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Being offered African Greys that have come from the Congo...

Chui123

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Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and was struggling to find many opinions through Google, so thought I would do a post in here.

I'm an experienced parrot owner, I've hand reared umbrella cockatoos and African greys, as well as rehabilitated & re homes abused birds such as eclectus.

I live in Africa now and moved to Tanzania a couple of years ago.

My cockatoo sadly died about 3 years ago, she was a rescued baby and was never 100% her whole life, but we had a few amazing years with her, and my other African grey stayed with family back home.

Now that I'm going to be staying in Tanzania long term, I have decided I need to fill the parrot shaped hole in my life and decided to search for a baby CAG.

There aren't really any proper breeders out here, the first language isn't English, so this isn't an easy task.

A local friend managed to find me a breeder who has three 12 week old babies, sounds great I thought. Previously my two birds came to me at 6 weeks which was great as I really think it helped us bond, but as the new bird would be traveling I thought 12 weeks would be about right.

It all sounds great, except today I found out that the birds have come direct from the Congo. They weren't bred here.

This obviously has caused me to question quite a bit, apparently all the parrots sold here are from the Congo. What would be your feelings on this?

Thank you in advance!
 

Sylvi_

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I can't give much advice but welcome to the avenue! :welave:
I'm sure the right feathered companion will find you soon.
 

Macaw Lover

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Please don't buy one. These babies would be illegally obtained, stolen from their native habitat, more then likely the parents killed while trying to protect their babies. The US has laws that prevent people from doing this and brining them into our country and selling them. Illegal trade like this is a bad thing and should not be supported by buying one.
 

Chui123

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Please don't buy one. These babies would be illegally obtained, stolen from their native habitat, more then likely the parents killed while trying to protect their babies. The US has laws that prevent people from doing this and brining them into our country and selling them. Illegal trade like this is a bad thing and should not be supported by buying one.
Thank you for the reply :)

This was my concern however apparently the birds come with the necessary paperwork for export, so I was quite confused.
 

sunnysmom

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:welcomesign:
 

Cynthia & Percy

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welcome
 

Macaw Lover

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Thank you for the reply :)

This was my concern however apparently the birds come with the necessary paperwork for export, so I was quite confused.

I highly doubt the paper work is legitimate. There was an article with pics of Greys stuffed in the plastic pop bottle which were being smuggled in. Seems it is a big illegal trade going on with them.

You have to wonder what really happens with all these birds are found and still alive. If they are young do they know how to survive in the wild what with being ripped from their families? Doubt it. If people would stop buying all these smuggled birds, the smuggling rings would dry up and stop.
 

Scamperdoo

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I have seen several breeders on the web that will ship anywhere and they breed the birds themselves. See Breeders List

We have enough species on the endangered list from people taking them from the wild to make a profit. They will keep doing it as long as there is demand. Buying that bird fuels demand.
 
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Macaw Lover

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I have seen several breeders on the web that will ship anywhere and they breed the birds themselves. See Breeders List

We have enough species on the endangered list from people taking them from the wild to make a profit. They will keep doing it as long as there is demand. Buying that bird fuels demand.

Chui123 lives in Africa so trying to buy one from here and shipping to Africa would not be possible.
 

Marcella

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@Chui123 - you raise an interesting subject. Paper work is worth nothing except for the paper it is written on. I would suggest that you visit the breeders' facilities.
If that is not possible, for me, it's a deal breaker. I have a dream to own an African Grey. It may or may not be realized.
I am not condemning legitimate breeders in Africa. 12 weeks would be an appropriate age. Greys need their role models to fully develop. They must be abundance weaned and have learned how to fully fledge (fly, navigate corners, put on the brakes to land where they choose, and hover). Do your homework and research.
However, being that you live in the Congo, I would be exceptionally careful that you are not buying a live-caught CAG. Do not rush!!
The illegal trade and exportation of CAG's is still alive and well where you live. Think hard, scrutinize, analyze and visit the breeder.
If it is a legitimate breeder, go on site to see the breeding pair(s) and their conditions.
Ask the following questions:
1) when do you remove the babies from the nest - answer should be 3-6 weeks.
2) at what age do you send the babies home - answer should be 16-24 weeks of age
3) are the babies allowed go fully fledge - addressed above
4) how long are they allowed to fledge and develop their flying ability
5) when do they become food independent - what foods have they been offered? Ideally a high-quality pellet, and lots of fruits and veggies - with the veggies taking priority over the fruits. And pellets just for nibbling. Save high value foods: nuts, seed for training purposes as rewards.
6) are the wings clipped before going to new home. If so, how is this clip accomplished. Is it a "long clip" - no good. Is it a gradual clip - your bird should still be able to have confidence to fly after a light, correct clip. I favour no clipping at all, but it is your choice.
 

