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Baby GCC’s

Fulmer

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Okay now I’m getting frustrated with you and your arrogance. I am surprised but happy with chicks and I already stated that I made some mistakes and will learn from them. I thought since the last clutch did not survive and never even developed after two months of the birds brooding that they were two females or infertile. I should of removed the box and or separated them- lesson learned. I hope that you are perfect and never make any errors in judgement. I also hope that no one ever asks your advice because unlike myself they may stop asking for help and education and then the animals would suffer.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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I really don't have much else to add other than removing your nest box after the chicks are out of the box. I'm not sure if your are referring to @mythic55 as to being arrogant but I didn't see that in her reply at all. She simply stated she understood your attachment to the birds and were willing to risk the possibility of more eggs. Really, we all have your best interest as well as your birds so please understand and stay with us. It is true the process of egg laying is hard on females, especially when there are back to back clutches. Diet at this time is very important for your pair to remain healthy.

A sleep box for me is an open ended box where the birds can go inside but not feel like an enclosed box that may contribute to nesting behaviors. This is what I use for a sleep box I had made for me. Big enough for a bird to turn around in and a peek hole. None of my males and females are kept together at this point and only have supervised time together when I'm with them to discourage any breeding ( because I'm done with raising and have been since 2009 ).

ScarlettBox 1.JPG

ScarletteBox 2.JPG

There are specific spoons for hand feeding if you have to go that route.




Some people will use a plastic spoon... heat it ( very hot water to heat the spoon) and shape it to the same form as the spoons above. Saw a link to that a couple days ago when someone else needed help but can't find it now.

 

Fulmer

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@Fulmer You've already received a bunch of great advice so far! And thank you for being patient with some of us, too! When we love something, and we're very passionate about the subject, things we say may come across more harsh than they are meant to!

I only have a few questions myself....


What size cage are they in?

Are they flighted or clipped?

What are your "green conures"? Just looking for clarification as there are green cheek conures, actual *green* conures (completely different coloration's, body shape, vocalizations, size, etc), and many other species of conures that could be labeled as "green conures" when they are something else. Perhaps you could share a photo?
I completely understand the passion.
I have had to intervene many times with my surgeons because they have been frustrated with clients because they were uneducated and made poor choices. I just tell the doctors that it does no good you treat the clients poorly because they lack education and if they treat them that way they make not get there animal care next time.
I meant to say green cheek conures they were clipped when I got them a year ago but are now flighted. Picture attached☺ The cage is 4 feet high by 3 wide☺

Thank you for your response and patience
 

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Mockinbirdiva

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Just an FYI on making a bent spoon from a plastic spoon for any of those who wish to use this method of hand feeding. Copied and pasted with the link to that page as well ( even though the link is about raising budgies... this still applies) . I knew I saw it someplace.



Feeding and hygiene

A disposable syringe, which is easily available in most medical stores, can be used for feeding the young birds. Syringe feeding is faster and less messy. However, if unavailable, then the next best alternative would be to use an eye dropper or a plastic teaspoon. Spoon feeding maybe lengthy and messy, but its ultimately beneficial as you could use thicker consistency food towards the end of the hand rearing process. The slender tip of the spoon can be dipped in boiling water and then bent make a funnel, thus making it easy to use for hand feeding.

Disposable syringe feeder


Bent spoon feeder


 

Zara

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I highly recommend the spoon method should you need to feed the chicks. Feeding with a syringe incorrectly can lead to aspiration. It’s very risky for inexperienced people.

Also, I love the photo ! :cloud9:
 

Fulmer

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Perfect that’s similar to puppies and kittens with the aspiration. I will do the spoon if necessary hopefully not though because they are doing as amazing job parent raising
Thank you so much ☺
 

Nobirby

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Welcome. I wish you the best with all your birds. Just keep loving them.
 

Fulmer

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Oh I do have another question someone said keep the chicks box temperature at 104 to 106 degrees Fahrenheit which seems awfully high. We have the house temp at at least 75 degrees and have a space heater next to the cage. Should we have a heat lamp also or are you doing enough

Thank you ☺
 

Zara

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someone said keep the chicks box temperature at 104 to 106 degrees Fahrenheit which seems awfully high.
That is formula temp.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Yes... as @Zara said that temperature given in the thread was for the formula temperature. I always fed my chicks at 105-107 degrees F. I will look for sites that have more information in regard to a brooder, temp of the brooder according to the age of the chicks, feeding schedules.. etc. Your house temperature and space heater next to the cage would not be sufficient if you take the chicks out of the nest box for hand rearing. As long as they remain in the nest box with the parents it's fine because either the parents in the box and other chicks will keep each other warm.

