Urgent Budgie struggling to motor himself

[harum.t]

Hello! I have a budgie named Moon (around 1-2 y/os)

He actually has fatty liver disease, along with his cage mate (Aster), and I have been doing my best to contain based on vets instructions.
Before I started the pellet conversion, i would use Dr Harvey's seed mix and put in pellet mash from Harrison's to get adjusted. On top of that, I would also put their milk thistle recommended by the vet. While doing this, he was always lethargic and quiet as I imagine the disease was hitting him harder compared to my other bird. I remained patient and continued with this routine for around 5-7 weeks so they got comfortable.

Then, I decided to use the regular pellet from Harrison's and had two separate bowls (one for Dr. Harvey's seeds and the other made up of Harrison's pellets) and I would place the Harrison bowl in their cage for most of the day and switch out with Dr. Harvey's seeds whenever I had to eat (breakfast, lunch, dinner) which takes me 30 minutes or so, and then I would switch back to Harrison's bowl. This routine was recommended by my vet for pellet conversion, and it was doing pretty well.

Moon actually seemed to become more active as I finally introduced him to the pellets, he would come outside of his cage and hang out, fly, motor himself decently (still tripping but was much better than before), and even speak as he was quiet for the most part! My other bird seemed content as well, I paid attention to their droppings and Aster's became black again after being a bit of green before. I was also recommended to add flaxseed oil into their pellets to control the disease, which I recently did with a seed oil that another parakeet forumer uses on their budgies.

However, today was a huge switch around. For some reason, this morning, Moon's balance did a complete 180 and now he's having trouble motoring himself again like it was back in the 5-7 weeks. He shakes/wobbles a lot too as if he's having seizures (though I can't tell if they're seizures or not because he used to have them before too but they stopped), and I noticed his droppings have a whiteness/greyness to them and are kind of liquidy. He sometimes seems to have these "shut down" moments and leans forward till regaining some kind of consciousness and trying upright himself again. He doesn't really have fluffiness either and still has motivation to eat/drink, and tried running around this morning but found it difficult due to his balance issues. My other bird isn't showing any of these signs despite them sharing this new change of diet.

I can't tell if the conversion was too fast for him and I should go back to feeding him on seeds for a bit? But both birds have been eating from the pellet whenever I placed it so it didn't even seem like an issue before. I thought the issue could possibly be with the flaxseed oil too because that's when things started going downhill once I mixed it into their pellet, but i'm not sure why that would be the case. I even removed it from their pellet (usually i would mix it in) to see if it makes a difference.

I'm not sure what to do here ): any advice?

 

[Ripshod]

I'm thinking malnutrition. What does he weigh right now?
Imho a budgie should never be converted to a pellet diet (pellets put a lot of load on the kidneys) - but I'm not a vet. I'm just wondering what change would happen if he had a lot more access to seeds (not just flax seed).

 

[harum.t]

I'm thinking malnutrition. What does he weigh right now?
Imho a budgie should never be converted to a pellet diet (pellets put a lot of load on the kidneys) - but I'm not a vet. I'm just wondering what change would happen if he had a lot more access to seeds (not just flax seed).

i’m not exactly sure how to check his weight. any recommendations on how to do that? i did try feeling his belly though and i can slightly feel his bone.

once i noticed his abnormal behavior, i switched out the pellet to the dr harvey seed bowl and kept it there (and might just do so for the remainder of the night). i was told by the vet that pellets should make up majority of their diet (with seeds and fruits and vegetables making up the rest) so that’s why i thought it might be best to tackle down getting them adjusted to pellets and then introducing them to other fruits/veggies.

i could try switching the bowls by half of the day like the pellet bowl (during mornings) and then the other half the seed bowl (during evening/night). or i could put both bowls into the cage but i think they might lean towards the seed bowl and neglect the pellets in that case. does this possibly sound good? or are their better ideas to approach this hmmm….

 

[Ripshod]

There's nothing wrong with restricting seeds so long as there are good alternatives around.
I was recommended (and stick to) 25-35% seed, 25% pellets, and the rest in veggies with a little fruit now and then as a treat.
The concern with pellets is they are formulated for parrots in general and include a lot of calcium. Budgies don't need as much calcium as other parrots, and the excess calcium from too many pellets puts their kidneys under pressure and in extreme cases can cause kidney failure through calcification. Also, budgies are granivores and need a good portion of seed in their diet.
If you're going to adjust his diet your time would be better served encouraging him to eat fresh (and cooked) veggies.
There are also seed options. If you look closely at the fat content in various mixes you'll see there is quite a wide variation. You can also mix in a good canary seed mix to reduce the fat.
Have a good read of the food forum for ideas.

Feathered Food Court

Discuss diet-related topics for your birds here

forums.avianavenue.com

 

[harum.t]

There's nothing wrong with restricting seeds so long as there are good alternatives around.
I was recommended (and stick to) 25-35% seed, 25% pellets, and the rest in veggies with a little fruit now and then as a treat.
The concern with pellets is they are formulated for parrots in general and include a lot of calcium. Budgies don't need as much calcium as other parrots, and the excess calcium from too many pellets puts their kidneys under pressure and in extreme cases can cause kidney failure through calcification. Also, budgies are granivores and need a good portion of seed in their diet.
If you're going to adjust his diet your time would be better served encouraging him to eat fresh (and cooked) veggies.
There are also seed options. If you look closely at the fat content in various mixes you'll see there is quite a wide variation. You can also mix in a good canary seed mix to reduce the fat.
Have a good read of the food forum for ideas.

