Beak cues

[Atomiklan]

As some of you may already know from my plethora of posts over the last several months, I am still very new to the world of birds. Every day is pretty much a new experience for me. Today for example, Lada finally started REALLY talking (but only when she thought I couldn't hear her haha). While that's neat and deserving of its own space, its not the cause for this particular post so let me get back on track. I am trying to determine what Lada is trying to tell me occasionally when she is on my shoulder. Sometimes I will take her to the couch and we'll relax for a bit and watch some TV or snuggle up for a cat nap. I have a blanket over the back of the couch in case of accidents. She is not house trained (yet), and this information may be important in a bit.

When she is on my shoulder on the couch, usually she sits still and watches the TV or looks around the room. Sometimes she snuggles down for a nap. I have finally picked up on a behavior of hers, but have not seen it enough yet to determine any patterns. Here is what she will do. She will go from sitting quite content to suddenly taking her beak and gently running it up the side of my face starting from the jaw line up to the temple. She will repeat this three or four times. I don't yet know exactly what this is. We are still working on skritches (she is still warming up to me), so I don't think she is asking for attention just yet. The only thing I can possibly think of is, this is her way of getting my attention that she needs to relieve herself.

Part of me believes this is a logical hypothesis as right after she did the behavior today, she climbed down off my shoulder onto my arm and took care of business (unfortunately still on my shirt haha). This makes sense, however a one time occurrence is clearly not statistically relevant. I'll watch to see if she does it again in the future. Part of also thinks that perhaps that's not what happened and that it was just a coincidence. I didn't necessarily need to move for her to climb down to what she may have considered a more appropriate spot. She could have just as easily climbed to the same spot without telling me, pooping right off the back of my shoulder as she has done in the past, or stepped back onto the back of couch to poop wherever. Why she needed to notify me seemed unnecessary. Now I sincerely hope that's what she was doing as this is an incredible step towards house training before I even really get started. As far as I know, she was never house trained, so why she would exhibit that behavior to begin with seems odd.

Please give me your thoughts. What do you think she is trying to tell me? Thank you!

 

[Mizzely]

It really could be anything, but most likely it's just a way of engaging with you. Potty training isn't natural for a bird so there wouldn't really be a need to communicate that need to you (and can actually be harmful for them, as if the "conditions aren't correct" they may hold it too long and cause health issues, or they will try to go on command and this can sometimes cause a prolapse)

 

[janicedyh]

I don't know what it is about pooing and Eclectus, everyone I have been in contact with says their bird will never poo on them unless they miss all their cues(without training) . Dobey begs toward his perch when he wants to poo. I know its not good for birds to hold their poo .. just mentioning it might just be a trait common to eclectus

 

[Lodah]

Potty training seems to be a contested subject and for good reasons... I have had a great deal of success with training my fid to poop on his perches and also on areas that have newspaper located underneath them! That doesn't mean that he always get it right, and he in not in anyway forced to do so! But... he enjoys the attention when he does do the right thing! Plus no crap anywhere to be found!

 

[sunnysmom]

I am one of the people against potty training. That said, Elvis is potty trained. LOL. He came to us like that. I don't know if he was taught it or if he does it naturally. But he rubs his beak on your cheek when he wants to go back to his cage to go to the bathroom and he gets very agitated if you don't take him back. Of course, he can actually fly, but he likes to be carried back.

 

[Atomiklan]

I guess I am on the other side of the fence. From a naturalistic perspective, I find it incredibly hard to believe that holding back can cause them issues. Try holding yourself back next time and let me know how that goes haha. Seriously though, it's a natural process and the digestive tract for the most part is a member of the involuntary muscular group. The body is designed to rid itself of waste and will do so involuntarily. We all reach a point, bird and human, where holding back no longer becomes an option. I personally do not see any issue with house training, but will happily change my opinion if someone is able to produce multiple avian studies from reputable medical authorities proving that this method of training is harmful. As for the original question though, does anyone have any additional thoughts on what she might be trying to tell me? Thank you!

 

[Donna turner]

To poop or not to poop.... I'm staying out of that discussion, but why can the beak rubbing be a sign of contentment and affection

 

[Atomiklan]

why can the beak rubbing be a sign of contentment and affection

Why not exactly. Good suggestion. These are the types of additional ideas I have been seeking. Thank you!