Let me ask you this... are you solely going to leave the chicks with the parents or are you going to take them out of the box to place in a brooder for hand feeding? I think I saw you mention you were going to handle the babies starting at 2 weeks. You will quickly find out green cheeks are fierce guardians of their nest. Doing so will risk injury of the chicks as the parents will charge you and may trample the chicks. They are not a species that make co-parenting easy ( pulling and giving additional hand feeding via prepared formula and returning chicks to the nest). It doesn't matter if the pair were tame and held by you... intruders are not welcome when their are babies present.
 

Fulmer

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That is formula temp.
Ohhhhh thank goodness you cleared that up lol I thought my goodness that’s hot. This is exactly why I’m reading and getting advice and education from multiple sources. ❤
Truly thank you again
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Additionally, what type of nestbox do you have, bedding inside the box, what formula did you choose should you need to feed. This link has some good information on brooder types but as you read the whole information in this link I would say I don't agree with some things written... IE - handling and kissing babies, microwaving the food, adding unsalted peanut butter to the formula unless absolutely needed, clipping flights after chicks wean and learn to fly prior to going home with a new bird owner, the omission of a thermometer to test the temperature - I might have missed it as I scan the information for key parts ( I will say this breeder has successfully been raising several species with great success for quite some time).

 

Mockinbirdiva

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Additional information for you to study up on. Not that this may happen with your hen but good to know. It is one of the reasons we suggest removing a nest box after chicks are out of the box. More often than not a hen will be driven by the male to mate again and start the whole egg laying process again before she has recovered from the previous clutch. Back to back clutches are detrimental to the hen, can cause serious health issues or even death.

 

Monica

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Thought they were green cheeks! :) What a cute photo!

I'm glad you are on the right track to caring for them! Being flighted is great for an egg laying hen! Please keep us updated on how they progress! I hope the chick(s) makes it!
 

Mockinbirdiva

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A good video hand feeding green cheeks. Since eggs are laid every other day or two days chicks will hatch in the same progression. A clutch will have varying sizes of chicks. Hard to see until the later portion of the video, she has a large bowl with warm water ( as in the temp of the formula) and the container she has her formula mixed in sitting in the bowl to maintain temperature of the formula. A digital thermometer is best used and left in the formula so you can monitor the temperature. She expels the formula after feeding one chick, dips the tip of the syringe in the bowl with the water to rinse the tip and pulls up fresh formula from the cup for the next chick. Never save or reuse formula.... always make it fresh to avoid contamination and bacteria growth.


The older they get the more active feeding response with a group of babies. I used a laundry basket to hold the babies during feeding to keep the chaos of hungry babies more controllable. Shame she blocks the view so much in this video so you can see the rate of delivery of the formula. Note she gently holds the chicks head with her thumb and pointing finger to feed... it prevents a lot of mess and gets more formula in the chick with all that serious head bobbing going on for food. You will also see in the video the formula in a cup, inside a warm dish of water with a thermometer in the formula so she feeds at the correct temperature.

 

Mockinbirdiva

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Thanks @Zara for including this link in another thread. Boy...you can learn everything you need to know about eggs as well as some other important information. I just don't agree with the section on the salt, the silica gel packet or not cleaning the nest box until pulling the chicks. I do have to disagree with one other thing not in this link.. the crushing of egg shells mentioned earlier in this thread. If calcium needs to be added to the diet then supply them with calcium rich foods or use Calciboost liquid supplement.( google to see who sells it)

 

Fulmer

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That’s great thank you for all the information. From what I’m reading and have researched hand raising is a lot like bottle feeding puppies and kittens which is great because I have a lot of experience with neonates❤
 

