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Biting is out of control, need advice.

Rain Bow

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Could you do a perch like this for the door.

Please excuse the beat up home cage...

20200118_124312.jpg

20200118_124321~2.jpg

If you don't want rope, I believe that Things for wings makes a flagstone perch that (may be) able to attach like this (you'd have to go to the vendor list).

There are other vendors here that do similar perch types out of wood & PVC. Let me know what you may want & I can try to help... Or Danita can help.
 

Snowghost

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Not sure about the rope. His original perch was a wooden dowel and it was so dirty I couldn't clean it, and it was worn at the ends. I later found out after I cleaned his cage, I scraped and scrubbed the crude off, the only thing keeping the worn out ends of the perch in the cage was years of gunk. So I bought him a mazilla bird branch, Oh Lord he almost had a heart attack when he saw it. It was to small to fit on the cage anyway so I returned it. I doubt if he would go for a brightly colored rope perch.
 

Snowghost

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Here is Paco's cage. I use a plastic coated wire to secure it open at the bottom. He has free access all the time when I am home. His last owner didn't let him out much do to their cat. I have noticed he trembles when I approach him when he is on the door, but is calm when he is in cage like in this pic. Not sure if it means anything, I just like to mention my observations and see if they mean anything. Its gloomy and cold today, so he is napping. A few months ago he wouldn't do thatin front if me, baby steps!
 

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BertAllen

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I doubt if he would go for a brightly colored rope perch.
I use Vet wrap on Tinkers rope perches. This way they stay clean and I just replace the wrap when it's needed. It comes in all kinds of colours as well so you should be able to get some that is close to a wood colour.
 

Rain Bow

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What about doing something like this...

Again, excuse the mess, we redoing half my house right now & I'd edit it but I wanted you to see everything w/ his cage. I never recommend rope perches in a cage, Buddy sleeps in his travel cage & I keep a very close eye on them.

20200118_222823.jpg

Buddy only had dowel too. After 23-25 years he took to it rather quickly, I think the dowel causes pain sometimes (never wounds thankfully). Buddy's lower tray pulls out to catch the poops. Maybe you could do over the cage top... The higher up he can get, he will make his way up eventually. As for vet tape works great, can buy cheap through Walmart or Amazon. As long as Paco isnt trying to bite @ it. Some birds do, most don't.
 

Monica

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You'll have to forgive me... but I really detest that cage! Ugh! I know you can't do anything about it right now, just something to work towards replacing in the future. :)


Any chance we could take Paco away from cage (maybe allow him to see it, but not be near it) and replace that wooden dowel? You can get some bird safe branches and just cut to fit for his cage. You can use this page to find a list of safe trees, just need to be able to ID them. (there's apps but I don't know how accurate any of them are - or use websites with an "ID Tutorial")


You could also provide fresh branches with leaves still on them for an easy chew toy. That is, if he isn't freaked out by new stuff in or near his cage.
 

Monica

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Took me longer to figure out how to do this than necessary... but wanted to share these two pictures as well. This is a goffins currently being fostered until a home can be found for him. He actually has a perch and dish set up on his cage. It's not exactly very clear so I highlighted it in photos.


First photo shows the placement of the perch. The thick bar to the right is the bar that the door swings on.

T2.jpg




Door open... that perch does not hit the other side of the door at all, nor does the food dish. This can be done with wooden or rope perches. They just have to short enough to not hit the other side when being opened.

T1.jpg



An alternative to the brightly colored cotton rope perches would be sisal or jute rope perches instead. Sometimes like this. (for a quick reference)

 

Snowghost

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I never knew vet tape came in wood color. Thanks Bert. I did have a big tree branch my room mate made for Bugsy, my Amazon. Unfortunately Paco is too big for it. I was thinking of a table top gym for him to play on. He is now starting to play with the red hanging one, it is thin slabs of wood. He is also playing more with his bell. I guess that's another sign he is finally relaxing more? I do have an old T stand that came with Bugsy, its really large with a saucer type tray and two large cups. It takes up a lot of room and he was terrified of it. Thanks for all of your suggestions. Anyone else use table top play gyms for their large bird?
 

