size) would be a good choice for primary diet: 12.5% protein, 4.5% crude fat, 5% fiber. To watch the sugars, avoid fruit. Vegetables would be supplemental (green beans, pea pods, parsley, yams), and nuts such as walnuts.


You could space meals throughout the day, if possible, to try to keep sugar levels even.


There isn't much out there going on in research today. In the 80s and early 90s, I worked with a researcher, but he left for another position and that's about the last as I recall.


Thank you for contacting us. Sorry for the delay in getting back."

I'm telling you, this vet just rocks in my book.

She cares about the feathers. She just cares. It is so obvious when I heard her speak.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes, Dr. Orosz is one of the very best. She and my vet are good friends and he speaks of her in awe.

 

[missscoot]

Well I just heard back from my vet after emailing an update on Mickey, my concerns about glipizide effecting her appetite and explaining why I stopped it for several days and I also had asked if there was a problem stopping it "cold turkey" like I did and also if there was any supplements to support the pancreas (this was before reading the post above about pancreas support) and about giving her fruit. This was his reply:

I would avoid fruit since simple sugar.

Yes, ok to discontinue the glipizide cold turkey. Please continue to monitor urine volumes and urine sugar.

Milk thistle has been documented to support liver but not pancreas. At this time, the best support is to avoid fast (which is not a big part of bird’s diets to begin with).

So I have another opinion to stay away from fruit but my vet says to avoid fats (at least I am pretty sure that's what he meant yet Dr. Orosz says MORE protein and "fat"

And now that I am quite sure that glipizide is causing her loss of appetite what do I do now? Glipizide does appear to help but if she isn't going to eat enough what good is it? There is another option of Glyburide but one of the side effects of that, is "feeling full" so I can't see that being much different. I am beginning to think the treatments for diabetes are not any better then the disease, at least that's what it feels like right now especially when you read all the possible side effects. I certainly can understand why some people want to find a more natural supplement for illness in their birds. I just want to get her diet straight and hope that then I can possibly
get her off it completely or even just be able to decrease the amount she gets.

 

[missscoot]

Yes, one of the links was for humans. I purposely didn't mention garlic. Some people *do* feed garlic to their birds, but it's in such minute amounts that it's harmless. As a general rule, I don't recommend it, nor do I feed it. Rather be safe than sorry!

It was more for a "guideline" slash "ideas" to consider! Do some more research before digging right in!


Would it be possible to give smaller doses of glipizide?

Sorry Monica, just was backtracking in my reading and saw this question that I missed before. We have already reduced it some. Maybe a little more would be the next step. Thanks for the thought.

 

[missscoot]

I looked up the ingredients in the Avi-Cakes for parrots

Ground corn, canary grass seed, cracked corn, white proso millet, hulled oats, wheat flour, sugar, peanuts, red millet, soybean meal, ground limestone, dicalcium phosphate, canola oil, whole egg, corn gluten meal, cane molasses, gelatin, glycerine, iodized salt, L-lysine (an essential amino acid), dl-methionine ( an essential amino acid), choline chloride, citric acid, mixed tocopherols (a preservative), manganous oxide, zinc oxide, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, (source of vitamin K activity), niacin supplement, calcium dipantothenate, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin, ascorbic acid, sodium selenite.

They have sugar and cane molasses in them. I don't understand why that would be good for Mickey. I changed her pellets to Harrison's because of the sugar in Kaytee Originals and now it is suggested that I use another one with sugar and cane molasses??? Did I look up the wrong product?

Guaranteed Analysis:

 

[webchirp]

I looked up the ingredients in the Avi-Cakes for parrots

Ground corn, canary grass seed, cracked corn, white proso millet, hulled oats, wheat flour, sugar, peanuts, red millet, soybean meal, ground limestone, dicalcium phosphate, canola oil, whole egg, corn gluten meal, cane molasses, gelatin, glycerine, iodized salt, L-lysine (an essential amino acid), dl-methionine ( an essential amino acid), choline chloride, citric acid, mixed tocopherols (a preservative), manganous oxide, zinc oxide, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, (source of vitamin K activity), niacin supplement, calcium dipantothenate, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin, ascorbic acid, sodium selenite.

They have sugar and cane molasses in them. I don't understand why that would be good for Mickey. I changed her pellets to Harrison's because of the sugar in Kaytee Originals and now it is suggested that I use another one with sugar and cane molasses??? Did I look up the wrong product?

Guaranteed Analysis:

Email them again...perhaps the molasses breaks down differently? Edit:

Is blackstrap molasses dangerous for diabetics? | Reference.com

 

[Monica]

That's the correct product. Most people here feed it as a treat, but it can be offered as a main diet. I'm not crazy about the sweets either, but you could always get a small bag to try?


From my limited knowledge, I would tend to agree more with Dr Orosz.

 

[webchirp]

Looks like it has a lower glycemic index and processed more slowly.

 

[Macawnutz]

I wonder if roudybush makes an acceptable diet? I'm not sure how many of you know but they make an extensive RX line.

Roudybush Direct