Feathered Food Court

Discuss diet-related topics for your birds here

forums.avianavenue.com

Alright, I will stick to focusing on veggies and fruits now since that's what they are lacking in their diet at the moment. Do you know a forum/recommendations on how to get them interested in veggies? I have tried introducing them to strawberries and spinach but they haven't seemed to ever put much effort into eating it. I'm also unsure how to really cut it up for them so it's bite-sized (so that they maybe will try it better that way)

Also, do you have any specific fruits/veggies that are recommended to give ur parakeets on a daily? I know with fruits like bananas can possibly increase their fatty liver disease so I want to be sure to avoid anything that could possibly increase it.

 

[Ripshod]

Converting Parrots to a Healthier Diet - Tips

A healthy parrot starts with a healthy diet. Although the perfect diet is controversial, many parrot enthusiasts and experts agree on one thing; a seed only diet is a diet that is lacking in essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals. Studies have shown that adding fresh foods and pellets to a...

forums.avianavenue.com

Bird Safe Fresh Foods & Toxic Food Lists & More

I seem to be posting this more often, or referring people to it, and since I haven't added it here (got lost, tried to come back, got confused, couldn't figure it out... okay, I'm here!) thought I'd add this in, too! The list for the grains, legumes, veggies, and fruits are mostly from the...

forums.avianavenue.com

GREAT information of Nutrient/Function/What foods

NUTRIENT FUNCTION FOODS Vitamin A/Beta Carotene Maintains tissue lining, respiratory, reproductive, digestive and urinary tracts. Yellow/winter squash;; sweet potatoes/yams; carrots; egg yolks; alfalfa sprouts; endive; kale; cod liver oil; collard greens; mustard greens; turnip greens...

forums.avianavenue.com

I've always found brocolli to be a great starter veg with budgies, probably because it looks somewhat like a bunch of seed. A good variety of colours in the veggies will provide a good variety of vitamins and minerals. They'll get everything they'll need with a good balanced diet and a vatiety of colours.
This won't happen overnight. It takes most of us months to convert our birds, but I have found that as they try more veggies they'll get more adventurous and willing to try more.
I personally prefer to cook root veggies and beans and serve the rest fresh. It doesn't have to be a labour, you can easily prep a month's worth of food in an hour and freeze what you don't need straight away.
You can also look into soaking and sprouting seed. I consider sprouts to be more veg than seed, and much healthier than natural seed while more readily accepted than veggies.

 

[Ripshod]

How is Moon doing now?

 

[harum.t]

How is Moon doing now?

Hi Ripshod! Sorry for the late reply, I was dealing with family emergencies
But so far, it seemed like Moon was doing pretty alright

How their diet is going: so far, trial and error. I wanted to start out basic and got them broccoli, kale, and carrots just so they get familiarized with veggies. I cut them up into small pieces added treats to the veggie bowl and would try replacing/switching the veggie and seed/pellet bowl since that's what I did with the pellet conversion. but I forgot that the veggies probably seemed foreign and odd to them, so they would hardly touch it whenever I switched the bowls out.

Then, I decided to put broccoli on the treat holder I have to give them a better idea that its edible lol, they still weren't so interested so i placed a millet on top of the broccoli to at least get them comfortable with it since they were kinda scared of it.

But it still wasn't effective *sigh* but then i decided to cut up broccoli and put it into their seed/pellet bowl (i of course change the bowl/clean out the pieces of broccoli after two hours) and that seemed to work a bit at least for Aster because he nibbled on it and then realized the broccoli in the bowl was the same thing that's on the treat holder and would start nibbling on the treat holder broccoli too! But as for Moon...he isn't so interested :I

I'm trying to progressively put more broccoli (I even added kale into the mix today) to their seed/pellet bowl now so they get adjusted to eating it more without them completely ignoring it (also to really *work* for trying to get the seeds in the bowl) and then i will try doing the whole veggie conversion bowl trick again once they familiarize themselves with the veggies. But I'm waiting it out to see if its effective or not because it seemed effective to Aster but not Moon and I'm worried because Moon isn't showing interest, Aster will follow his lead.

Today they're a bit lethargic though? This morning, Aster was chatting up a storm when my room started getting sunny and came out to fly around here n there, but Moon didn't seem to come out all day. To be fair, i was in university for a couple of hours and had my brother supervise while i was gone but he said Moon chilled in his cage but noticed Moon preening himself a ton. Even when I came back, Moon was just quiet and in the cage, lethargic, and not speaking as often as usual (he's been quiet ever since i found out he got fatty liver disease, but while trying to fix their diet, he would speak a lot more or chirp often, so its been a while seeing him this quiet again even though he did speak a few words in the morning) and Aster came out for a bit, but would go back inside and become lethargic as well. ((UPDATE: while typing this out--Moon came out of the cage! and wow his motor skills are so much better lol!))

I knew Moon preened a ton aggressively and I always set out a water bowl outside of the cage for him and Aster to use to bathe but he isn't so interested in doing so, i don't know if i need to wash him myself because i didn't think much of the preening at first, but starting to realize it must be really bothering him and feel bad for neglecting that issue, but i assume it probably has something to do with his fatty liver disease.

but they still have motivation to eat. Moon's motor abilities are still a bit clumsy but it's still better than how it was originally, but he does at night move around a lot or aggressively preens (?) I'm not too sure since i have my lights out, in the middle of the night so do you have any ideas on how to help him out regarding his preening issue?