Birds of Different Gender/Different Species - Hormones?

[WikiWaz]

Hello All,

It's been awhile. And so much has happened in my life since. I'll have to write about it another time.

But I have a question for you.

My adoption paperwork for a diamond dove was denied by a bird shelter because I have male birds in the house. When I stated these birds were of a different species (ex. two male budgies), I was still denied. They wouldn't let me adopt her because they have a strict policy about no males/no female birds cohabitating in the same house together even if the species are different. They said something like, even though budgies are a different species, the hormones can make species of different birds hormonal.

What do you make of this?

I applied for her over a year ago, and she's there, still stuck at the shelter. Poor thing. I know that shelters want to give birds the best life possible, but I'm irritated that they denied me over, what I see is, an over exaggerated concern. At some point, don't you want your birds to go to a good home?

Maybe it is over exaggerating? I don't know. What are your thoughts?

 

[Karearea]

That reasoning is crazy! Imagine if you weren't allowed to get a male cat because you had a female dog? Or fish? There's no reason that the sex of a budgie would have any impact on the wellbeing of a diamond dove, the two cannot reproduce and rarely interact even in shared living situations. Birds don't use pheromones either. Maybe it's for the best that you're not adopting from them, but I hope that diamond dove finds a good home.

 

[WikiWaz]

What frustrates me about the two shelters in my area is how strictly they gatekeep over even the smallest details, insisting that a home be a 100% perfect fit. As a result, many parrots end up staying at the shelter far longer than they should.

I do think a safe, responsible owner with the right housing situation is a must, but being denied on this detail just really irks me.

I went back and rechecked my email...I think that poor little diamond has been there for over two years, actually.

 

[Mizzely]

I think that is a ridiculous reasoning. If they were a species that could potentially interbreed, "maybe" I could see that being an issue. But its not like you can interbreed a dove with a budgie. Almost feels like they are looking for reasons to deny people.

 

[MnGuy]

I’m no expert and I don’t think it’s a big issue to have birds of both genders, but the owner of our local parrot supply store who used to be a veterinarian has recommended against mix-gender flocks when possible.

 

[HelenVanessaDavies]

I've never heard of rescues insisting complete gender separation despite differing species. I understand same species over breeding concerns. I wonder if they're worried hormonal budgies would bully the diamond dove... but it sounds like it's their policy no matter the species involved. Very odd and as you say must really restrict the homes available.

 

[WikiWaz]

Thanks everyone.

I hope that sweetie pie diamond dove gets adopted.

 

[Finchbreed]

As someone who has Diamond doves, in Aust where they and Budgies come from. I can tell you that even in the wild they do not interact in a hormonal way.
Diamond doves and budgies are just not compatible in that way, or, ideally in the same unrestricted space. My mother is a Budgie breeder, and we accept that they are bullies to non hookbills in many cases.
Hope someone adopts the poor Diamond Dove soon.

 

[Neoandme]

I think that is just madness its not even the same species! Its not like you want to breed her with your budgies... I don't know the shelter has their rules I guess even if we don't agree with it

 

[conurehrdr]

What the heck? I can see wanting to prevent breeding between species of conures and macaws, etc, but a Diamond dove? With Budgies? My mind is blown.

 

[WikiWaz]

As someone who has Diamond doves, in Aust where they and Budgies come from. I can tell you that even in the wild they do not interact in a hormonal way.
Diamond doves and budgies are just not compatible in that way, or, ideally in the same unrestricted space. My mother is a Budgie breeder, and we accept that they are bullies to non hookbills in many cases.
Hope someone adopts the poor Diamond Dove soon.

Budgies seem to be little bullies to every bird. My Sunny gets away with all his mischievous ways because he's so cute and small.

Perhaps a diamond dove isn't the best choice to be with budgies if budgies would bully them.

 

[Finchbreed]

My Diamond doves share with Zebra finches and King Quail (Aussie name - so google)
They can be besties with the quail.

 

[Zilga]

We have a mixed gender and species flock, and the only cross species interest we have ever seen is when Mochi was obsessed with Olive until we got her some same-species friends (both girls btw, and I'm not sure it was hormonal rather than loneliness).

 

[LozBin]

In my mixed-species flock, I have a singleton female kakariki, Chocobo, who was moderately fixated on a male budgie, Eeyore, who ignored her completely.

After Eeyore passed, she eventually settled on another male budgie, Prothall, who is tolerant of her and in a platonic sense, is friendly towards her.

