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Cardio, Respiratory and Circulatory Diseases

Mitzi

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All the birds seem fine, just wanted to move the cockatiel in case. I wanted to move her into the extra spare bedroom but husband was afraid since she is 16 and never been alone in a room she may get scared. We'll play it by ear and if either of us or the dog starts having problems she will just have to be a room by herself and maybe can put the caique or greencheek conures in thee with her.
 

melissasparrots

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I totally do not have time to read this whole thread today. However, I'd be really interested if any good studies have been done involving a control group for comparison. I have no doubt that some species are prone to irritation from cockatoo and grey dust. A good number of people are specifically allergic to them so it does make sense that some macaws will be too. However, I'd also strongly suspect that some birds are also going to be sensitive to mold growth within the home, pollen and any number of other things. I have a leaky roof. Spent a few thousand trying to fix and still nobody can tell me where it leaks. I see no visible mold and that spot is only occasionally damp, but it does cause me some concern. My one amazon has some issues with a snotty nose sometimes. No infection present so it has to be some airborne irritant. But is it cockatoo dust? Could be. Could also be pollen and other things in the A/C vents.

I'd be interested in knowing how often similar symptoms are seen in cockatoo/grey/'tiel free homes. Again, I'm not trying to say its not a problem or people should ignore the risk. Just that I would think sometimes you can do everything right and still have the same problem due to other environmental problems. Or, someone can keep their macaw in a home with a dusty bird and their macaw has a problem and its not the dusty bird causing the problem. I think more studies need to be done on this because even though there is clear reason to be concerned, there are also plenty of conures and macaws living with cockatoos for decades and no problem. So what is the difference between those and is the connection really strong enough for us to say cockatoos and macaws can't be together period... No doubt it increases the risk of problems. But to what extent? Some would say any risk is too much. Others might be prone to playing the odds or housing them in different rooms to reduce the risk instead of just saying, no cockatoos and macaws in the same house ever. I'm having a very busy school year and no time to research this much on my own. Don't want to sound argumentative or insensitive. Just busy.
 

Sadieladie1994

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I totally do not have time to read this whole thread today. However, I'd be really interested if any good studies have been done involving a control group for comparison. I have no doubt that some species are prone to irritation from cockatoo and grey dust. A good number of people are specifically allergic to them so it does make sense that some macaws will be too. However, I'd also strongly suspect that some birds are also going to be sensitive to mold growth within the home, pollen and any number of other things. I have a leaky roof. Spent a few thousand trying to fix and still nobody can tell me where it leaks. I see no visible mold and that spot is only occasionally damp, but it does cause me some concern. My one amazon has some issues with a snotty nose sometimes. No infection present so it has to be some airborne irritant. But is it cockatoo dust? Could be. Could also be pollen and other things in the A/C vents.

I'd be interested in knowing how often similar symptoms are seen in cockatoo/grey/'tiel free homes. Again, I'm not trying to say its not a problem or people should ignore the risk. Just that I would think sometimes you can do everything right and still have the same problem due to other environmental problems. Or, someone can keep their macaw in a home with a dusty bird and their macaw has a problem and its not the dusty bird causing the problem. I think more studies need to be done on this because even though there is clear reason to be concerned, there are also plenty of conures and macaws living with cockatoos for decades and no problem. So what is the difference between those and is the connection really strong enough for us to say cockatoos and macaws can't be together period... No doubt it increases the risk of problems. But to what extent? Some would say any risk is too much. Others might be prone to playing the odds or housing them in different rooms to reduce the risk instead of just saying, no cockatoos and macaws in the same house ever. I'm having a very busy school year and no time to research this much on my own. Don't want to sound argumentative or insensitive. Just busy.


Bird dust is just one small fraction of the cause in people.

Hypersensitivity Pneumonitis - American Lung Association

Mold is a big offender. Here in houston the rate of respiratory problems increased after the hurricane. Although ones home was ok other homes were not and those mold spores got into the atmosphere. Being outside in the moldy air lasted quite some time with direct cause from damaged areas caused by the hurricanes.

One does not always know what a person or animal has a sensitivity too and with this disease it is hard to tell in some.
 

Sadieladie1994

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Here is a bit more information listing some incidence at the end. Wikapedia source.

