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Cockatiel: First time handfeeder - rejected newborn *Sad update post #31*

Tara81

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Vet wrap is pretty common in the human medical field also- a simple search of something along the lines of self adhesive bandages should get you a hit or two- it does not have to be vet wrap, just self adhesive bandage
Something so simple yet so easily forgotten, lol.
 

Tara81

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Yes, that's the picture I was referring to... the proventriculus. Good find. However I am in Brazil and sadly I suspect most veterinarians here have not heard of "vet wrap". I can't recall any other materials that adhere to themselves but not to other things. I've found some vet wrap online, but it's actually imported (so weeks/months of delay and hefty import taxes). But I will ask my parents to show this picture to the veterinarian and maybe we can stitch something up. Though it's scary to think of wrapping up such a smol birb in anything that might constrict it.

Also, update, good news and bad news: the bad news is that the avian vet that was going to see the baby fell ill himself! So he's taking a day or two off. The other avian vet we found will only come to the city monday. Hopefully the chick will hang on for at least a little while.
The good news is that it seems the nystatin might be helping. While the last time I saw the chick it still had white specks inside the crop, it has not seriously ballooned since. I also fed it for half a day with more diluted formula and once gave him a swish of saline water and massaged the area where the formula was "sticking" and it seems to have worked in getting his crop moving. My parents report that it is both eating and emptying its crop. While the weak formula definitely did not have help its malnourishment (it still looks like a 3-day old, the poor fella), hopefully I made the right choice in getting the crop moving (though obviously a flush by an expert would probably have been better). It had also fell silent except when eating and my mother says it is now sometimes chirps when awake (as it was doing before it developed these yeast/slow crop issues).

The veterinarian that was available at the clinic offered to keep it there with someone to feed it overnight, but since the night vet was not knowledgeable about birds at all, all she would do is feed it and keep it at the right temperature. We decided to keep it at home for the time being. We can probably also react faster to things like the ballooning and fungal infections than an untrained, worried vet. Though after a video call with the avian specialist she was frank that its survival chances are rather slim. Hopefully I can update you all again with good news.
I’m really rooting for your little guy. I wish I knew more to help you. You can always just take it slow with wrapping the little chick, and cut the wrap/adhesive bandage into smaller proportions. I hope he survives long enough to be treated and fitted into a bird bra. @Zara do you have any advice on if he needs a bird bra, and how to make one without squishing little bird?
 

Zara

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@Zara do you have any advice on if he needs a bird bra, and how to make one without squishing little bird?
Sorry I don´t, but here is this article with a drawing of the template for a bra;

I remember conversing with @Britnicorn the other year with her chick with problems and she ended up using a bra. The problem is she can´t post here in the 911 forum.
 

Tara81

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I thought everyone could post here, maybe I am missing something. So looking at the pictures of the chick , you can't tell if it needs a crop bra or not?
@pavel maybe you can show us more pictures? Any updates? Maybe you can message Britnicorn for crop bra advice?
 

Zara

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@pavel I have moved your thread to the Nursery forum as it´s not restricted like the 911 forum. Maybe @Britnicorn has something she could add from her experience?
 

Britnicorn

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My budgie when I was hand raising him his first few days of life would move about a lot like that. Sat up and wobble until falling over. It’s normal, they’re just trying to figure the world and themselves out.

If you make the bra, put it on while the crop is empty so you don’t push food up out of the mouth and cause the chick to aspirate. It’s pretty hard to squish the chick with the self adhesive tape, but I did notice that the bandage would stick to their feathers a bit :( I just used warm water and a q-tip to nicely pull off any spots that their feathers were stuck to, but with a cockatiel I’d probably use a piece of cloth or something under it. You’ll need to make a new bra every day since the chick should be growing fast.

The biggest mistake I made when I was dealing with my malnourished chick was feeding too slow. It caused air in the crop which caused malnourishment as well as an overstretched crop, yeast, etc etc. You do really have to put the food in fast, watch how birds feed their young- they only push food in once or twice in total! If you can’t do it with the syringe you have, you should try spoon feeding. When I started spoon feeding (I had waited until the chicks eyes were open but I have seen people do it before) my budgie didn’t get air in his crop anymore.

