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Pictures Can anyone identify this parrot???

Fama

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Hello everybody! I work at the Virignia Museum of Fine Arts in Richmond VA, and we own this Italian portrait of an unidentified little (rich) girl from the 1500s. But what in the world is that creature she is holding? It's got to be some kind of parrot, right? Thanks for all your help! -- Fatima Mahdi, Data Specialist


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faislaq

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faislaq

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It's possible the artist only briefly saw the bird and went mostly from memory. I doubt any bird would pose adequately for a painting. :chin: My current best guess is some kind of poicephalus? Gray head, dark beak, red eyes. Several have red or orange in their feathers that could have been "moved" by the artist. :artist1:
 

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Who is the artist? When I look at the parrot just reminds me of a Poi. I don't think the artist got the colors right. It's an incorrectly painted Poicephalus rufiventris. :D
 

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Kinda scary lookin' bird! But I'd also have to go with a poi/Senegal.
 

AkasyaEllric

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My first thought also was some type of poi. Am I crazy or is the pattern semi cape, but obviously not the right colors. For all we know it could of been some type of poicephalus hybrid.
 

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Definitely reminds me of a poicephalus.

What area of the world would they likely have gotten it at that time period? That might help narrow it down.
 

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Do you have any idea where it was painted? It might help to know what trade routes were present to help work out if its an Old World or New World parrot.

It's worth noting that the artist may have been going from a verbal description along the lines of "well, it's got a grey beak and head, and it's mostly green..." so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on its rather pigeon-like body shape or that the colours may be off. I do wonder about the patch of yellow/orange on the back of the head - it's not quite the right place, but that looks Cape-ish to me, maybe Meyers.
 

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I'm thinking Imperial Amazon :) Crazy red eye, pronounced nares, weird coloration, and they just overdid the red wings

Then maybe the parrot is wearing a cap?? it doesn't look like feathers

b183f533373570ee2f31917b76c651c6.jpg
 

faislaq

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Do you have any idea where it was painted? It might help to know what trade routes were present to help work out if its an Old World or New World parrot.

It's worth noting that the artist may have been going from a verbal description along the lines of "well, it's got a grey beak and head, and it's mostly green..." so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on its rather pigeon-like body shape or that the colours may be off. I do wonder about the patch of yellow/orange on the back of the head - it's not quite the right place, but that looks Cape-ish to me, maybe Meyers.
She said it's an Italian portrait.

I'm thinking Imperial Amazon :) Crazy red eye, pronounced nares, weird coloration, and they just overdid the red wings

Then maybe the parrot is wearing a cap?? it doesn't look like feathers

View attachment 274913
I like your guess; I couldn't think of any with those nares.
 

tka

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Look at this hypothetical illustration of the extinct Guadeloupe Amazon: Guadeloupe amazon - Wikipedia

It's extinct but the description seems to be a good fit:

"The Parrots of these islands are distinguishable from those of the mainland of Guinea (? Guiana) by their different plumage; those of Guadeloupe are a little smaller than the Macaws. The head, neck, and underparts are slaty, with a few green and black feathers; the back is wholly green, the wings green, yellow, and red"

(from Labat in 1742, cited in Guadeloupe amazon - Wikipedia

The Martinique Amazon (Martinique amazon - Wikipedia is also extinct but a description indicates that it had the patch of red on its head. Both are presumed to be related to the Imperial Amazon.
 

faislaq

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Sold! I like the martinique, too. Especially if they're "a little smaller than the Macaws". That bird is big, even if it's only a 5-year-old holding it.

Ans if it's a hypothetical illustration, it could have hypothetically had some red fights?
 

tka

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I'm inclined to the Martinique too, but I wouldn't rule out the Guadeloupe. The two images on wikipedia are speculative illustrations from the early twentieth century created after the birds were extinct, which is why the written descriptions are (in my opinion) more useful.

They're also both speculative species in that we don't have physical evidence for their existence, only descriptions. I'd be hesitant about labelling the bird as one of them as a result, but I suspect it's a (sub)species related to the Imperial. Perhaps there's someone researching extinct parrots who'd be able to give a more definitive ID.
 

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Right, but the Guadeloupe makes no mention of the red cap, and mentions yellow which the painting doesn't highlight. So I would personally rule it out. I do agree its likely an extinct parrot, which is sort of a cool discovery.
 

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Could be a Martinique Amazon especially because of the red cap but still looks Poi to me. Europeans were involved with Africa in the 1500s and possibly earlier although I have no idea which areas. I could see a rich child having an African bird brought back to her from Africa.
 

tka

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Could be a Martinique Amazon especially because of the red cap but still looks Poi to me. Europeans were involved with Africa in the 1500s and possibly earlier although I have no idea which areas. I could see a rich child having an African bird brought back to her from Africa.
Europe was laying claim to land in both sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas at the time. I'd need to check with my early modern historian friends, but I think both continents occupied a similar position in the European imagination of being far away, exotic, dangerous and full of fabulous wealth.

I'm willing to bet that the parrot's presence in this portrait is highly symbolic; I don't think it's just a portrait of a wealthy child and her pet. The parrot could be there to suggest exoticness and the excitement of discovery, represent the lands being colonised by Europeans, perhaps indicate the child's family's wealth and trading connections. Again, this would apply for both American and African parrots.

The romantic in me would really like it to be one of the extinct Amazons!
 
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faislaq

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That would be so neat! A rare glimpse. :pinksmile: I appreciate your research, too. I had wondered about the possibility of it being an extinct species, but wasn't sure where to start figuring out trade routes.
 
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