Cardio, Respiratory and Circulatory Diseases

[Bartleby]

Well, it makes sense to me. Mucous is produced in response to an irritant/allergen. Maalik is dusty, so it makes sense to me that it could have been the reason. I'm not in a state of panic; just applying what I'm now learning here to my fids' environment, and also pondering that it could have been a contributory cause for my baby's early demise.

Please ask these questions of your AV. Since Bogart was just a baby I'm assuming he had only been with you a short while. These respiratory issues are not something that happens over the course of a few months or weeks. These are long standing, progressive disorders that occur over years as far as I am aware. While birds may not show signs/symptoms or be in severe distress until the very end they have actually been developing the problem over the course of years.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Birds are susceptible to other causes for respiratory problems including bacteria causing pneumonia or bronchitis. The there are other allergens that affect respiratory tracts. Mine are mold (severe allergy). I could tell when a cleaning crew did not mix the chemicals in the right dilution as I would have a bronchial asthmatic attack. It resolved when I left the area. So air quality is important to me as it is to my birds. To follow good practices one must know what they are, how to implement them and the signs to watch for if one should start having a problem. One doesn't want to run to the dr each time we see anything in our birds (my bird coughing to the point my vet told me the bird got me...they don't cough). So if one understand some of the symptoms or bring to this board changes you see one may be encouraged to see a vet rather than going running for every little thing. When starting out in birds one does not always know the difference from what is not a problem or what really is or could be.

 

[Ribbit21]

When I first looked into getting a CAG I asked my vet about housing a CAG and Quakers in the same room. I was always told, by a few different vets, that PHD is not commonly seen in Quakers. I was told that's because they aren't strictly rainforest birds and live in temperate and subtropical areas. In addition to being ground feeders and living in larger communal and probably very dusty nests.

I would love to have an Illiger's or RFM, but until I have the room for completely separate areas I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Bokkapooh]

"Maybe" panic was a strong word for how I feel, maybe a sense of urgency is better for my situation. BUt perhaps thats because I lack patience. Or much when it comes to these things.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes, if you have a susceptible bird for it's entire life you will probably have a length of time before they develop a respiratory problem from a dusty bird, but if you have not had a bird for it's entire life, it may already be compromised when you get it. There are three things I would point out about PHD; 1. A bird does not come with notification tattooed on it's forehead that it has a extra sensitive respiratory system. 2. Once the process of PHD has started, it is irreversible. 3. I don't know why anyone would take the risk, knowing that there is a risk, even if it is not a one to one relationship. We have no way of knowing which bird is the ONE.

We cannot control how others react to information on this forum - and I personally don't think there has been panic. What there has been is people considering their own situation and some becoming aware of the issue for the first time - neither of those results is bad IMO.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Well I think the tone about whether people with dusty birds shouldnt have non-dusty birds, may throw people off? I wont give up Mera, and I will do what I can, as I have always have, to make sure she is healthy to the best of my abilities. I have always been aware of the sensitivity of macaws, more so now as its a reality check again, but I think it is possible for a macaw or other south american species, to live in a home with dusty birds. Just as long as the home isnt dusty, bird is healthy, doing the best we can, etc.

We cant stop taking risks in life without taking risks.

I hope this doesnt offend anyone.

 

[wonderb]

When I first looked into getting a CAG I asked my vet about housing a CAG and Quakers in the same room. I was always told, by a few different vets, that PHD is not commonly seen in Quakers. I was told that's because they aren't strictly rainforest birds and live in temperate and subtropical areas. In addition to being ground feeders and living in larger communal and probably very dusty nests.

Quakers also have fairly dense feathers over their nares which probably provides some level of protection.

 

[Greycloud]

I think it is important to point out that we in the avian community learn new things everyday. I have owned birds for over 30 years. This has opened my eyes that no matter your experience, we don't always know everything. Sometimes it takes a tragedy to point us in the right direction. We all want our birds healthy and happy. We want it for each other too. I shared some links about PHD in a few of my parrot groups on Face Book. So many people had no idea at all about this condition and it's dangers.

 

[Bokkapooh]

I honestly had no idea all of the south American species were sensitive. So many people keep cockatoos and Amazon's. The two tend to be friendly towards eachother, too. Similar attitudes I guess. But who'd have known. I knew macaws can be sensitive. Learned conures could too. But had no idea that amazons were sensitive to dusty bird dust.

 

[Bokkapooh]

When I got my first macaw, Gra, she was diagnosed with an enlarged heart. But at that time my avian vet at the time, Dr Unapproved vendor (who no longer is at the clinic I go to sadly) said that Gra had a congenital bird defect that made her heart enlarged.

