Colour mutation?

[Vittror]

Hello,
Can anyone perhaps tell me what colour mutation Blanchie is?
I tried to research it but there's SO much information about colour mutations under the sun and I'm not getting a clear answer.

@Finchbreed @Sparkles99 @Karearea

My Avian Vet said he might be a Halfsider since the markings on his face aren't symmetrical but what I understand Halfsiders are very rare.

I don't know Blanchie's origins as my mom got him from the animal shelter.

On one side Blanchie has a white marking on his cheek and thee throat spots (?) and on the other side he has a blue marking on his cheek and 1 big and 1 smaller throat spot (?) going on.
Normally on the side with the blue cheek marking there aren't any throat spots (?) at all but he is a bit molting at the moment and then all kinds of things seem to (be able to) happen with his plumage.

 

[expressmailtome]

It is possible that he is a half-sider, but he does not look like any that I have seen. Although, to be fair, you can technically have a half-sider that appears 100% as the normal phenotype as no mutations are present to be able to visually identify the bird as such.

 

[Sparkles99]

He looks like a single factor dominant pied. That plus being a blue series budgie would account for all of his markings, including the lack of symmetry.

 

[Karearea]

Totally agree on the sky blue SF dominant pied verdict. The way pied markings form on the bird is somewhat random, they are not symmetrical and at times can make the bird look like a half sider even though they're not. However, it would probably be pretty difficult to identify a half-sider where both sides have the same pied mutation and nothing else. So while it's not impossible that your birdie is one, it's better to assume a horse rather than a zebra.

Half-siders are very neat, though. They're a kind of chimera, which is when an individual is born with cells that come from at least one other individual. They happen when two zygotes (fertilized egg cells) fuse while they're still inside their mother and unprotected by an egg shell. How, when, and where they fuse determines where the "invading" individual's cells go. Sometimes they go to a part of the wing, the head, an organ, etc. However, if conditions are just right, the outside cells will form exactly half of the developing bird's body. These birds become half-siders. Usually we can only identify half-siders/chimeras if the individuals have different color mutations (or, in species like eclectus, sex). So, there are definitely a LOT of unidentified chimeras out there.

It's also important to note that chimeras/half siders aren't more likely to produce babies with the same condition. Whatever genes get passed on are related to the genes that happened to form the bird's sex organs, so either one set or the other. That's part of what makes them so special.

It's estimated that up to 10% of people are some kind of chimera, but it's impossible to tell or test in most instances. Something interesting to think about!

 

[Vittror]

Thanks a lot guys!
So if I understand correctly the pied factor accounts to his random markings, so the colour of his cheek markings and the not symmetric throat spots are due to that?

I used this site as visual reference to look up what you guys said and there is indeed a very much 'looking like Blanchie' budgie there as well.

Very interesting information about halfsiders, @Karearea !
I love reading about all these kind of things!

 

[Sparkles99]

Yes, single factor dominant pied isn’t symmetrical. I’ve got a budgie just like this (Frosting). This isn’t the most flattering photo, but you can see what the gene does & his pied spot (back of head, very common).



Yours is very heavily pied, but not enough to be a double factor. Those are practically all white or yellow, except for bits here & there, especially where the wings cross the back. Also an outtake, but it shows double factor nicely. This is teenage Aurelius. BTW, his other big throat spot is white.


Lastly, it’s possible for single factor dominant pied to be symmetrical, but it’s very rare & mistaken for other mutations. Winston, an ex-breeder budgie I bought from a closing aviary, looks phenotypically like a clearwing & was scammily sold as such to the aviary. He’s not. He’s a coincidentally symmetrical single factor dominant pied, as they discovered when breeding him.

 

[Finchbreed]

Blanchie is indeed a blue dominant pied.
What many many people - including some breeders - frequently get wrong - is how to tell a double factor from a single factor.
Single factors are pretty easy to tell visually.
But doubles are a whole different story - go to that site you looked at - look at the bird that is shown there as a double factor.
My mother bred 2 sisters from single factor pied to single factor pied.
So genetically they could be either single of double factor pieds - because they could have got 1 or 2 pied genes - visually they looked double.
But breeding these young ladies proved that neither was a double factor - both produced normal offspring.
This bloodline has now been going for some years - the line constantly produces birds that are 90% yellow or white - regardless of if the other partner is normal or pied - and not one has bred 100% pied chicks.
They just have strong pied genes - like families of heavily freckled people who keep producing heavily frecked kids regardless of their partner being almost freckle less.
It's all in the genes.