 

[TikiMyn]

Henkie(lovebird) does Something like that! For him it is a sign of affection. He Will do that over my whole face sometimes. Fëanor(lovebird) does it As well, also on my arms or hands, but only after a shower. They like the drops of water. Fëonor does it sometimes to explore As well, he Will very gently feel my face(well sometimes not so gentle! Silly bird)

 

[Atomiklan]

Had her on my shoulder just now for a bit. She didn't need to poop, but she also didn't do the beak rubbing behavior described above. She did nibble oh so gingerly on my ear which was either her being bored and needing something to chew on or she was preening me which is so very sweet of her (and probably a great sign that we're starting to bond).

 

[Atomiklan]

@TikiMyn I LOVE how how your green bcc is named Blue

 

[TikiMyn]

Hmm my bet is that the two of you are bonding! And thank you! He is a little darling

 

[JLcribber]

I guess I am on the other side of the fence. From a naturalistic perspective, I find it incredibly hard to believe that holding back can cause them issues.

I personally do not see any issue with house training

That's what all brand new inexperienced birds owners say because they haven't studied/learned about it. It's also obvious you've never seen or experienced a bird pushing it's entire cloaca outside of it's body. A common result of potty training. If you study the anatomy of a bird, you realize that they are meant to go when they have to. They have to remain lightweight at all times as they are a prey animal and be ready for flight at any given moment. They do not possess lengthy colons to store excrements.

 

[Atomiklan]

Thank you @JLcribber for the comment. I still would like to see peer reviewed studies from reputable veterinarians first. If all the data points the other direction I am very happy to modify or completely change my point of view, but I can't do so on anecdotal evidence alone. Do you have some recommended reading (accredited) for me that directly links what you're saying with house training? You're right, I have not experienced what you are referring to, but this seems to be one of those hot button issues on AA with people vehemently defending both sides. I must therefore defer to the experts and the data. I am all ears sir! Please send me some data and I will forever abandon the idea of house training.

 

[JLcribber]

And while you do your own research on their anatomy take extra notice of the specialized unique Ekkie system (as compared to other parrots) and see how potty training can be even more dangerous for them.

I don’t need studies. Almost 40 years of living with birds tells me all I need to know

 

[Atomiklan]

I'm glad you have so much experience over the years and I am not dismissing your advice, but again, without any hard data, there is nothing of substance there to really help me or anyone that comes behind me. Over your 40 years, did you have hundreds of birds pass away, all from the same condition, all having been house trained or do you just have 40 years living happily with non house trained birds? If the latter, that doesn't tell us anything. Now if you have something statistically significant to report in your 40 years of experience, then again, I am all ears, but until then all I am hearing is an opinion that has been solidified over the past 40 years. I am not trying to be confrontational. I am simply requesting something other than anecdotes. Please give me some solid, well supported evidence and I will immediately change my opinion. What over your last 40 years drove you to that conclusion?

 

[janicedyh]

I have also heard about the harmful effects of house training. Dobey is just more comfortable pooping from a perch because he wants to be off the ground and off of me before hand. He doesn't have enough feather structure to his wings to fly onto anything. My smaller birds just go whenever and wherever they feel the urge. They are birds : )

 

[Atomiklan]

Thank you @janicedyh for your comment. Unfortunately its the same problem though. "I heard about the harmful effects". Again, its just word of mouth, speculation, opinion, etc. Does no one out there have multiple documented cases, warnings from certified avian veterinarians, statistics, etc.?

 

[iamwhoiam]

I remember reading that the build up of fecal matter can lead to cloacal blockage or prolapsed cloaca. Don't remember the source, though. It depends on how long the bird is forced to hold it or if the bird is directed to only poop in one specific area.

Update, found this:
Info cited from "Avian Medicine and Surgery: Self Assessment Review" pg. 56 --
Case 51...asks about characteristic historical findings of Cockatoos with cloacal prolapse. One of the characteristics may be the "tendency to hold the feces for a prolonged period of time (which may have been stimulated further by potty training by the owner.)"

 

[tka]

Bear in mind that this might not be a study that is available. Longitudinal studies about house training simply may not have been done, especially with the kind of rigour that you're demanding.

However, there is anecdotal evidence from vets warning about cloacal prolapse and bird that have become so well-conditioned to poo on command that they will only poo on command, leading to problems if their owners are away for any length of time.

Mammal and avian toileting habits are not comparable due to their different physiology. Birds have a cloaca, and do not pass urine and faeces seperately. While there is muscular tissue in the cloaca, I'm not sure if it's as strong as a mammlian sphincter.