TikkiTembo

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I never knew vet tape came in wood color. Thanks Bert. I did have a big tree branch my room mate made for Bugsy, my Amazon. Unfortunately Paco is too big for it. I was thinking of a table top gym for him to play on. He is now starting to play with the red hanging one, it is thin slabs of wood. He is also playing more with his bell. I guess that's another sign he is finally relaxing more? I do have an old T stand that came with Bugsy, its really large with a saucer type tray and two large cups. It takes up a lot of room and he was terrified of it. Thanks for all of your suggestions. Anyone else use table top play gyms for their large bird?
I'm looking into getting a table top perch for Chipper. Then he can help me with dishes and stuff. And I could place it on the scale to weigh him.
 

Rain Bow

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I use a big Easter Basket for Buddy w/ a Rubbermaid tray in the bottom. I'll get you pics later. You can find them on Etsy or any of the used app's like Letitgo & Mercari, & Ebay. The last 3 are usually the cheapest. I've veen considering a safe tree for Buddy. I use this list for safe woods.


I say drag that huge T-stand & just place it on the floor & let him get used to looking @ it. You need this for cleaning his area to segregate it. Spend a week moving it closer & closer till its right under the cage. Then if possible place it atop the cage, leave it there for awhile. He probably will not get on it himself but you never know. Then you 2 can work on him perching on it. Take your time getting him unafraid, there's no rush. Your going to have to be submissive for awhile while he gets used to it. In time you can get him onto it w/ mild dominance... Still letting him "choose" to go on it. Once he's stepping on & off w/ (lotsa) encouragement & treats. Then you can work on moving it around.

This may help you avoid needing a gym. In time maybe save the funds & buy an actual Grey sized stand. I'm praying that I get some $, I'm expecting soon, so I can buy & ship a really great one that John (Cribber) builds for me. I'd like this dang cage somewhere other than my living room! The natural branches will be better for Buddy's feet & I will not just buy a stand, throw it in the trash & buy one from John later... John knows what he's doing & the mechanics of what fids do naturally. He'll also be keen on the proper size perching areas & diameters. I believe w/ a Grey they recommend 1" or more.

@Hawk12237 Is that diameter correct?
 

Snowghost

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LOL the funny thing is if I move it further away from him I will walk right into when I get in and out of bed, yeah my room is that small, that's why I was thinking of a table top play station. I have a platform perch that a friend mailed me from here. I got that out today, oh you should have seen him, fluffed up feathers and growling like a tiger. I have it sitting across the room on the fish tank. I also have foraging block for him to chew on I am going to try and get him used to that as well. Patience is all I need and hope he will get used to them. I've had a rope toy with blocks on it sitting on the top back of his cage for over a month, still won't go near it. Are greys normally this afraid of new stuff? I don't know how he was treated in the past. But the way he freaks out I wonder even if Sandy, who had him the last 6 years every did anything around him or if she just left him in the corner of the living room. He is afraid of most things. I tell him when I'm folding laundry, making the bed, feed the fish which has been working. He is so inquisitive.
 

Rain Bow

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@Monica @Hawk12237 I'm not sureabout the grey question of overly fearful.

That question being asked, I've read enough on here to know all birds have fear initially. He probably has been abused most of his life. Just the ignoring & lack of out of the cage time was abuse. IMO!

You are going to have to teach/train him to not be afraid. It took a long time for Buddy & I. I know he & my Dad spent time together & shared but I know there were times where Buddy was just ignored (because there were times where I was). It was part of my Dad's make up as a person, that had a chain of family members leading to it. You cannot change the past. You can "ONLY" live in the present & go forward. He has a better life now because of you.... Keep doing what your doing & post, question & act... & both your lives will become better rounded because of it. If you need training ideas you should go there & read. I know @Monica is there often. I do this round about thing where I post like crazy & then life blows up, tackle that & back to posting. You know I'm here if you need me. If I'm not posting, you can always Personal Msg me. I always check there even if I'm not posting.
 

