Corn, wheat, soy - main ingredients in many pellets

[Vincent]

What do you know about corn, wheat, and soy in bird pellets? Are they filler, or well-rounded nutrition for birds?

I recently went to TOPS site and read their position on those ingredients, and they make a compelling case. On the other hand, some of the major brands that use corn, wheat, and soy appear to be well researched; many avian vets recommend those brands. I'm planting my flag in the TOPS camp for the moment, but don't know enough about bird nutrition to be sure.

 

[Lady Jane]

I believe corn is a filler. I traveled far and wide virtually to find a brand that does not use fillers. It is Goldenfeast. Goldenfeast Direct

 

[Mizzely]

The biggest issue with TOPS is it doesn't have Vitamin D3, so you'll need to either have your bird outside several times a week for sunlight, or give a supplement that includes it.

Corn, soy, wheat are cheaper ingredients, yes, but parrots are not dogs or cats. They generally do well grains as part of the diet.

 

[Lady Jane]

Those 3 ingredients are also known to be the most allergy producing grains and almost always gmo.

https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2014/04/02/problem-feeding-corn-parrots/

 

[Vincent]

The biggest issue with TOPS is it doesn't have Vitamin D3, so you'll need to either have your bird outside several times a week for sunlight, or give a supplement that includes it.

TOPS addresses vitamin D on their FAQ page. They say that rather than adding artificial D3, the seaweed and alfalfa in their pellets has natural vitamin D.

By the way, I'm not associated with TOPS. I just read their website when researching pellets for my budgie.

Corn, soy, wheat are cheaper ingredients, yes, but parrots are not dogs or cats. They generally do well grains as part of the diet.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the cats and dogs comparison. Are corn, wheat, and soy the main ingredients in cheaper dog and cat food?

 

[Mizzely]

TOPS addresses vitamin D on their FAQ page. They say that rather than adding artificial D3, the seaweed and alfalfa in their pellets has natural vitamin D.

By the way, I'm not associated with TOPS. I just read their website when researching pellets for my budgie.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the cats and dogs comparison. Are corn, wheat, and soy the main ingredients in cheaper dog and cat food?

I looked into the D3 in Alfalfa, and birds would need to eat about 2 lbs a day to get enough from it. I am not sure about the amount from seaweed.

Yes, corn, wheat, and soy are fillers in cat and dog food, which is often why people assume they are fillers in parrot food.

 

[Mizzely]

D3 in Alfalfa: The isolation and identification of vitamin D2 and vitamin D3 from Medicago sativa (alfalfa plant) - PubMed

Also I just looked at their ingredients, and the only seaweeds they list are purple dulse and kelp. All of the D3 supplements I found that contained kelp were using the kelp for iodine.

I have looked at several websites and "kelp" contains 0 iu of D3. I could not find any for information for purple dulse.

Risks and benefits of consuming edible seaweeds

Recent interest in seaweeds as a source of macronutrients, micronutrients, and bioactive components has highlighted prospective applications within the functional food and nutraceutical industries, with impetus toward the alleviation of risk factors associated ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Only 1 study to date has analyzed the vitamin D3 content of seaweeds, reporting amounts of 0.83 mg/100 g of dry weight in Fucus spiralis and 1.05 mg/100 g of dry weight in Porphyra spp.26 This equates to 41.5 μg (415% of RNI) and 63.5 μg (635% of RNI) in a 5-g dried portion of Fucus spiralis and Porphyra spp, respectively.182 Further characterization studies are required to corroborate these findings, which suggest seaweed is a valuable dietary source of vitamin D.

It is important to note that some vegetable sources contain D2, which is of little to no use to parrots.

Vitamin D3 - Lady Gouldian Finch Supplies USA - Glamorous Gouldians

"Vitamin D in Cage Bird Nutrition - There are a variety of symptoms of vitamin D deficiency in cage birds, most of them related to calcium. In addition to the soft bones of rickets, in birds thin-shelled and soft-shelled eggs will be a prominent symptom. Clutches that are smaller than normal...

ladygouldianfinch.com

Some algaes and seaweeds have been shown to be GI irritants in cats, dogs, and people, so I hesitate to feed it.

