Cautions on Probiotics for Parrots

[Lady Jane]

About Probiotics: I have been extensively researching them when used for avian purposes.

Be aware liquid probiotics contain glucose as a diluent.

Be careful when you are giving your bird daily doses of probiotics because this will not give the naturally occurring bugs a chance to form.

Always check the expiration date on the product you are purchasing.

If you are feeding your bird yogurt be aware some yogurts have less good bacteria than others. Many of the yogurts are pasteurized which means the process kills the bacteria. Look for yogurt with live culture.

If you think your are purchasing avian specific probiotics think again because the natural flora for a particular species are different. Example an African Grey has different GI flora than a Conure.

One of the best choice for a probiotic is from the refrigerator section of a health food store (human grade)

Many products that are sold for pets and high price and low quality. That includes probiotics

If you are feeding a product that says "avian specific probiotics" know that it can be contaminated with psittascene diseases. Best to go for the human grade probiotic - with advice on dosage from your vet.

References: Holistic Bird.org and book Holistic Care for Birds.
Signatures by Lady Jane

 

[Bokkapooh]

My vet in Seattle, recommends benebac proviotics. Its in a gel form thats eaten.

 

[Mizzely]

So if the gut flora for birds differs from species to species, how does giving human probiotics doing them any favors either? In fact, the article mentions specifically that it might not actually encourage growth in the GI tract but is beneficial in other ways.

Pet quality does not always equal low quality. Look at Harrisons for example. I bet the ingredients in Harrisons is better in many ways then the stuff in kids' breakfast cereals.

The only time I use probiotics is during and after a course of antibiotics. Which the author supports.

I read the whole article and found the summary here to be misleading. HolisticBird and HolisticBirds

 

[Lady Jane]

Yes, I agree. The use of probiotics for parrots has many faces and differing opinions. As a last effort I have made an appointment for a second opinion with a board certified avian holistic vet for Sept. 15th. Could not make it sooner for financial reasons. I will seek advice at that time for the use of probiotics when feeding ACV solution to birds.

 

[Karen]

After receiving excellent reviews, I just started using; Avi-culture, The Finest, Live, Avian-Specific Probiotic

EDITED TO ADD: I like the Holistic Bird site and have read their pages but aren't they very dated?

 

[sunnysmom]

After receiving excellent reviews, I just started using; Avi-culture, The Finest, Live, Avian-Specific Probiotic

EDITED TO ADD: I like the Holistic Bird site and have read their pages but aren't they very dated?

That's the type of probiotics I get from my vet.

 

[Mizzely]

Aviculture is what I use also.

 

[Lady Jane]

I am sure aviculture is a good choice. I will wait for the consulting doc to guide me. I am fighting this yeast infection with my heart, brain and now pocketbook. Living on SS alone does not allow too many expenses.

 

[Milo]

How many sources have you consulted in your research? Also, when were the sources published? The statements you make are pretty broad and don't have references attached to them? I would be curious to read the research and sources you have uncovered in this issue.

 

[Lady Jane]

References were clearly stated. Opinions do not need dates. My sources for learning about AGY and it's treatment are on-going. Do you wish to engage in a debate? That is not my intention.

 

[Mizzely]

She's asking dates because so much changes so quickly in the realm of science and research. And wondering if more than one resource (holistic birds) was used, as using only one resource does not make a compelling or complete argument.

 

[Macawnutz]

http://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Megabacteriosis-Avian-Gastric-Yeast.pdf

The date on the article is 2002 but I read through it and he has updated it to be current. From what I know of AGY this article covers what is known. Treatment for it is
Amphotericin B. Ampho B is quite hard on their systems, if I were treating AGY again I would ask if any other medication was proving useful and I would use aviculture probiotic.