Monica

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Training is the key word. It can take time, done in small increments, but that's okay. The first thing is to identify a valued reinforcer. Pamela Clark goes over in detail much more thoroughly than I ever could. :)



 

Snowghost

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@Rain Bow thanks sweetie, I do know his last owner told me that he was initially purchased from a breeder, so I assume he was a baby. He didn't like one of the men, and she said they weren't nice to him. I couldn't get her to go into detail. From the looks of his cage, as I have said in the past it was filthy. It was so dirty that when I moved him to my Amazon's cage, he himself smelled. Oh I could just cry remember it. It had six inches of soiled shredded paper in it, it was kept in the cage by sheets of plexiglass screwed to the bars. He was thin, and had been plucking, his water bottle was brown with slimy water. He probably would have died if she had not given him to me.

He is happier, his little rump has rounded out, and he is now enjoying cauliflower rice with his broccoli. He is still a little bald on his chest, I do see new feathers coming in, as I give him a nice shower with a water bottle on Saturdays, wonder if I should shower him twice a week?

I am worried that I start work tomorrow and I hope he will adjust me being gone for longer periods of time. I do go out at least once a day to run errands etc and I watch my granddaughter two afternoons a week. He will shred paper if I am gone late in the evening, not sure if this boredom or anxiety or both. I have a room mate the comes home at 5:00pm and he said he does go and say hi to him. He doesn't talk to him much and can't understand why Paco chatters when I come home, I've tried explaining to him, that Paco isn't going to chirp first unless he talks to him. Sigh...non bird people just don't get it do they?

@Monica thank you for the posts, I will difinately read them. I feel its time we step up our game, he is calm most of the time unless I get too close he will shake. I have been spending more and more time around his cage.

He loves the Andy Griffith whistle theme and has been practicing for days, he hits the high notes and its so funny listening to him.
 

Rain Bow

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Both my vets say it's best to mist them w/ a water bottle, once a day. Here that's difficult in the winter, because my house is old & very drafty. Maybe once we get done rearranging & moving items between 2 buildings the windows can get done. That is after the electric. Been very busy here the past 2 months. My only regret is I've had to spend less time w/ Buddy. He's not wanting to even come out of his cage! :arghh: On a side note his hormones were thru the roof. Maybe now that I have a bit more time @ night we can get back into the training routine before he goes to bed.

I :heart:P. Clark, as she simplifies what she's trying to explain & it's not about social media & Youtube money making schemes. I've found the majority of thosr people are either dead wrong or have a clue but... & many I see force their fids to do it. That upsets me badly. It's not the way to encourage anyone to learn. There is 1 Youtuber I like, you can tell that her & her birds work well together, she talks about them generally tho, it's not focused on diet or training, its like AA but in video. She often has vet visits filmed which I liked. That was a great help when I wasn't sure what to look for in an Avian vet.

I'm going to have to read what @Monica posted. I may have read it but I often get to remember a new key point I missed the 1st time around...

Buddy & I sing. Sometimes it's me actually singing & he makes all sorts of noises to me & the song. Other times we sing his way, I'll whistle a song & he whisles off & on. His favorite is probably the Seseme Street theme song from the 70's (not sure if it's the same), then Happy Birthday, I love to laugh (from Mary Poppins, the original), Jingle Bells, & Wheels on the bus (go round & round). You can whistle anything & Paco will probably enjoy it.

I do whistle "Called - call back" to him. Just as tho I was a flock mate, if he cannot see me he'll whisle to me. I've done a call back to that. He always knows about where I am inside & outside my house. It was one of our 1st training excersise's, before I knew for sure that this was his forever home (TY AA).