Carrageenan: Safety, risks, and uses

Carrageenan is a controversial food additive. It is FDA-approved, but some scientists believe that it can cause inflammation, bowel disorders, and even certain cancers. In this article, we look at the research behind carrageenan, including its possible side effects, dangers, uses, and common...

www.medicalnewstoday.com

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Now I am not against TOPS. I think it is nice to have options for our birds. I don't like that they use alfalfa as the main binder as I think THAT is a filler for anything except grass eating species like rabbits and guinea pigs, but otherwise its fine as long as people understand that the amount of D3 in it is likely not sufficient.

 

[CrazyKozmo]

One of my caiques is a plucker...she's pucked out most of the feathers on her "sassy pants". I started her out on Harrisons (corn, soy, peanuts), that's when the plucking started (not sure if the food was the cause, I've had her vet checked. She's a pretty high-strung bird anyway. The plucking seems similar to people chewing their nails.....guilty here!). Now I feed her Hari's (by Hagen) Tropican Alternative pellets, which has no soy or corn. It contains wheat, peas, sweet potato, and pumpkin seeds. I get it at Windycityparrot.com. I think it is helping her plucking.....time will tell.

 

[Lady Jane]

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=5a55a0df56257ad8JmltdHM9MTY1OTQ2MDk1MyZpZ3VpZD0yOWMzNTg2ZC05YTU2LTRjODctODMyYy0zZTM5NzM4YjEzNzQmaW5zaWQ9NTIzNg&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=b1bd4e82-1287-11ed-8795-0d520309bb5a&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9wZXRrZWVuLmNvbS9iZXN0LXBhcnJvdC1wZWxsZXRzLw&ntb=1

 

[Pixiebeak]

I like Tops.

I hate all the soy and fillers in pellets! Soy is cheap cheap. Cheap! It's getting stuffed in all kinds of things. Its an pretty much a weed, has photo estrogen, can interfer with nutrients up take ...

Yes many/most pellets are just a cheap carb and protein source with added vitamins to meet their needs.

I prefer pellets to only be about 30% of my birds diet, with fresh making up a majority, plus 25% seed mix...thats me...not claiming I've got it right. But feather luster quick molts without every looking scruffy make me like I'm doing good. But mine ll really enjoys lots of variety of fresh stuff. And I take them outside a couple of times a week

 

[flyzipper]

Soy is cheap cheap. Cheap!

Thanks for sending me down this rabbit hole

There are many sources for this info, and they're not always consistent with each other because agriculture commodity prices are quite regionalized, but soy is currently about 2x the price of alfalfa. Soybean meal per metric ton is $528.00 (source) while alfalfa is $245 per ton with premium and supreme grades going for an average of $277 (source).

Soybeans (not meal) are currently $737.06 (source), and that makes the discrepancy even wider.

	Price per metric ton​	Price per ton​	Price per pound​
Soybean meal	$528​	-​	$0.2395​
Soybeans	$737​	-​	$0.3343​
Alfalfa	-​	$245​	$0.1225​
Alfalfa premium or supreme	-​	$277​	$0.1385​

 

[Pixiebeak]

Thanks for sending me down this rabbit hole

There are many sources for this info, and they're not always consistent with each other because agriculture commodity prices are quite regionalized, but soy is currently about 2x the price of alfalfa. Soybean meal per metric ton is $528.00 (source) while alfalfa is $245 per ton with premium and supreme grades going for an average of $277 (source).

Soybeans (not meal) are currently $737.06 (source), and that makes the discrepancy even wider.

	Price per metric ton​	Price per ton​	Price per pound​
Soybean meal	$528​	-​	$0.2395​
Soybeans	$737​	-​	$0.3343​
Alfalfa	-​	$245​	$0.1225​
Alfalfa premium or supreme	-​	$277​	$0.1385​

Thanks for researching info ! I need to go down the rabbit hole next! Lol
Soy is subsidized , its used as a source of protein , for animals and us. Is alfa used the same way? Is the processing..are they sticking alfalfa in dog foods? ( I really don't know)

I grew up next to soy feilds....and deer and rabbit's and birds never touched the stuff...I'm nit even sure there was any insect damage..

 

[Mizzely]

I hate the term "filler" so much.

If they wanted to just make a cheap food they could just use corn, sugar, and add vitamins. But they don't.