Chui123

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@Chui123 - you raise an interesting subject. Paper work is worth nothing except for the paper it is written on. I would suggest that you visit the breeders' facilities.
If that is not possible, for me, it's a deal breaker. I have a dream to own an African Grey. It may or may not be realized.
I am not condemning legitimate breeders in Africa. 12 weeks would be an appropriate age. Greys need their role models to fully develop. They must be abundance weaned and have learned how to fully fledge (fly, navigate corners, put on the brakes to land where they choose, and hover). Do your homework and research.
However, being that you live in the Congo, I would be exceptionally careful that you are not buying a live-caught CAG. Do not rush!!
The illegal trade and exportation of CAG's is still alive and well where you live. Think hard, scrutinize, analyze and visit the breeder.
If it is a legitimate breeder, go on site to see the breeding pair(s) and their conditions.
Ask the following questions:
1) when do you remove the babies from the nest - answer should be 3-6 weeks.
2) at what age do you send the babies home - answer should be 16-24 weeks of age
3) are the babies allowed go fully fledge - addressed above
4) how long are they allowed to fledge and develop their flying ability
5) when do they become food independent - what foods have they been offered? Ideally a high-quality pellet, and lots of fruits and veggies - with the veggies taking priority over the fruits. And pellets just for nibbling. Save high value foods: nuts, seed for training purposes as rewards.
6) are the wings clipped before going to new home. If so, how is this clip accomplished. Is it a "long clip" - no good. Is it a gradual clip - your bird should still be able to have confidence to fly after a light, correct clip. I favour no clipping at all, but it is your choice.

Thanks Marcella for your reply, i really appreciate it.

I have owned two African greys (lives with family in South Africa) and hand reared numerous birds. Over in Africa we usually take them much younger at 7/8 weeks, syringe feed them ourselves and wean them, it's just the norm here and I, and no one I know has ever had a problem.

I always wait until they've fledged too before clipping :)

I also don't live in the Congo, I live in Tanzania and sadly there are no listed breeders here. :)

I am flying over to the mainland (I live on a small island) on Saturday to meet the man selling them and view all of his birds. That way I can assess their condition, and check out his story.

What I've been told today is that the birds are bred in captivity in the Congo, and then shipped down here for the growing pet market. If that is true then it would make sense. There are of course an abundance of legitimate CAG breeders in the Congo from the days it was permissible to take a certain amount from the wild, so it could be legit.

I work for a company all about African conservation so I wouldn't do anything to encourage poaching, it's our biggest battle out here.

Thank you for the replies and advice all. I feel better now I know the story, and will see if it checks out on Saturday I guess! :)
 

Macaw Lover

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I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that this is a legitimate breeder who has the actual parents.
 

JLcribber

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Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and was struggling to find many opinions through Google, so thought I would do a post in here.

I'm an experienced parrot owner, I've hand reared umbrella cockatoos and African greys, as well as rehabilitated & re homes abused birds such as eclectus.

I live in Africa now and moved to Tanzania a couple of years ago.

My cockatoo sadly died about 3 years ago, she was a rescued baby and was never 100% her whole life, but we had a few amazing years with her, and my other African grey stayed with family back home.

Now that I'm going to be staying in Tanzania long term, I have decided I need to fill the parrot shaped hole in my life and decided to search for a baby CAG.

There aren't really any proper breeders out here, the first language isn't English, so this isn't an easy task.

A local friend managed to find me a breeder who has three 12 week old babies, sounds great I thought. Previously my two birds came to me at 6 weeks which was great as I really think it helped us bond, but as the new bird would be traveling I thought 12 weeks would be about right.

It all sounds great, except today I found out that the birds have come direct from the Congo. They weren't bred here.

This obviously has caused me to question quite a bit, apparently all the parrots sold here are from the Congo. What would be your feelings on this?

Thank you in advance!

Do the right thing my friend. Do you really want someone else's stolen child?
 

kathyth

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Welcome to the forum. Glad you will be getting another parrot and happy to read you work with conservation. You will make he right decision.
Looking forward to updates.
:)
 

rockybird

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Welcome to AA! :)

My mother spent a year in Senegal a few years ago. She said I wouldnt believe the horrific things she saw regarding wild parrots captured for sale there. She started to elaborate but I asked her not to. I couldnt bear to hear it. :(

The whole thing sounds fishy, to be honest. But I suppose it would be unfair to reach a conclusion without knowing all the facts. Still, I would personally avoid taking a baby from him/her. I couldnt risk playing any role in the decimation of wildlife there, especially wild parrots. You could always outright ask where the eggs came from and they might have a perfectly legitimate and acceptable answer.

Are you able to take the bird back with you should you decide to move back to your home country?
 

Bokkapooh

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I just wanted to chime in here that they will still needing to be handfed at 12 weeks old...most are not weaned until 16+ weeks.
 
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