Buying a shy dusky?

[JapanBirdLover]

Hello all, first time on the pionus thread.
I’m thinking of buying a dusky pionus. There is a little boy dusky in the pet store, 8 months old. Pet store said they had 4 or 5 but all sold except for this one, who seems quite shy. Not extreme panicking, but can’t step up yet, and backs away from the door when someone gets close to the cage. Apparently he was worse but has slowly come to be able to take food from fingers now.
Do you think if I buy this bird he’ll come to trust me enough to step up?
I already have a green cheek who is way too Velcro, sticks to me like glue whenever she can see me. So a bird who is a little shy and wants to take things slow sounds quite good actually. I don’t need a big hugger, just a relaxed bird who will step up eventually, and we can build a bond of trust from there. Any thoughts?

 

[sunnysmom]

I think with time and patience you can build trust with any bird. And since this little guy is so young, my guess is he should come around fairly quickly.

 

[CheckeredTail]

In my experience with Toro, yes, he certainly can and will. Pionus are just naturally a bit more reserved and take time to get used to things. I might caution you that even if most Pis aren't really cuddly, they can still be very adoring and want your attention a lot. Toro picked me as her favorite and the minute I step into her sight she flys to me and sits on my shoulder. She doesn't want much head scratches, but she wants to be close to me. My wife will sometimes try to take her off for me so I can go upstairs, or to work, or go to the bathroom but she'll still leap back onto me over and over and follows me around the house. She's clingy in her own way, maybe not the same way as a parrotlet, she does have some times where she goes off to play with her toys on a nearby perch etc, but don't assume that he won't grow to want plenty of your attention.

Anyhow, that poor little guy just sounds nervous, he probably will thrive in a quieter space and such as long as you're willing to put in time with him.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Thank you @sunnysmom and @CheckeredTail , that’s exactly the kind of input I was hoping for! The little guy is not an extremely shy case, probably just nervous and I won’t need to rush him at all.
I think I’ll go visit him again. But I’m sure I won’t be able to walk away if I see him!
Interesting that you mention a quieter place, because that bird store is noisy! They have many birds stacked in quite a small room, including maybe 10 cockatoos, another 10 African Greys, a few eclectus, lorikeets, and a huge Banksian Cockatoo with a crazy loud honk. So imagine the constant unending noise level. He’ll be much quieter with me even with my conure and zebras.
It will be a new experience getting the bond of trust for him to step up, my conure was bouncing on to my hand even before we got back home from the store.

 

[tka]

Like others have said, Pionus tend to be a bit more reserved than other parrots. They like to watch you and make up their mind about you before deciding if you're trustworthy.

It took Leia about a month after bringing her home for her to step up, so don't expect it to happen immediately or even after one week. I was so worried that I was doing something wrong and that she'd never accept me! In the meantime I target trained her so I could at least get her to move around the room and go back into her cage without having to touch her. She did like to observe me, and would happily sit next to me on a tabletop stand - she just didn't want to get headscratches or to step up, and I didn't push her. She just wanted to make sure that she was putting her trust in someone who was worthy of it. She eventually decided that I was acceptable and now she's my feathery shadow - she loves hanging out on my shoulder and even "helps" me do the dishes and so on.

Pionus tend to prefer a quieter, less hectic environment so this poor little guy is probably quite stressed, which doesn't help. He'll probably need some time to just wind down and relax after being in a room full of yelling birds! I suspect he's probably a typical Pionus, maybe on the less outgoing end of the spectrum but probably not unusually shy. If you are able to work on this bird's schedule and be kind, gentle and never pressure him, then yes, bring him home! I'm sure he will blossom given time and space.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Like others have said, Pionus tend to be a bit more reserved than other parrots. They like to watch you and make up their mind about you before deciding if you're trustworthy.