Whether an ingredient is in a food as a vehicle for other ingredients, or to make it palatable, or to make it stick together, or to add natural nutrients, or to lower the cost so it is accessible by customers who live at a lower income bracket - those are all valid reasons to be in it. A valid reason to me is the antithesis of the word "filler".

 

[Pixiebeak]

Never Feed Birds Soy - Best Bird Food Ever!

Is soy good for birds? In spite of being commonly fed to birds, it could have negative effects in the health of your parrot. Find out why!

www.bestbirdfoodever.com

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Talks about some negative soy stuff.
Especially the photo estrogen

But I haven't found tge European study I really liked yet

 

[Pixiebeak]

The forum had a discussion on it years ago

no soy

I've made the decision to go 'no soy' in the birds diet; ie: no Harrison's High Potency pellets. Talk me down off the ledge :hehe: I want to reach for the Harrison's. I'm so worried they won't get enough of what they need.

forums.avianavenue.com

 

[Mizzely]

Never Feed Birds Soy - Best Bird Food Ever!

Is soy good for birds? In spite of being commonly fed to birds, it could have negative effects in the health of your parrot. Find out why!

www.bestbirdfoodever.com

.

Talks about some negative soy stuff.
Especially the photo estrogen

But I haven't found tge European study I really liked yet

This same person once said we shouldn't feed vegetables.

 

[Pixiebeak]

This same person once said we shouldn't feed vegetables.

Lol
Read some science articles, most conclusion was more studies needed

There is this which I find alarming.

14 Things That Happen To Your Body When You Eat Soy

Some say soy is a health food and others claim it's a dangerous science experiment. So what's really going on with soy?

www.eatthis.com

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Home / Healthy Eating / 14 Things That Happen To Your Body When You Eat Soy
HEALTHY EATING
14 Things That Happen To Your Body When You Eat Soy
Some say it's a health food and others claim it's a dangerous science experiment. So which is right?
By Olivia Tarantino
Published on April 19, 2016 | 8:21 A

1 You'll Probably Be Exposed To Carcinogens
Happen to your body soy GMO
Shutterstock
Smith tells us that the major concern with soy products is that they're so over-produced and over-processed—and the numbers certainly back her up. An astounding 94 percent of soybeans are genetically engineered in the US, according to the Center for Food Safety, which makes it the number one GM crop plant in the world. The issue here is that almost all genetically modified soybeans are designed to be "Roundup ready" (i.e. they're engineered to withstand heavy doses of

 

[Shezbug]

Just curious how much of anything including soy or these other "fillers" is ok to eat and exactly how much is too much?

I am happy with my guys eating a bit of anything and everything that comes from nature but I am not happy with any of them eating a heap of any one thing on regular basis.

I really think that soy or fillers as they have been called are fine to feed in moderation.

Gosh, I can not even recall how many times over the years that the dietary recommendations for so many foods changed significantly- I have real a hard time living my life by these ever changing recommendations- over my life I recall eggs, fish, meat, oils and sugars (just to name a few) going from a recommendation of eat more to eat hardly any or vise versa.

I am a total believer in everything is ok- in moderation....

 

[Mizzely]

My thing is that we should be careful to demonize any ingredient. It is true that not all diets or ingredients are good for all pets, but sometimes our ideology is a barrier that can cause harm, to our own pets or that of others.

Take my bird for example. If I had only given Ripley the option of a corn and soy free pellet, or only fresh foods, then it's very likely he would be dead right now. That's not an exaggeration. I've gotten him to eat exactly three things reliably in the almost 4 years I've had him: Zupreem Fruity, Almonds, and most recently Psittacus High Energy.

I do not think soy is without its concerns. There are very few foods in the world that are without debate. But absolute statements can be harmful.

 

[owlsthetic]

ARE ANTINUTRIENTS SAFE? LECTINS, OXALATES, PHYTATES AND MORE

Are Anti-Nutrients Harmful?

6 Antinutrients in Beans, Grains, and Veggies and How to Avoid Them

Can Parrots Eat Soybeans?

I have gone down this rabbit hole too and I agree everything in moderation. Anti-nutrients doesn't seem as bad as I thought and they can be neutralized through cooking/sprouting/soaking etc.

I started to read some study about the effects of soy/processed soy in poultry but I couldn't stomach finishing it after they mentioned slaughtering them during the study

I really like the last article (or blog post really) because it really goes into how controversial soy is