I never considered that my cockatoos dust could have possibly done it.

She died to do heart failure. But never showed a sign of difficult breathing. She was my first and only bird I free flew outside. I honestly thought she was healthy until her vet check and xrays.

Which has me wondering, how does one know if an enlarged heart is from environmental factors such as dust or being an inbred bird (what Dr Unapproved vendor said was a likely chance for Gra)?

 

[Holiday]

I see people on this thread commenting on cleanliness, air purifiers, and the like, and I suppose that's fine. But, I would like to be very, very clear here. I clean religiously, change the cage tray papers every single night and vacuum every single evening. I ran an Austin and a Holmes air purifier, spritzed the grey regularly, and I kept windows open in the summer time. I had ONE African Grey, on the small side, not even caged all that close to my RFM. And, my macaw died from exposure to her dust in three years.

People can say whatever they like, make any sort of rationalizations that they like, but IMO, facing hard facts doesn't constitute a panic.

Clearly, not every bird will react to the dust the way my Zoe did, but, make no mistake, if your bird does, you will not know until it is too late.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Which has me wondering, how does one know if an enlarged heart is from environmental factors such as dust or being an inbred bird (what Dr Unapproved vendor said was a likely chance for Gra)?

That's what avian vets are for...help figure it out. Again, that is why we refer people to an avian vet. We many times know when things don't sound right and we are not vets. Always good to do the full evaluation by a vet.

 

[Bartleby]

When I got my first macaw, Gra, she was diagnosed with an enlarged heart. But at that time my avian vet at the time, Dr Unapproved vendor (who no longer is at the clinic I go to sadly) said that Gra had a congenital bird defect that made her heart enlarged.

I never considered that my cockatoos dust could have possibly done it.

She died to do heart failure. But never showed a sign of difficult breathing. She was my first and only bird I free flew outside. I honestly thought she was healthy until her vet check and xrays.

Which has me wondering, how does one know if an enlarged heart is from environmental factors such as dust or being an inbred bird (what Dr Unapproved vendor said was a likely chance for Gra)?

PHD requires a lung biopsy for definitive diagnosis. An enlarged heart is not a symptom of PHD per se. The enlarged heart comes from the heart failure that the PHD causes.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Which has me wondering, how does one know if an enlarged heart is from environmental factors such as dust or being an inbred bird (what Dr Unapproved vendor said was a likely chance for Gra)?

That's what avian vets are for...help figure it out. Again, that is why we refer people to an avian vet. We many times know when things don't sound right and we are not vets. Always good to do the full evaluation by a vet.

But how can an avian vet find out? cbc? I read that in this thread.

Its not like you can take a biopsy of a birds lung while its alive. Or can you?

 

[Greycloud]

Yes, lung biopsies can be done on a live bird. And Holiday, I have no doubt you kept your place and your cages clean daily. It almost makes you wonder if we should even keep different species in the same home. I would like to think that now that I made my changes here that my birds will be protects. It is scary to say the least.

 

[itzmered]

@Holiday I dont recall the answer, was Zoe a rehome? If so do you know what her history was? I wonder if she was kept with other dusty birds in the past

 

[Holiday]

@Holiday I dont recall the answer, was Zoe a rehome? If so do you know what her history was? I wonder if she was kept with other dusty birds in the past

Zoe was a rehome, but I got her at a very young age, one and a half years, and she got a clean bill of health before she came here. She had no symptoms whatsoever until these past few weeks, only really noticeable this past week. It's important that people understand she went downhill very, very fast.

I'm not going to blame her previous owner or anyone except myself. My vet was crystal clear about the necropsy results and the cause of her death, and I heard what she said with my whole mind, heart, and soul.

 

[Greycloud]

Holiday, I think people are just trying to make you feel as if it was not something you did. I get that you are trying to spell it out for us. That is why I did my rearranging today! You are being adamant that we cannot make excuses and must me changes! I am listening. I am acting. We have to hope that others will do the same.

 

[Holiday]

Holiday, I think people are just trying to make you feel as if it was not something you did. I get that you are trying to spell it out for us. That is why I did my rearranging today! You are being adamant that we cannot make excuses and must me changes! I am listening. I am acting. We have to hope that others will do the same.

I may sound harsh, but I don't mean to. And, I don't want people to think I'm saying that all cases will end up like mine. They won't. But, if I only knew then what I know now...

And, it was something I did. Clearly. So, the only thing that will make me feel better about it is if I can turn that horrible mistake to some good end.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Holiday - "So, the only thing that will make me feel better about it is if I can turn that horrible mistake to some good end."

The good is happening. People are talking and some are making changes in their husbandry.