Maybe he's not unique, but I think he learns very fast & enjoys it. I think his intellegence level is up there @ Grey level but since my bird knowledge is him & all the reading I do... maybe not.

I will say this w/ hesitancy, I don't care about it in a "myself" caring way, but a learned thing for him. He knows like 5 words. I taught him 1 bad word (by accident) because I was trying to teach him my name in a shortened way. Now he will not unlearn that word & yes, it always gets my attention. I do wish my Dad wasn't going thru the divorce he had, when Buddy was under 2. His language was developing during that time & would've been up there, as he really seems to understand the basic meaning of most words. My guess us my Dad was so upset he didn't talk or train much... my Step-Mom was the love of his life. He was beside himself, during that life journey. I think his & Buddy's relationship may have been more satisfying for both of them over those 23-25 years.

Now for me, between what he makes tones for, like "I love you" & his body language, I don't need him to verbalize anything to me, He tells me anything & everything he wants to & I believe, I understand 95% (pretty good ratio), I think.

Well, I'm going to go make something to eat. I'll catch you soon! Have a great 1st day!!!
 

Snowghost

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@Rain Bow Not sure if daily spraying will work for me, unless its a light spray. I usually spray two bottles of water on him just to get him a good soaking and it takes him time to warm up, he has recently started spreading his wings during the shower. I agree it is cold, going to 13 here tonight in Virginia. I don't want to spray when its only a high of 22 degrees. I am trying to get him used to towels, as I line the bottom of his cage with two hand towels to catch all of the water that I spray on him. I might try a big bowl, but have to get a few pay checks under my belt. Trying to get him used to a bowl will probably be a challenge.

He is back to enjoying his warm sweet potatoes, cauliflower rice and other veggies. Less worry for me on his diet.

All in all he seems pretty happy and is preening and eating well. I hope to get a travel cage this summer and get him a check up so I know how his health is.

I just realized I forgot to mention, he does not know how to fly. That was another reason I took down the T stand, he has no way of getting to it. I could try a ladder? Again we have the fear factor going on. Right now I haven't asked him to step up, just place a treat in his bowl and letting him climb back into his cage. Lately he hasn't been getting on top of his cage first thing in the morning and I won't stick my hand in his cage to get his water bowl. I know he will bite, it is screwed in from the bottom, (no cup tossing). I just hope he gets out of his cage tomorrow, don't want to be late for my first day.

Not sure how I can encourage him to get out of his cage first thing in the morning so I can change his water and food. I do make sure the water is fresh and clean before bedtime. I know I worry. I can't help it. Thanks again to everyone for their patience with me and the info I get for Paco.

Hugs!
 

Rain Bow

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Give him pellets in the morning & do fresh @ night when your home to take it out. You may want to try small coop cups. Easier to pop in & out, I use these types in his travel carrier & there's 1 in his big cage. No screws, just lift & out. I use a zip tie to hold the stand in. Buddy tries to walk on the one in his regular cage & w/out the zip tie he'd be falling to the floor. Buddy knows how to fly, I taught then he flew. Try to teach him "So big!" Like he does when he's bathing... It will build from there. If not his vascular system & air system will not work properly as he ages. I got the so big to work w/ my really long hair like wings & also a large towel acting like wings. I just played, no every time I get dressed or someone removes a coat he's so big. Play equals trust & companionship which leads to better training longterm.
 

Rain Bow

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Not dirt in the water... Bubbles.

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Snowghost

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oh I had the cups that would lift out, then he figured out he could flip them, so I got the big plastic one that screws in and a large seed cup that slides into metal like arms, I don't really like it as it is really is snug, wouldn't recommend it for water, as you would end up sloshing water every where. However, he was spilling too much food. Funny thing is he doesn't flip his "goody" cup. He only nibbles on pellets if in the morning he is hungry and eats them before I get his goodies filled and then I feed him his nutri berries.

I need some suggestions. I don't want to leave cold oatmeal or carrots, etc in his goodie bowl. What kind of dry treats could I leave him during the day?
 
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