Types[edit]
Hypersensitivity pneumonitis may also be called many different names, based on the provoking antigen. These include:

Type[13]Specific antigenExposure
Bird fancier's lung
Also called bird breeder's lung, pigeon breeder's lung, and poultry worker's lungAvian proteinsFeathers and bird droppings [14]
BagassosisThermophilic actinomycetes[14]Moldy bagasse (pressed sugarcane)
Cephalosporium HPCephalosporiumContaminated basements (from sewage)
Cheese-washer's lungPenicillum casei[14] or P. roquefortiCheese casings
Chemical worker’s lung - Isocyanate HPToluene diisocyanate (TDI), Hexamethylene diisocyanate (HDI), or Methylene bisphenyl isocyanate (MDI)Paints, resins, and polyurethane foams
Chemical worker's lung[14] - Trimellitic anhydride (TMA) HPTrimellitic anhydride[14]Plastics, resins, and paints
Coffee worker's lungCoffee bean proteinCoffee bean dust
Compost lungAspergillusCompost
Detergent worker's diseaseBacillus subtilis enzymesDetergent
Familial HP
Also called Domestic HPBacillus subtilis, puffball sporesContaminated walls
Farmer's lungThe molds
Moldy hay
Hot tub lungMycobacterium avium complexMist from hot tubs
Humidifier lungThe bacteria
  • Thermoactinomyces candidus
  • Bacillus subtilis
  • Bacillus cereus, and Klebsiella oxytoca;
  • Thermophilic actinomycetes[14]
the fungi

and the amoebae

  • Naegleria gruberi,
  • Acanthamoeba polyhaga, and
  • Acanthamoeba castellani.
Mist generated by a machine from standing water
Japanese summer house HPAlso called Japanese summer-type HPTrichosporon cutaneumDamp wood and mats
Laboratory worker's lungMale rat urine proteinLaboratory rats
LycoperdonosisPuffball sporesSpore dust from mature puffballs[15]
Malt worker's lungAspergillus clavatus[14]Moldy barley
Maple bark diseaseCryptostroma corticale[14]Moldy maple bark
Metalworking fluids HPNontuberculous mycobacteriaMist from metalworking fluids
Miller's lungSitophilus granarius (wheat weevil)[14]Dust-contaminated grain[14]
Mollusc shell HPAquatic animal proteinsMollusc shell dust
Mushroom worker's lungThermophilic actinomycetesMushroom compost
Peat moss worker's lungCaused by Monocillium sp. and Penicillium citreonigrumPeat moss
Pituitary snuff taker's lungPituitary snuffMedication (Diabetes insipidus)
Sauna worker's lungAureobasidium, Graphium sppContaminated sauna water
SequoiosisAureobasidium, Graphium sppRedwood bark, sawdust
Streptomyces HPStreptomyces albusContaminated fertilizer
SuberosisPenicillium glabrum (formerly known asPenicillium frequentans)Moldy cork dust
Tap water HPUnknownContaminated tap water
Thatched roof diseaseSaccharomonospora viridisDried grass
Tobacco worker's lungAspergillus sppMoldy tobacco
Trombone Player's lung (Brass Player's Lung)Mycobacterium chelonaeVarious Microbateria inside instruments[16][17]
Wine-grower's lungBotrytis cinerea moldMoldy grapes
Woodworker's lungAlternaria, Penicillium sppWood pulp, dust
Of these types, Farmer's Lung and Bird-Breeder's Lung are the most common. "Studies document 8-540 cases per 100,000 persons per year for farmers and 6000-21,000 cases per 100,000 persons per year for pigeon breeders. High attack rates are documented in sporadic outbreaks. Prevalence varies by region, climate, and farming practices. HP affects 0.4-7% of the farming population. Reported prevalence among bird fanciers is estimated to be 20-20,000 cases per 100,000 persons at risk." [3]

Treatment[edit]
The best treatment is to avoid the provoking allergen, as chronic exposure can cause permanent damage.Corticosteroids such as prednisolone may help to control symptoms but may produce side-effects.[18]
 

Hankmacaw

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There is no doubt that dusty bird dust is just one of the causes of respiratory issues in birds. Molds are a common cause of respiratory issues - in my case, both of my birds were afflicted with Aspergillosis and we fought it for years and I'm fighting it again in Jasper. Here in AZ we have a disease called Valley Fever Valley fever Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic . I asked my vet about birds and Valley Fever and he said that birds don't seem to be susceptible to it. Dogs and numerous other animal are victims of Valley Fever Valley Fever Center - Valley Fever in Dogs.

Here is an article by Dr. Pesek about lung diseases in parrots; Winged Wisdom Pet Bird Magazine - Avian Respiratory Disorders Part II - Pet Birds
 

Sadieladie1994

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Valley Fever can be hard to treat... Skin testing is done for VF due to a higher incidence in some areas with Az being one of them. Valley of the Sun is misleading as mold spores get in the dry soil and when the wind kicks up so does the spread of the spores.
 

Hankmacaw

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Respiratory diseases CAN cause cardiac and circulatory disease. One of my birds had cardiac disease as a result of respiratory disease and the other as a result of diet for the first six years of her life. Atherosclerosis is another serious disease that generally, but not always develops during the later years of their life.

