Azuki and I can't sleep - help

[Kori]

Azuki laid her 7th egg today. Because I found her on the floor of her cage the last two mornings sitting as though she was nesting, I had decided to give her more time with her egg, and since removing the egg wasn't working, to try dummy eggs.
She laid the egg around 1pm, came out and hung out and went back in her cage around 3pm, broke the egg rolling it around at about 7pm. I distracted her and replaced the egg with two dummy ones. I'm not sure when it started exactly but from about 9pm onwards she is rolling and knocking the eggs about. Doing this, she has moved the liner and it's often rolling on the grate - and in my small apartment it is surprisingly noisy! It's now past midnight and on and off... mostly on... it continues.
I feel like I should let this play out - even if I lose sleep - and eventually she'll give up - but I am worried she is wearing herself out. It's not like I can take them out anyway, if I value my fingers, and removing them sounds distressing for her too.

Any ideas of what is going on? Is she ok to be just left to work things out herself?
Sorry for all the questions recently....

 

[Kori]

Can’t figure out how to edit from my phone but
- 20 min of silence! Think she has finally given up and/or asleep.
Poor baby girl. Confusing times…

 

[Shezbug]

Can’t figure out how to edit from my phone but
- 20 min of silence! Think she has finally given up and/or asleep.
Poor baby girl. Confusing times…

You only have a short period f time to edit your posts.

@Ripshod

 

[Kori]

You only have a short period f time to edit your posts.

@Ripshod

I see.

Well, I ended up only getting 4 hours of sleep. She started up again after I posted, somehow I slept from 1:30 to 5:30, when she restarted with vigor…
This can’t go on another night. I’m an 8 hours kind of girl. Plus, this can’t be good for her either?

 

[cChristine]

Oh my! What an adventure. My understanding is that (unfertilized) egg laying is more of a hormonal response to certain environmental stimuli. I have a male (at least as far I was told) jendaya conure approx 5 years old. I have noticed that certain “stimuli” result in hormonal behaviors, especially when given more than 12 hours “daylight” and with certain toys. Check out this link for some great general info about those stimuli:

The Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine is the only exclusive avian and exotic veterinary hospital in New York City.

The Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine is the only exclusive avian and exotic veterinary hospital in New York City.

avianandexoticvets.com

Additionally, I recommend you check out Bird Tricks on YouTube or their website. They have INVALUABLE training, feeding and all things birds information

Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[Kori]

Oh my! What an adventure. My understanding is that (unfertilized) egg laying is more of a hormonal response to certain environmental stimuli. I have a male (at least as far I was told) jendaya conure approx 5 years old. I have noticed that certain “stimuli” result in hormonal behaviors, especially when given more than 12 hours “daylight” and with certain toys. Check out this link for some great general info about those stimuli:

The Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine is the only exclusive avian and exotic veterinary hospital in New York City.

The Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine is the only exclusive avian and exotic veterinary hospital in New York City.

avianandexoticvets.com

Additionally, I recommend you check out Bird Tricks on YouTube or their website. They have INVALUABLE training, feeding and all things birds information

Keep us posted on your progress!

Thanks for that x
I checked out the link. I’ll have a look at Bird Tricks. They have a female budgie called Blueberry don’t they? Wonder how they keep her from getting hormonal…

I probably should add a note whenever I post that I’ve tried most if not all the suggestions.

I think the problem is me - I’m the “mate” and although I am not giving kisses or scritches , just being with me is the issue.

Anyway, need to decide about these eggs before tonight. I’m thinking rolling them around all night is not a good sign..

 

[cChristine]

Thanks for that x
I checked out the link. I’ll have a look at Bird Tricks. They have a female budgie called Blueberry don’t they? Wonder how they keep her from getting hormonal…

I probably should add a note whenever I post that I’ve tried most if not all the suggestions.

I think the problem is me - I’m the “mate” and although I am not giving kisses or scritches , just being with me is the issue.

Anyway, need to decide about these eggs before tonight. I’m thinking rolling them around all night is not a good sign..