 

[Vittror]

Sorry for the late reaction everyone but all the answers and information truly cleared up a lot for me so thanks for all the answers!

Genetics and colour mutations and such are pretty interesting!

@Sparkles99 Thank you for the photos of Frosting and Aurelius as comparison between the differences between piedness!
I feel a bit silly but I thought Blanchie's 'pied spot (back of head, very common)' like you wrote about was something unique about him because (I don't know how) but never really noticed that with other birds before.
Might have been that I've never met another pied budgie or at least wasn't aware of it.
And I've always called his 'pied spot' his monk hairdo (affectionate) so there's that I guess

 

[Sparkles99]

Other budgies may have pied spots too, but only one has a monk hairdo.

I love budgies, so find it charming when someone attributes something ‘unique’ only to theirs. Budgies should be celebrated!

 

[GrGranGriz]

Do these mutations appear in wild budgies, too? What color are budgies in the wild? Are they multi-colored? I guess they must be.

Also, if these mutations are genetic, then do the genetic mutations also affect other things, like causing problems with the internal organs?

 

[Karearea]

Wild budgies are almost always the exact same, they are green with yellow, black/gray, and a bit of navy blue. Having uniformity in the wild helps them blend in with one another, making it harder for predators to single them out in order to catch them. Color mutations occur naturally all the time, but since that uniformity is broken, the mutants are usually killed off before they reach breeding age.

Thankfully, most color mutations only affect the bird's pigments. They rarely impact the bird's health, although inbreeding (which is needed to develop all recessive mutations) can allow for additional harmful genetic mutations to be passed down over time.

The only somewhat common issue tied to budgie color mutations is with red-eyed varieties. Taking away melanin from the eyes results in more sensitivity to sunlight and a higher likelihood of eye problems later in life.

 

[Finchbreed]

What Karearea said about wild budgies being green is correct.
A few blues, yellows and whites have turned up in the wild - but as said above the hawks say yum.
The rarer mutations may have turned up in the wild but this has not been verified.
They have turned up in domestic breeding situations, usually as a surprise for the breeder.
**** SPOILER ALERT - DO NOT CONTINUE TO READ IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE TRUTH ABOUT MUTATION DEVELOPMENT****
How mutations are developed affects their viability. If the smart breeder has a mutation turn up the sensible thing is to 1st put it back to the parent of the opposite sex to get more. Then outcross to unrelated pure normals.
Where the problems can come in is when someone who is not a smart breeder but a greedy one - follows step one - then continues to do the same again - instead of advancing to step 2.
****SPOILER ALERT - Genetic research has proven that inbreeding does not cause defects - it does however multiply any existing defects much faster. Which gives the impression that inbreeding causes defects.
Putting 2 totally unrelated creatures that happen to have the same faulty genes together will do exactly the same thing as putting 2 related creatures with faulty genes together.
40yrs of bird breeding by me and 60yrs of bird breeding by my mother, have confirmed the above over and over again.

 

[Sparkles99]

Thanks for posting the unvarnished truth about the process! I always suspected as much.

I would add to this that a loss of genetic diversity will result in an organism that is less hardy. They just seem more susceptible to illnesses. And many people have noted that random seed fed budgies used to live much longer than they tend to now.

 

[patchyjoon]

Hello,
Can anyone perhaps tell me what colour mutation Blanchie is?
I tried to research it but there's SO much information about colour mutations under the sun and I'm not getting a clear answer.

@Finchbreed @Sparkles99 @Karearea

My Avian Vet said he might be a Halfsider since the markings on his face aren't symmetrical but what I understand Halfsiders are very rare.

I don't know Blanchie's origins as my mom got him from the animal shelter.

On one side Blanchie has a white marking on his cheek and thee throat spots (?) and on the other side he has a blue marking on his cheek and 1 big and 1 smaller throat spot (?) going on.
Normally on the side with the blue cheek marking there aren't any throat spots (?) at all but he is a bit molting at the moment and then all kinds of things seem to (be able to) happen with his plumage.

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I can't add to this color discussion but just wanted to tell you he's so beutiful. He looks like a painting of a cloud on a sunny, clear day where the sky is radiantly blue.