CLINICAL EXAMINATION
The clinical diagnosis of cardiovascular disease in living birds can be difficult. There is no palpable pulse in birds. In addition, auscultation, an important standard technique in mammals, is difficult to interpret in birds. Birds suffering from cardiac disease are often presented to the veterinarian with a history of weakness and lethargy. In some cases, cardiovascular failure can be suspected on the basis of bluish discoloration of the periorbital skin (especially in African grey parrots) and abdominal distension. Nonspecific symptoms like dyspnea and exercise intolerance may also lead to a tentative diagnosis of a cardiac problem and provide an indication for further diagnostic procedures.
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/12_cardiology.pdf

The above is a very complete and somewhat technical article about heart disease in parrots.
 

Holiday

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I think more studies need to be done on this because even though there is clear reason to be concerned, there are also plenty of conures and macaws living with cockatoos for decades and no problem. So what is the difference between those and is the connection really strong enough for us to say cockatoos and macaws can't be together period... No doubt it increases the risk of problems. But to what extent? Some would say any risk is too much. Others might be prone to playing the odds or housing them in different rooms to reduce the risk instead of just saying, no cockatoos and macaws in the same house ever. I'm having a very busy school year and no time to research this much on my own. Don't want to sound argumentative or insensitive. Just busy.
The extent of damage and the duration of tolerance will vary from bird to bird. But, the main take-away is that it is bad for them, that it can make them very ill, that it could even kill them. Yes, there are many macaws who do okay with greys or even 'toos, but then there are also many who become slowly sickened and die and the owners don't know why. And, there is quite a bit of research on the topic. It is a well-known issue and one that we have warned people about on the board for years:

Respiratory Hypersensitivity is most commonly reported in Blue & Gold macaws, but not all macaws are allergic. The airborne particulates of heavy powder down birds such as Grey parrots, budgerigars and cockatiels may also contribute to symptoms and disease. We know that acute death can occur with some birds...
Macaw Respiratory Hypersensitivity - The Gabriel Foundation
Macaw Asthma in Birds | petMD

http://bluepearlvet.com/files/2012/01/Macaw-asthma.pdf

I just never realized how extreme and immediate the risk could be for some macaws. Some birds are, as my vet put it "just more sensitive." How many people want to find out the hard way that they have one of those?
 
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alcmene

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Agree completely. It's my personal opinion that Blue and Golds and Suns are the most sensitive is hogwash. I think that there are more recorded cases of them having hypersensitivity not because of an actual increased sensitivity in those species, but because B&Gs and Suns are the most commonly kept species of macaws and conures. It's a larger sample size, not more delicate lungs, that leads to more recorded cases of hypersensitivity in those species, IMO.
 

Sadieladie1994

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On B&G's it is also thought they are more susceptible because the nares are so exposed where other birds have more feather covering close by.

But sensitivity is a real thing. Asthma attacks are very real and very scarey.
 

alcmene

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I've read that about the exposed nares of B&Gs, which makes sense. Some macaw species do have more protected nares. But look at blue throats and severes, for example. Their nares are just as exposed as B&Gs. Logic would dictate that they would be just as vulnerable. But (and I'm guessing here) i bet there are fewer blue throats and severes combined then there are B&Gs in captivity.

Among conures, from what I've read, it's the Aratinga species who are most susceptible to dust, which makes sense since they are the conures that are closely related to macaws.

There's no way anybody could look at a sun, a jenday, and a gold capped and say health differences were related to their physical structure. Except for feather color, the birds are identical. It makes no sense that a sun would be more sensitive then the other species. There are just a lot more suns around to test for problems then there are gold capped
 
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Bokkapooh

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I wonder what makes some macaws and conures sensitive to dust?

It cant be because theyre from south america.

Some macaws are from arid environments, subtropical and tropical. Same as dusty parrots.
 

Saemma

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I've read that about the exposed nares of B&Gs, which makes sense. Some macaw species do have more protected nares. But look at blue throats and severes, for example. Their nares are just as exposed as B&Gs. Logic would dictate that they would be just as vulnerable. But (and I'm guessing here) i bet there are fewer blue throats and severes combined then there are B&Gs in captivity.

Among conures, from what I've read, it's the Aratinga species who are most susceptible to dust, which makes sense since they are the conures that are closely related to macaws.

There's no way anybody could look at a sun, a jenday, and a gold capped and say health differences were related to their physical structure. Except for feather color, the birds are identical. It makes no sense that a sun would be more sensitive then the other species. There are just a lot more suns around to test for problems then there are gold capped

Severe macaws do not have nares that are exposed like blue and gold macaws. :)
 

jeansie1988

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Hi, would a blue headed pionus be okay to be in the same room as a goffin?
 

Greycloud

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I would say no. Pionus are susceptible to respiratory issues so care should be taken When placing them with other birds in their environment.
 
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