It took Leia about a month after bringing her home for her to step up, so don't expect it to happen immediately or even after one week. I was so worried that I was doing something wrong and that she'd never accept me! In the meantime I target trained her so I could at least get her to move around the room and go back into her cage without having to touch her. She did like to observe me, and would happily sit next to me on a tabletop stand - she just didn't want to get headscratches or to step up, and I didn't push her. She just wanted to make sure that she was putting her trust in someone who was worthy of it. She eventually decided that I was acceptable and now she's my feathery shadow - she loves hanging out on my shoulder and even "helps" me do the dishes and so on.

Pionus tend to prefer a quieter, less hectic environment so this poor little guy is probably quite stressed, which doesn't help. He'll probably need some time to just wind down and relax after being in a room full of yelling birds! I suspect he's probably a typical Pionus, maybe on the less outgoing end of the spectrum but probably not unusually shy. If you are able to work on this bird's schedule and be kind, gentle and never pressure him, then yes, bring him home! I'm sure he will blossom given time and space.

Thank you for the advice. Yes, going slow is absolutely fine for me. If it takes a month, two months, or even six months I won’t pressure him. Reserved works pretty well for me! And thinking about how he is in that noisy bird room... make no mistake, the store is good to the birds, but that is easily the loudest bird store I’ve ever been in. And he’s sitting right at the bottom shelf, with all his siblings already bought... he’s the only quiet one in the store! It’s probably like being the only sober person at a wild party.
Those cockatoos they had were beautiful. I held one on my arm, so soft and easy to hug. But, the little dusky is the one for me! I’ll go see him again tomorrow, then get the spare cage ready!

 

[CheckeredTail]

My Maxi is so gentle, she can be very willful to have things her way, but if you're looking for a bird that's slow paced and generally more stately, Pionus are the ones. I hope you two have a great relationship together soon

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Well here’s a picture I took today at the store. Doesn’t look too bad at all. The staff member said that he is eager to come for food, especially baby food like in the picture, although he is fine with eating pellets already. Apparently when he gets nervous he has bitten staff members enough to draw blood.
I still think he is as cute as a button and I told the store I’d decide by Saturday. They are offering me a discount because of the nerves issue... but he doesn’t look like an extreme case.
Now I just have to decide whether it will be this boy or one of the African Greys they have, equally enchanting.
would the biting thing put anybody here off or do you think this will fade out as he gains trust?

 

[tka]

I think the biting will stop if you don't put him in a position to bite. Pionus will do a lot before biting and give you very, very clear signals that they're upset, cranky, don't want to be disturbed etc. If you show him that you'll listen to what he's telling you and back off if he communicates that he doesn't want to step up or wants to be left alone, then he won't feel the need to bite. He's young enough that this hasn't become an ingrained habit - many older birds go from 0 to 100 because they've realised that humans ignore all of their more subtle signals.

Leia's three and a half and she's never drawn blood. I'd occasionally got a hard beaking if I do something she really doesn't want to do (like give medication) but she's very clear about letting me know if she's upset or cross about something.

 

[CheckeredTail]

Wow that's a really cute baby! Those eyes I wouldn't be able to resist personally!

I think biting is always going to depend on your relationship and also on how you're handling them. Almost all birds bite sometimes. That's just reality. However, correctly reading body language and giving them space means you can usually avoid getting any beak-based punishment. Most birds bite as a result of feeling trapped and unable to communicate other ways. If they can get a "please don't touch me" point across by leaning away, opening their mouth threateningly, holding out their wings, rising the feathers on their neck, pinning their eyes, or making a frustrated noise, they usually will do that first. They warn you. It's if you push further without seeing the signs that the biting happens. That's true for most birds really. If he learns that he doesn't need to bite to get the space he needs, he likely won't do it.

