Caesar Milan/Marlene Mc'Cohen

[Lilbirdapp]

Anyone else see the new video with Marlene Mc'Cohen and Caesar Milan? They were discussing introducing birds and dogs to eachother.

I went had to rewind at least 5 times to figure out what on Earth Caesar was talking about in the beginning of the video.

I'm a fan of Marlene's videos simply because she promotes a better quality of life for birds. But this video was a bit odd... I was nervous watching Caesar's dogs around Jersey. I'll admit, my dog and birds aren't kept totally separate, but that video made me nervous.

 

[Shezbug]

Oh dear now there’s a pair I would rather see stay apart from each other.
I must say that I am not a fan of either of them and hearing this makes me very very nervous and uncomfortable to say the least!

 

[Monica]

No, just no..... do I even want to? Ugh.... watching this sounds dreadful....

 

[Zara]

I´m not subscribed but I saw this pop up on recommended videos.
I thought the whole video was weird. Most of the talking was not helpful. Marlene started to look bored half way through. The dog in the video, is exactly the problem between cats/dogs and birds - they will always be interested. Despite being ¨well trained¨, despite being told ¨no¨, despite being fine around other/existing birds.

I will say, Cesar did say one thing that was accurate:
¨you can have a bird, but if you don´t know how to gain the trust and respect, you don´t have a bird - you have the idea of having a bird.¨

 

[BreezyTiel]

@Shezbug Just out of curiosity, what is it about them that you dislike? I'm a fan of both of them and view both as educated animal trainers/keepers? I'm open to other perspectives, though.

 

[Sarahmoluccan]

I'm also not a fan of either of them especially Caesar. He's a controversial figure and I know there are alot of behavioral dog experts who totally disagree with his techniques.

I do hate it when dogs and birds co-living comes up... I'm never sure what exactly to said as my dog is constantly around my bird and past birds too which I know is deeply disturbing to some. Also I do believe strongly that there are certain predatory traits that can't be trained out of some dogs. Which is why I believe individual temperament is key. To be clear I'm not saying dogs that can't be trusted around birds are "bad" dogs, just that not all dogs are ticking time bombs waiting to go off.

My dog Bits is super solid around my birds, I got very lucky that way. Zane who was occasionally proned to falling has fallen in front Bits plenty of times, even on him a couple times too. Echo who occasionally spooks and flys off has never elicited a prey response in Bits either. Bits has been around birds since he 6 months old and is now 13. I did put in alot of training to get him used to being around my birds. I had to at the time because I live with people who I couldn't not rely on to keep them separate.

Still you can't rely on training alone which is why temperament is key. Also training isn't just about making sure your dog follows your commands, it's also getting them accept a bird flying across a room is normal and is nothing to get excited about. Not all dogs will be able to do this, which goes back to temperament.

Bits is far from being perfect in other ways, he has his flaws, but I'm super comfortable with him around birds. In the the 13 years I've had him he's never show aggression towards any of my birds. There are still some risk though, being accidentally stepped on or coming in to contact with bacteri in saliva come to mind. But I feel these risks can be well managed.

I do get why these types of posts are such a heated discussion, the stakes are incredibly high, literally life and death for the bird. We have certainly seen quite alot of tragedies and dog attacks on other pets certainly do happen. And my heart breaks for anyone who has suffered those. I got incredibly lucky with Bits because while I did somethings right I do cringe at the mistakes i made is the beginning too. Being on this forum as been a good wakeup call to the fact not all dogs can be trusted. But I can't deny what I've seen with Bits either. I often think about how I would go about it differently now if I was even wanted to get another dog. I would certainly like to get dog behavioral expert to help, but it certainly wouldn't be from someone like Ceasar Milan

 

[BreezyTiel]

@Sarahmoluccan Thanks for taking the time to reply & I'm glad that Bits and your birds can co-exist. I do agree that usually, dogs and birds don't mix, though. Is there something about Marlene McCohen specifically that you dislike?