Yes, all the context is helpful information!

They do have a female budgie and other female birds as well. I have noticed the smallest nuisances make the difference for my bird ( like even half and hour more of light and he is in hormone land!) I think Loki (my little punkin) thinks I am his mate half the time also- doing more training helps curb his behaviors in the king run.

For the immediate egg issue consider — this is NOT a long term solution — but what about putting a small box like a tissue box in the bottom of the cage with some paper and out the placeholder eggs in of course.
Growing up we had cockatiels that did actually end up breeding and that is what we used for nesting boxes. It keeps the eggs secure and the bird still and more rested.

Please note though, this could trigger more of the hormone behavior in the long run and you will have to be very patient and careful when switching gears to remove the box… it kept coming to mind so I thought I would share the idea!

Do you actively train with your bird?

 

[Kori]

Yes, all the context is helpful information!

They do have a female budgie and other female birds as well. I have noticed the smallest nuisances make the difference for my bird ( like even half and hour more of light and he is in hormone land!) I think Loki (my little punkin) thinks I am his mate half the time also- doing more training helps curb his behaviors in the king run.

For the immediate egg issue consider — this is NOT a long term solution — but what about putting a small box like a tissue box in the bottom of the cage with some paper and out the placeholder eggs in of course.
Growing up we had cockatiels that did actually end up breeding and that is what we used for nesting boxes. It keeps the eggs secure and the bird still and more rested.

Please note though, this could trigger more of the hormone behavior in the long run and you will have to be very patient and careful when switching gears to remove the box… it kept coming to mind so I thought I would share the idea!

Do you actively train with your bird?

Thanks for thinking this through with me Christine, really appreciate it x

Actually last night I tried folding up a piece of paper towel into a square and then rolled up the edges, hoping it would help, without it being too nestlike. But she just rolled them right out of there. I may have to try something more sturdy but like you say, giving her a nest could create more hormonal issues so I don't know what to do!!

Btw, this is what I've been doing so far:
- adjusted her diet. No mashes. No high calorie food like quinoa. A little less seed (She normally gets 1.5 tsp, just not filling it up all the way)
- no more belly kisses. Now, no more kisses at all. Trying to avoid shoulder time.
- Put to bed at 5pm in a room with blackout curtains. Uncovered around 9am. Apartment is unfortunately not completely silent for her.
- UVB lamp for 1-2 hours in the day. Apparently good for hormonal balance.
- Changed her toys around daily. Bought all new toys (she loves them. no fear)
- currently changing where I place her cage during the day. Apartment is small so, one day the dining table, next day on the side table etc.
- giving her calcium rich food like broccoli, egg etc

It's lunch time here and she is back in her cage so I can have my lunch (in peace lol) and she is just preening on her perch, not staying with the eggs. She did visit them briefly.
Her weight was 34-35g, down from 37g yesterday, but her original weight is 33-34, so we may have number 8 on the way.


Edit: re training. I have trained her to come when called. But I have been a bit lazy (preoccupied?) and haven't done anything much recently. I don't like feeding her too many treats outside the cage because I need her to be hungry for seed for her to go back! She would stay out with us 24/7 if she could.

 

[Shezbug]

I would not add anything nest like if you’re wanting to reduce egg laying.

 

[cChristine]

Thanks for thinking this through with me Christine, really appreciate it x

Actually last night I tried folding up a piece of paper towel into a square and then rolled up the edges, hoping it would help, without it being too nestlike. But she just rolled them right out of there. I may have to try something more sturdy but like you say, giving her a nest could create more hormonal issues so I don't know what to do!!