Another male budgie, Finarfin, used to obsess over her and even stood on her back on one or two occasions but the romance never went anywhere and is somewhat historical now.

I've not seen and behaviours or consequences to date that have caused me any real concern.

 

[BrianB]

What utter nonsense. The rescue should know that basic biology makes them genetically incompatible. Their breeding behavior is different, and some basic research would show that. Rigid rules with no flexibility keep birds from finding great homes.

 

[MnGuy]

No one expects there to be an actual breeding or genetic compatibility between those species.

My female CAG has a habit of laying eggs in the spring and my vet recommends removing anything that encourages that. We all know that's common sense, right?

Well, my male ringneck used to run around shredding newspapers and offering her nesting materials. That could encourage her nesting behavior. (I keep my birds separated for their own safety.)

We know birds can get hormonal because of interactions with their humans. My female CAG seems to fall for any man over 6 feet tall. It's logical to think that birds could be as triggered, it note more so, with other birds, and particularly other birds of the opposite sex. That's probably the rescue's logic.

I'm not saying I agree with their rules, but let's not pretend that there isn't some real world logic to it.

 

[Karearea]

No one expects there to be an actual breeding or genetic compatibility between those species.

My female CAG has a habit of laying eggs in the spring and my vet recommends removing anything that encourages that. We all know that's common sense, right?

Well, my male ringneck used to run around shredding newspapers and offering her nesting materials. That could encourage her nesting behavior. (I keep my birds separated for their own safety.)

We know birds can get hormonal because of interactions with their humans. My female CAG seems to fall for any man over 6 feet tall. It's logical to think that birds could be as triggered, it note more so, with other birds, and particularly other birds of the opposite sex. That's probably the rescue's logic.

I'm not saying I agree with their rules, but let's not pretend that there isn't some real world logic to it.

The trouble is that this rescue doesn't seem to believe an owner capable of making their own decisions on this matter. They could have advised the adoptee to keep the two in separate rooms, or separate them if hormones are triggered. But, to keep a solo diamond dove (a very social species) by herself for multiple years? I think they are keeping her in a far worse situation than she would be with a dedicated owner, whether they have other birds or not.

 

[Karearea]

I think that brings up another interesting topic. It's very common to hear the phrase "adopt don't shop" in regards to parrots, but it's also very common for people to be denied from adopting even if they'd be perfect for that bird. If someone has the time, energy, money, and experience to care for a large bird (for example), is it right to deny them because they haven't owned that specific species before? Or have previously bred their budgies? I hear about these denials quite a lot, but also how rescues are "overflowing" with parrots. It's important to remember that rescues are not all equal and some are not worth supporting - just as you wouldn't support a store that keeps their birds in poor conditions. Adopt responsibly and shop responsibly!

 

[MnGuy]

The trouble is that this rescue doesn't seem to believe an owner capable of making their own decisions on this matter. They could have advised the adoptee to keep the two in separate rooms, or separate them if hormones are triggered. But, to keep a solo diamond dove (a very social species) by herself for multiple years? I think they are keeping her in a far worse situation than she would be with a dedicated owner, whether they have other birds or not.

I don't know anything about this rescue and I certainly think there are issues with a lot of rescues working with different types of pets, but what if this bird is a chronic egg layer and needs stricter boundaries?

My female CAG was a chronic egglayer and the only thing that helped was switching vets to my current avian vet, who has a female CAG of her own. I did not want to expose my CAG to anything that would give her the slightest hormonal reaction.

Ultimately, we either trust that a rescue know what it's doing for a particular animal, or if we disagree, walk away. The point of my post is that the rescue in question here isn't inventing an issue, which many people seem to say they are.

 

[Karearea]

I don't know anything about this rescue and I certainly think there are issues with a lot of rescues working with different types of pets, but what if this bird is a chronic egg layer and needs stricter boundaries?

My female CAG was a chronic egglayer and the only thing that helped was switching vets to my current avian vet, who has a female CAG of her own. I did not want to expose my CAG to anything that would give her the slightest hormonal reaction.

Ultimately, we either trust that a rescue know what it's doing for a particular animal, or if we disagree, walk away. The point of my post is that the rescue in question here isn't inventing an issue, which many people seem to say they are.

You can ask "what if X" and "what if Y", but ultimately it would not change the rescue's decision to adopt to homes with birds of the opposite sex. The OP says that this rule is "a strict policy", not a case by case decision. They would have the same verdict if the bird had no issues whatsoever, which is limiting how many birds go to good homes.