 

[Ankou]

@BreezyTiel, I have no first-hand info on McCohen but Cesar (at least 7ish years ago last time I would watch his show at a friends' house while in college) practices unsafe, inhumane, and outdated techniques. I sincerely hope he has changed since.

But back then it was dominance theory and flooding, forcing dogs to surrender to situations and people rather than allowing them the time and patience to learn its okay and the skills they needed to cope. By asserting himself over them, like pinning them to the ground, stopping them from escaping, or holding an object of intimidation (which he does use for protection since he forces dogs into situations where they feel they need to defend themselves, but is also intimidating) until they learn to just give up. He frequently uses a type of collar/leash (a martingale slip lead) that strangles a dog when they pull/struggle hard enough, especially when held straight up... which he does when a dog struggles. The edits and time-cuts on his show also gave the audience a poor idea how long these techniques took before the dog surrenders editing out 15 minutes or more of a dog struggling and trying to escape.

Some of his less questionable techniques (that still did result in injuries,) like his training/boarding facility where dogs learn pack behavior and have access to enrichment can be helpful but often don't solve the root of the problem because the owners likely don't have 10 more dog-friends and an outdoor pool at home. The behaviors are prone to returning when the dog goes back to it's old life.

Now I don't think all his ideas are bad. I know 'his thing' was "Calm and Assertive" for a while and that's great! You should be calm and assertive with a dog... you should not allow them to be choked by a martingale collar while they struggle to escape a situation they are afraid of until they, exhausted and out of breath, give up. Really only learning "well, it's going to be an even more traumatic experience if I try to respond to what is causing my misbehavior so I guess this is my life now." It doesn't create a happy, well-adjusted animal.

 

[juliashmulia]

I don’t trust or subscribe to “celebrity pet experts” just as a general rule. Marlene is an actress and I know she loves birds blah blah blah but I don’t think she should be handing out “advice” on YouTube and certainly not slapping her name on the label of bird food.

 

[Sarahmoluccan]

@Sarahmoluccan Thanks for taking the time to reply & I'm glad that Bits and your birds can co-exist. I do agree that usually, dogs and birds don't mix, though. Is there something about Marlene McCohen specifically that you dislike?

Honestly I don't know much about her. I have seen some of her videos though and there was nothing in them that really spoke to me, I guess

 

[Hankmacaw]

Marlene should practice what she preaches - she does not provide a safe environment for her birds nor birds she happens on. She has lost one bird due to her ignorant habit of allowing them outside without a harness nor a cage. She found a poor darned Amazon and decided (with her pea brain) that he was wild, even though she could handle him better than many long time owners can. So since she in her ignorance had decided that he was wild so she released him to fare on his own. She is nothing more than a heavily made up, egocentic example of the worst of the stereotypical California girls.

 

[Hankmacaw]

PS - I don't care for dogs and haven't had one since I was an 8 yo (72 years ago), so Ceasar does not appear on my radar.

 

[aooratrix]

I wouldn't trust Marlene with pet fish, let alone parrots or training. I am a dog person, but don't subscribe to much of Caesar's philosophy. I do agree with the premise that a tired pet equals a happy owner. It applies to parrots, too. If most domestic parrots had more to do, more outlets for athleticism, behavioral issues would decrease. It's not a panacea, but it would help.

 

[rocky'smom]

Oh good god are you kidding me, those two are not fit to take of either of birds or dogs, neither of them. Marlene released a quote "supposedly feral amazon" unquote, that drank water from a glass that she held. That zon was no more a feral then most zons I have met.
Caesar Millan practices are close TOO CLOSE to abuse in my eyes. I wouldn't let him anywhere near any dog that I know. I grew up with dogs that were well mannered, taught from the time they were puppies. There was no aggression, there was NO putting them to ground hard like he does. There was gentle persuasion, corrections if needed but never anything I have ever seen in his training sessions..

 

[Monica]

I do agree with the premise that a tired pet equals a happy owner. It applies to parrots, too. If most domestic parrots had more to do, more outlets for athleticism, behavioral issues would decrease.