Btw, this is what I've been doing so far:
- adjusted her diet. No mashes. No high calorie food like quinoa. A little less seed (She normally gets 1.5 tsp, just not filling it up all the way)
- no more belly kisses. Now, no more kisses at all. Trying to avoid shoulder time.
- Put to bed at 5pm in a room with blackout curtains. Uncovered around 9am. Apartment is unfortunately not completely silent for her.
- UVB lamp for 1-2 hours in the day. Apparently good for hormonal balance.
- Changed her toys around daily. Bought all new toys (she loves them. no fear)
- currently changing where I place her cage during the day. Apartment is small so, one day the dining table, next day on the side table etc.
- giving her calcium rich food like broccoli, egg etc

It's lunch time here and she is back in her cage so I can have my lunch (in peace lol) and she is just preening on her perch, not staying with the eggs. She did visit them briefly.
Her weight was 34-35g, down from 37g yesterday, but her original weight is 33-34, so we may have number 8 on the way.


Edit: re training. I have trained her to come when called. But I have been a bit lazy (preoccupied?) and haven't done anything much recently. I don't like feeding her too many treats outside the cage because I need her to be hungry for seed for her to go back! She would stay out with us 24/7 if she could.

Happy to help if I can! I grew up with cockatiels and adored them. I knew I would want a bird in my life in the future and Loki is my “pet store rescue” more on that story another time lol
I love to learn and research and bird care is no different! I appreciate that you put your questions out here and that I found this website today! I am grateful to learn with you
You are definitely taking needed steps! Maybe consider a couple more little tweak

I cut out ALL seed in Loki’s diet. He only has fresh veges and fruits chop and he gets pellets (Bird tricks and Harrison’s primarily). Seed is ONLY used for trick/permission training. That was a really important switch for his hormonal behavior.

Playing soft soothing music at night may also help (both of you)! Loki really responds to music, so it definitely depends on the personality/preference of the bird.

Regular training is truly a MUST. And it doesn’t have to be everyday! Try for 2-3 days/a week for short 5 minute sessions at a time and see how you do. It is important to figure out their favorite treats for this. Also, save the highest most favorite is for “go to your room” and you will have greater success with getting her back into the cage for the end of training sessions!

 

[Kori]

I would not add anything nest like if you’re wanting to reduce egg laying.

Yeah... so hard to know what to do anymore...

Happy to help if I can! I grew up with cockatiels and adored them. I knew I would want a bird in my life in the future and Loki is my “pet store rescue” more on that story another time lol
I love to learn and research and bird care is no different! I appreciate that you put your questions out here and that I found this website today! I am grateful to learn with you
You are definitely taking needed steps! Maybe consider a couple more little tweak

I cut out ALL seed in Loki’s diet. He only has fresh veges and fruits chop and he gets pellets (Bird tricks and Harrison’s primarily). Seed is ONLY used for trick/permission training. That was a really important switch for his hormonal behavior.

Playing soft soothing music at night may also help (both of you)! Loki really responds to music, so it definitely depends on the personality/preference of the bird.

Regular training is truly a MUST. And it doesn’t have to be everyday! Try for 2-3 days/a week for short 5 minute sessions at a time and see how you do. It is important to figure out their favorite treats for this. Also, save the highest most favorite is for “go to your room” and you will have greater success with getting her back into the cage for the end of training sessions!

Ok! I'll try cutting out seed, I had thought about it but didn't know if it was too extreme. Combining this with training her to go inside seems a good idea. I mean it's kind of what I do now. I give her 1/2 < tsp at lunch to get her back inside and then 1 <tsp at around 3pm to get her to go home.
She settles well at night usually, but maybe some relaxing music / nature sounds would be nice at the moment.

I just still need to decide what to do with these dummy eggs. I'm in a chronic illness flare and I can't afford another bad night...

 

[AussieBird]

Ok! I'll try cutting out seed, I had thought about it but didn't know if it was too extreme. Combining this with training her to go inside seems a good idea. I mean it's kind of what I do now. I give her 1/2 < tsp at lunch to get her back inside and then 1 <tsp at around 3pm to get her to go home.

I wouldn't cut out her seed. Budgies do better with seed as a part of the diet, not just a treat. Mine get almost equal seed to pellets.

I wish I could help with the egg issues, but I have nothing to advise. I do wonder though if she'll stop soon as she has reached a normal-ish clutch size.