And now since the crop has flushed properly, feed the formula at the proper thickness for the age. I think by now the formula should be fairly thick, that’ll help with malnutrition. And feed as much as possible every feeding, don’t let the crop get empty until the overnight break. When Phoenix (the budgie I handraised) was really young in this stage I was feeding him every half hour to an hour, with only a 3 hour break in the middle of the night until his crop emptied. It was only like that for about a week, but it saved him from malnutrition.
 

pavel

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I thought everyone could post here, maybe I am missing something. So looking at the pictures of the chick , you can't tell if it needs a crop bra or not?
@pavel maybe you can show us more pictures? Any updates? Maybe you can message Britnicorn for crop bra advice?
No news so far. My parents sent a very short video with bad lighting that doesn't really show anything. It seems to be eating and (at least mostly) emptying the crop. However they said its crop still balloons every now and then and they have to massage the air out. :( I told them to keep the nystatin until a vet can give better advice on monday. I'm really worried it seems to be "stuck" in the "day 3 stage" of almost every day-by-day video I see, for example

My budgie when I was hand raising him his first few days of life would move about a lot like that. Sat up and wobble until falling over. It’s normal, they’re just trying to figure the world and themselves out.

If you make the bra, put it on while the crop is empty so you don’t push food up out of the mouth and cause the chick to aspirate. It’s pretty hard to squish the chick with the self adhesive tape, but I did notice that the bandage would stick to their feathers a bit :( I just used warm water and a q-tip to nicely pull off any spots that their feathers were stuck to, but with a cockatiel I’d probably use a piece of cloth or something under it. You’ll need to make a new bra every day since the chick should be growing fast.

The biggest mistake I made when I was dealing with my malnourished chick was feeding too slow. It caused air in the crop which caused malnourishment as well as an overstretched crop, yeast, etc etc. You do really have to put the food in fast, watch how birds feed their young- they only push food in once or twice in total! If you can’t do it with the syringe you have, you should try spoon feeding. When I started spoon feeding (I had waited until the chicks eyes were open but I have seen people do it before) my budgie didn’t get air in his crop anymore.

And now since the crop has flushed properly, feed the formula at the proper thickness for the age. I think by now the formula should be fairly thick, that’ll help with malnutrition. And feed as much as possible every feeding, don’t let the crop get empty until the overnight break. When Phoenix (the budgie I handraised) was really young in this stage I was feeding him every half hour to an hour, with only a 3 hour break in the middle of the night until his crop emptied. It was only like that for about a week, but it saved him from malnutrition.
Thanks for the info, will relay to my parents regarding the thicker formula, spoon and emptying the crop on the overnight break. I am somewhat reluctant about thickening the formula though, considering the stunted growth - maybe it will be too thick for it, any thoughts?
I'll toss the crop bra idea at a vet on monday.
 

Tara81

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No news so far. My parents sent a very short video with bad lighting that doesn't really show anything. It seems to be eating and (at least mostly) emptying the crop. However they said its crop still balloons every now and then and they have to massage the air out. :( I told them to keep the nystatin until a vet can give better advice on monday. I'm really worried it seems to be "stuck" in the "day 3 stage" of almost every day-by-day video I see, for example


Thanks for the info, will relay to my parents regarding the thicker formula, spoon and emptying the crop on the overnight break. I am somewhat reluctant about thickening the formula though, considering the stunted growth - maybe it will be too thick for it, any thoughts?
I'll toss the crop bra idea at a vet on monday.
I am no expert, but I believe chicks that grow slow are malnourished.
 

pavel

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Yes according to one of Susanne's images it is definitely malnourished. It also does the "airplane wings" for mantaining balance which is another sign of malnourishment :( However we are scared of giving it more food than it can handle since it's getting malnourished even with constant feedings
 

Shezbug

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Your chick needs formula mixed at the rate suggested for its age to get the correct amount of calories and nutrients needed for it to survive and grow.

Feeding it an incorrect mixture is like removing a huge percentage of your required food and replacing it and filling you up with water to keep your tummy full- it wont do anything to feed you- filling up on mostly water cannot sustain you even though your gut may be full or even over filled.

The more it eats the formula mixed at the incorrect rate the more it will become malnourished and the less chance it has of surviving- you really need to mix that formula correctly for its age so it has all the fats, proteins, nutrients and calories it should have to feed its body and continue to grow- it will essentially be filled up with water and actually be starving. Your constant feedings are no good if they are not supplying the right calorie amounts.
 

pavel

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Sadly, I just got news that my little warrior passed away at only 7 days and 6 hours old. :sad11:
My parents fed him properly at 23:30 and when they woke up now at 2:50AM to see if he needed food he was gone.
I truly wished that this thread would not end like dozens of others I've found when googling about this situation, but such is life. The little fella had all cards stacked against him.

Heartfelt thanks to everyone here. Even if my buddy didn't make it just being able to talk with like-minded people lifted my spirits and gave me hope this week.
Hopefully this thread can be of help if someone stumbles here in the same situation while searching for help.
 

Shezbug

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I am truely sorry for your loss.
 

Tara81

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I am so sorry for your loss. :sorrow::sadhug2:
 

Britnicorn

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I’m sorry for your loss :sadhug2: you did everything you could for the little one
 

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I am sorry for your loss.
 

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I’m so sorry for your loss :sadhug2:
 
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