I agree with this.


I mean, honestly, it seems silly! When we have a dog with behavioral issues, it's recommended to train and exercise!!!

Birds? Clip them. Clip them and somehow the problem behavior will "go away"... like magic! Only, it doesn't... and people still struggle with behavior issues with clipped birds. I *KNOW* you know that, of course! Just silly/sad how we approach bird training differently than we do dog training when they can both benefit from the "same" approach! (exercise, training and enrichment)

 

[KhanKrazy]

I watched the video. It made me uncomfortable. My partners profession is dog training and she has spent time with Caesar in the past. She has neither positive or negative things to say about him really. She learned a bit, and she disagreed with a bit. That’s fair.

I’ve given Marlene a chance but I just don’t like her. Yeah she loves her birds. But she does a lot of dangerous and foolish things with them. Takes them out with no harness. Has her Macaw and Cockatoo housed in the SAME ROOM. She isn’t smart. She isn’t cute. She isn’t interesting. The way she bosses her husband(?) around and makes him do everything (he cleans all the cages, he makes her coffee, he works the most, ect) just rubs me the wrong way. I don’t think she’s qualified to be giving advice. Opinions? Sure!

 

[Shezbug]

@Shezbug Just out of curiosity, what is it about them that you dislike? I'm a fan of both of them and view both as educated animal trainers/keepers? I'm open to other perspectives, though.

The fact that they are who they are is enough for me to be honest.....they are fame seeking, shallow, people using animals to get an online or celebrity status- just does not sit right with me!
Just watch some actual accredited animal behaviorists and you will easily see why I and probably many others do not like them- they are attracting the attention of people who really need the help of some one who actually understands how to teach animals with out harming them at the same time.....like an actual professional in the field of animal behavior. I believe both the mentioned people prey on people who do not know they can get help from actual qualified animal trainers- lots of people do not know they exist for the general public and then they see these two pretend trainers online and on TV which makes accessing their content much easier for most average pet owners so they follow their advice.
I watched my grandfather have literally every animal legal to keep as a pet here that I can think of dumped on him so he could train them for other people who did not have the time, patience, or simply did not know what to do, so I saw many terrified animals learn confidence in themselves, communication and obedience without ever being frightened, forced, completely exhausted, physically restrained or put into dangerous situations by the person teaching them what was wanted from them.
A lot of the techniques used by celebrity 'trainers' only work if you can overpower or intimidate the animal- this is not so easy to do with a larger animal so how do people like me use those techniques for training my dog who weighs the same as me?
I want my animals to voluntarily give me the behavior I seek because they are comfortable doing so and really enjoy my response to it not because they are fearful or no longer think for themselves for fear of being wrong and harshly corrected.
He is a bully using outdated techniques and she is an idiotic attention seeker who should stop giving out terrible and dangerous advice to people. There are many things about both I really do not like and I would honestly feel violently ill and panicked if I found out either of my beloved animals were in the hands of either of these so called trainers. The training is not about communicating openly with the animal at all and it really should be.

 

[Shezbug]

I don’t trust or subscribe to “celebrity pet experts” just as a general rule. Marlene is an actress and I know she loves birds blah blah blah but I don’t think she should be handing out “advice” on YouTube and certainly not slapping her name on the label of bird food.

Lol..... a bad actress at that.

 

[KhanKrazy]

Lol..... a bad actress at that.

For someone who's lifestyle as an actress/singer/producer, whatever the heck she does in Hollywood, resolves around smoke and mirrors and entertaining people... I wish she had more to back up her stance with. That's great she promotes keeping birds out of cages and has rescued most of her birds, but she's very self centered. Half her videos she's making kissy faces at herself in the camera and checking herself out when she's talking to other people.

 

[aooratrix]

And her soliciting her "sniffers" REALLY burns me. She's had people buy her a bird. Ugh. A gift is one thing. Solicitation is another. Puke.