Mockinbirdiva

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You're welcome. I've never raised young puppies or kittens so I can't compare young green cheek chicks to being the same in caring for neonates other than puppies and kittens nurse and birds do not. Proper temperatures and humidity in a brooder are essential in chick health and digestion of formula as well as temperature of formula is vital to proper digestion. Lower temps can slow the crop down ( as well as a cooler brooder will chill a chick and slow down digestion). It's very easy to aspirate a young chick which more times than not results in a painful death. You never want to over fill a crop so much that it causes the crop to stretch out. You will also need to purchase a gram scale to weigh the babies first thing in the morning before being fed to monitor their weight. It's important for the crop to completely empty once a day.... usually between 12:00 pm and 6:00 am depending on the age of the chicks being fed. You'll have to monitor the food in the crop left from previous feedings to make sure they are digesting the formula well. Feeding with a half full crop (or third full, quarter full)... putting new food on top of the old food can cause bacteria to grow which can cause a sour crop... the crop can fill with gas ( candida) and appear to look like a little balloon. With diligence, monitoring with the use of devices and your inspection of the chicks ( if pulled for hand feeding) you'll learn to recognize any potential problem and make sure they are growing well and healthy. Set a feeding routine and practice great hygiene in the brooder and all utensils used in feeding. I'd rather give too much information then not enough.



Copied and pasted from this link:

"All food must be prepared fresh for every feeding."
Syringes are probably the preferred feeding tool, but some still prefer a spoon with the sides bent up and inward. Accurate feeding volumes can be recorded with the syringe. Charting daily feedings is important. The natural feeding response of a baby bird is to rapidly bob the head in an up and down motion. This action can be stimulated with gentle finger pressure at the corners of the mouth. During this head bobbing, the trachea is closed and large amounts of food can be given relatively quickly. If the bird is not displaying a strong feeding response then do not attempt to feed, as there is an increased chance of aspiration of food into the trachea and lungs, leading to death. The best time to feed is when the crop is empty. When full, the crop, which is the sac that hangs over the front of the chest at the base of the neck, will be visibly distended.

How often and how much do I feed?
The amount and frequency of feeding depends on the age and growth rate of the bird, growth of the bird and the diet used. The frequency of feeding for young birds is greater than that of older birds. The following is a guideline. With newly hatched chicks, the yolk sac is the source of nutrients for the first 12 - 24 hours. Chicks less than one week old should be fed 6 - 10 times per day (every 2-3 hours). In the first week of life, some feeding during the night may be beneficial. Chicks who have not yet opened their eyes may take 5 - 6 feedings per day (every 3-4 hours). Once the eyes open, 3 - 5 feedings (every 5 hours) are necessary and as the feathers start to grow in, feed 2-3 times per day (every 6 hours). The crop should appear full when done. Feeding between 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. is not necessary. The best indication of a healthy, growing chick is a good, strong feeding response at every feeding, with the crop emptying between feedings and regular production of droppings (feces). Monitoring and recording weight gain (at the same time each day) on a gram scale provides an accurate record of growth.



Where do I keep the baby bird?
Precise temperature and humidity is essential for optimum growth of newly hatched birds. Relative humidity greater than 50% is required initially. Hatchlings (no feathers) should be maintained at 95° - 97°F (35° - 36°C). As the chick gets older, it has a greater tolerance for temperature fluctuations. Generally, the temperature can be lowered by one degree every 2 - 3 days as the feathering progresses. Chicks with new feathers (pinfeathers) should be fine at 75° - 85°F (24° - 30°C) depending on the development of the feathers. Fully feathered and weaned chicks can be maintained at room temperature. Always monitor your bird for signs of overheating or chilling. Wings extended or drooping and panting indicate overheating. Shivering and cuddling together indicate cold. Poor growth or poor digestion (delayed crop emptying) can suggest poor health (such as infections of the digestive tract), improperly mixed hand feeding formulas, improper temperature of formula or improper environmental temperature and humidity. Good quality special brooders are available that carefully regulate air circulation, temperature and humidity. Paper towel, diapers, hand towels or other soft, disposable products can line the bottom of the brooder and provide secure, clean, dry footing for the bird. This bottom liner must be changed frequently to keep the bird clean. If the bottom texture is too smooth, the chick's legs may splay out to the side leading to permanent deformity. You must also check that there is nothing for the bird to get its wings or legs stuck on that might cause injury or deformities.
 

JoJo&Loki

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Just wanted to say welcome to the Avenue and your birds are GORGEOUS! :loveshower:

Good luck with the chick(s), you’ve come to the right place!
 
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