 

[Lady Jane]

Amphotericin B appears to still be the gold standard for ACY infections, according to my reading so many articles on the web last night. I have a hard time understanding how such a thick medication can be given in such a tiny beak and have it go in correctly.
Chipper fights me so much when held. Amphotericin B can be also administered via nebulizer or IV. I will check with the consulting vet on the 15th and see if nebs. can be used at home or a bird. They can for a human. There are also toxicity issues for the bird.
Guess it is better to have a large bird for giving Amphotericin B. Appreciate you input Sarah. Most of the articles I have read say the disease is ultimately fatal so I must wrap my head around that and come to grips that the treatment can be worse than the disease. I know there are birds here that have been successfully treated for AGY and that is encouraging.

 

[Macawnutz]

Amphotericin B appears to still be the gold standard for ACY infections, according to my reading so many articles on the web last night. I have a hard time understanding how such a thick medication can be given in such a tiny beak and have it go in correctly.
Chipper fights me so much when held. Amphotericin B can be also administered via nebulizer or IV. I will check with the consulting vet on the 15th and see if nebs. can be used at home or a bird. They can for a human. There are also toxicity issues for the bird.
Guess it is better to have a large bird for giving Amphotericin B. Appreciate you input Sarah. Most of the articles I have read say the disease is ultimately fatal so I must wrap my head around that and come to grips that the treatment can be worse than the disease. I know there are birds here that have been successfully treated for AGY and that is encouraging.

You send your meds to a compounding pharmacy to get a dose that works. I do not believe a nebulizer is recommended for treatment of AGY. Don't read too much online, much of it is so outdated. We have a few on this forum that are proof you can beat it.

Korbel was one.

 

[Milo]

Nebulization is actually really easy for owners to do at home as long as the bird can tolerate the medication. I can show you a picture of the setup I used for Milo and Wyatt, I know that Saroj also used nebulization for one of her guys when she was dealing with asper.

@webchirp can put you in touch with a gal named Marie who runs Feathered Friends of Michigan, she has treated a few cases of AGY successfully

I wasn't trying to engage in a debate. Posting broad statements like that on a forum such as this can be misleading to people trying to do research to figure out care for their birds (as you are doing). Providing your sources for the information would give them better tools to make an informed decision.

 

[Hankmacaw]

There are a few new fungicides that have been released for use in the last few years. I'm using one of them right now on Jasper, whose Aspergillosis came back. The one I'm using is Voriconazole and it is much less toxic to the liver and kidneys than Ampho-B or even Irtraconizole. The Voriconazole is doing the job for Jasper and at the same time I'm giving her Milk Thistle and pro-biotics for liver and gastric support. You may want to look into Slippery Elm or Metaclopramide to reduce or eliminate regurgitation.

It is important with any fungal infection to eliminate simple starches and sugar in the diet as much as possible, as both encourage fungal growth.

Best of luck with your baby, Dianne.

 

[Lady Jane]

Thanks you both for your support Mary. This information is valuable. I am sorry the aperg. came back. Chipper has stopped vomiting since I started the ACV. I am wondering if testing is done at the consulting doc appt. on the 15 may be altered due to the ACV. Guess these fungi live in our birds for a long time. By the way, how are you giving this med to Jasper?

Interesting web page: Fungal Disease in Avian Patients « LafeberVet.com

 

[Bailey]

References were clearly stated. Opinions do not need dates. My sources for learning about AGY and it's treatment are on-going. Do you wish to engage in a debate? That is not my intention.

I was battling AGY throughout the end of last year and into the beginning of this year. We beat it. But, it seems AGY shows itself when there is something else going on in the body too. Allie was found to have cancer soon after we won the battle against AGY. We lost her to the cancer after she had well recovered from the AGY.

You can look at my past threads about Allie to see our treatment plan. I'm sure it would help.

 

[Lady Jane]

OK I will Bailey. Yeast will often strike a bird who's immune system is compromised. I am so sorry you lost your bird. Gosh, now I am concerned Chipper may have some hidden disease process going on.

 

[Red Jasper]

I use Netkon Bio-Vitamins srpinkled very lightly on fresh mash 2 - 3 times per week.