I can't speak on Greys, but I assume it's the same for them. Biting happens, especially if you're being careless of their boundaries or they don't trust you. If you don't feel sure, then you can give it time, rushing into a big thing like getting a new bird is never a good idea.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Ok, thank you @tka and @CheckeredTail . Unless anyone jumps in the thread with red flags, I’m bringing this baby home on Saturday!
i really feel he’s the one for me. I learned to read the body language of my GCC and Linnie, and I shall be looking to do that with my dusky. The store staff member actually put her finger out towards him to demonstrate, and while he did nibble, it was a warning rather than a full force bite. Not enough to make her flinch.
So, Saturday I’ll have one more baby to look after! BTW could I ask you what size cage you have your Pionus in? Toro and Leia. I have a spare cage but I might go for a new stainless steel one at the store while I’m there on Saturday.

 

[Birdie Mama]

Hello, IMO, I think you have an advantage with your other baby there. He will see for himself by watching the other one that you are trustworthy and safe. It may still take him time but he will learn by example that you are a great buddy.
All the best, and I would take him over the grey even though I love greys. He just looks like he is really in need of a happy home, and has the advantage of a possible feathered buddy there already! More pics too please!!

 

[tka]

I don't see any red flags here. He's might be a bit nervous but Pionus tend to be reserved and sensitive. He'll almost certainly blossom in a secure, stable home. Something to be careful of is that some male Pionus can get quite temperamental and hormonal, so it's essential to set good boundaries early on. I would teach him to target a stick in exchange for a treat - this is great for moving a bird around who doesn't step up, and helps you to communicate with each other. I would also get him used to stepping up onto a stick, T-perch or rope perch - useful if he is in an unpredictable mood. @Fuzzy will have more advice on what she did her male Pi, Kobe.

These are all warnings though. Many Pis remain gentle for their whole lives. It's just good to be prepared.

Leia's in a custom designed cage that's 100cm long, 80cm wide and 112cm tall (it's on legs though, so actually about 140cm tall in total). In inches, that's about 40 x 31 x 44. She definitely uses the space and it's big enough for a variety of toys.

Pionus tend to have quite gentle beaks and prefer softer shredding materials. Leia's favourite toy materials are crosscut pine (cut across the grain), balsa, cardboard and cork. She's capable of dealing with harder woods but it's not something she seeks out or particularly enjoys.

 

[JapanBirdLover]

Thank you all again. I have ordered online another bird heater for the winter, along with some other things I’ll need to increase the flock. I hope that watching the green cheek relaxing and playing with me will give a hint to newbie dusky that I’m not all that scary.
The cage I have is too small, though. The one the store recommended I buy was 45cm x 45cm x 68cm, and even that seems small compared to what Leia has. Difficult to find something big enough online, I might have to get one custom built.
Here are the only other pics I have right now. I didn’t take these, they are from the store site.

 

[Dona]

Lovely bird, such an intelligent face!

 

[Dartman]

Lurch took a mere 5 years to go from bite immediately without warning to flying after me any time I left his sight so with enough patience and love you can earn the trust of even a scared to death and mad at the world Pionus. I think he'll come around fairly quickly as he isn't a used parrot with all the baggage poor Lurch had.
Dobby loves everyone he meets and refuses to bite. Nerd my first bird, I was his world and best friend for 31 years. Good luck I think you two are in for a long happy life together.

 

[JoJo&Loki]

Wow he’s beautiful!
I can’t wait to see pics of him growing up with you and hear all the fun stories to come!
I think you’ve made the right decision- he seems lonely and is obviously a little sad at the store with all his siblings gone. And I agree, that is such an intelligent face Also, another thread was just discussing the problems with keeping new world and old world parrots together, even if you have an air purifier it can be very bad for your conure if you were to get a grey.

Congrats to you, I can’t wait to see the baby is home pics!

 

[finchly]

Look at those eyes!

 

[Leih]

He's gorgeous! Looking forward to seeing your updates when he's home!

 

[CheckeredTail]

Toro's cage is really big too, on legs, it's 8003223 Black - 32"x23"x66" PlayTop Cage this one