 

[Shezbug]

Yeah... so hard to know what to do anymore...



Ok! I'll try cutting out seed, I had thought about it but didn't know if it was too extreme. Combining this with training her to go inside seems a good idea. I mean it's kind of what I do now. I give her 1/2 < tsp at lunch to get her back inside and then 1 <tsp at around 3pm to get her to go home.
She settles well at night usually, but maybe some relaxing music / nature sounds would be nice at the moment.

I just still need to decide what to do with these dummy eggs. I'm in a chronic illness flare and I can't afford another bad night...

Follow the advice @Ripshod gives you.

And please do not cut out your budgies seed- they need it.

 

[Kori]

I wouldn't cut out her seed. Budgies do better with seed as a part of the diet, not just a treat. Mine get almost equal seed to pellets.

I wish I could help with the egg issues, but I have nothing to advise. I do wonder though if she'll stop soon as she has reached a normal-ish clutch size.

Follow the advice @Ripshod gives you.

And please do not cut out your budgies seed- they need it.

Ok. I was only thinking temporarily, during this hormonal period.
Do budgies ever lay more than 8? I have a feeling we will see another one.

 

[Sodapop&Co.]

Can you move her cage somewhere where her noise won't bother you? Or even play some white noise to help cover it? It's a little stressful thinking of our birds not getting enough rest, but she'll be fine while you figure out a solution and you need rest. Obviously, this can't be an impulse decision, but have you thought of getting her a budgie buddy?

 

[Kori]

Can you move her cage somewhere where her noise won't bother you? Or even play some white noise to help cover it? It's a little stressful thinking of our birds not getting enough rest, but she'll be fine while you figure out a solution and you need rest. Obviously, this can't be an impulse decision, but have you thought of getting her a budgie buddy?

We have one other room, that we use as a store room basically. My husband has some work stuff in there that I worried about the smell. Anyway, just in case the overall opinion is to keep the eggs longer, I just went and cleared out anything I thought might have a fragrance. I will double check with my husband when he comes home in case I missed anything. I think it will be ok?

I have some concerns about getting a friend for her. For one thing, I've never had more than one at a time. How would we ever survive a quarantine period in this small apartment? lol
Will it be too much for me health-wise? What if they don't get along? What if I think I'm getting a girl but it's a boy and they end up having *real* babies.....
My husband is not keen. I brought it up and he said in Japanese that "we'll be overrun with budgies", not sure if he just meant two in our small place or the possibility of babies lol.

 

[Shezbug]

Just because birds mate and lay eggs does not mean you have to let them have babies. Many people have M/F pairs of birds who have never become parents. The eggs are simply removed before any incubation starts.

 

[Kori]

Just because birds mate and lay eggs does not mean you have to let them have babies. Many people have M/F pairs of birds who have never become parents. The eggs are simply removed before any incubation starts.

I guess my underlying concern is, by introducing a friend will I improve things for both of us or add to things? It's really impossible to say....

 

[Ripshod]

All the below are just off the top of a caffeine starved morning head.
How large is her cage? (a photo would be good) Too small she could be seeing the whole thing as a nest. Change it all around, make it unfamiliar to her. Do this every week.
How dark is dark? How quiet is quiet?
Reducing contact is good and distraction is a great tool. As mentioned previously training is a great aid, but having plenty to do outside of the cage will take her mind off these things.
UV-B light is not effective. Better to have a bright led light over the cage on a timer, on for the whole daytime period.
Bedrooms are busy at night. Just turning over in bed can disturb a bird's natural sleep cycle. Snoring is scary.
Consider a female friend for her. Just having another bird in the cage will make it an unsuitable as a "nest" and no fertile eggs. However if the cage is too small that may cause problems between any two birds.
Take her to an avian vet, there may be an underlying health problem triggering this. (last resort) Mention lupron while you're there.

 

[Fergus Mom]

Hope it works out - I have dummy eggs at the ready, but no eggs yet, thankfully. Maybe @Zara will weigh in here also. Great advice from all above.