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Apple Cider Vinegar

Hankmacaw

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Diane ACV can be beneficial when treating for a fungal infection. It is not the "miracle medicine of the world", but an acidic atmosphere is not good for fungus and will also help the medication work properly. My birds would never accept vinegar (and I detest the smell of vinegar), so my vet said to use Listerine. Five or 10 drops, of either, in an 8oz. drinking facility is fine. Either will accomplish the same thing.

AGY is much like Asper - it is difficult to treat, takes a long-long time and it may reoccur. Don't give up.
 

Vera

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My avian vet told me this about vinegar:

Acidification of water is best until you have an acid value (pH) between 3 and 4. it is best not to given continuesly, because it inhibits calcium absorption in the intestine. Chloramide can be uses continuously in the water and disinfected at least as good.


she says that acidification of the water is good against bacterial grow in the waterbowl, zo when i'm at work and can't change the water during the day i add ACV, this is 3 days a week a.t.m.

i give 1 tbsp in 1 cup (200ml) water.

haven't looked into chloramine yet.... this also works against bacterial grow but doesn't make the water acid.
 

BigMacWonder

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Can I give a bit of Oligo honey with apple cider vineger?
 

Lady Jane

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skip the honey. Not needed. If you use the mix of 2 tsp per quart there is not much sour taste for the bird and it is effective at this ratio.
 

Irishj9

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For exactly the scary reasons alluded to above, I have my plastic blue tea tray.

Scrubbed out with hot soapy water every night. Refilled with clean water, a drop or two of F-10, and re-installed high up centrally in the aviary in the morning.

That's the water supply for 8 caiques and 24 +/- lovebirds.

The babies in the bedroom do use water bowls, and I watch them like hawks for cleanliness.

When the wind blows, as it often does in Cape Town, I get agressive on germs and possible fungus.

Wait for dark. Throw the netted aviary windows and door open. Use bucketfuls of agressive bleach mixture on the floor and lower walls. Birdies, all in their nestboxes miss most of this event.

Prevention much better than cure

JP
 
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keikoasmom

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Lots of good info. I have only used ACV for cleaning of cages, since Keikoa's many infections
(sinus) and I use GSE in soaking the washed bowls, but not during the day, they don't like the taste.

I can't smell it, but apparently they can. I might try a bit ov ACV.
 

Kiawe'

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Hi, if anyone can Help. My Yellow N. was just diagnosed with AGY. And I live in Panama and we have only One Avian vet here, who is wonderful, but not well versed on the Uses of ACV. Does anyone know how much ACV to use in water and for how long? I'm also using Harrisons recovery or Neonate formulas for food at the moment, with a tiny amount of natural creamy peanut butter, ( no other ingredients) as my parrot doesn't like the taste of the formulas. Im concerned as these formulas have added sugar..... any ideas of what else I could feed him? Also have been thinking to use tiny amount of fresh raw garlic (crushed or juice) and Turmeric, ginger and aloe. Any help as to how to use The ACV or anything else would be MUCH Appreciated! Thanks Sheila and Kiawe'
 

iamwhoiam

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@Kiawe' Welcome to AA. Sorry that your Yellow Nape is ill and hope she/she will get better soon. I generally use 16 drops of Bragg's apple cider vinegar in one liter of water. I keep the apple cider vinegar/water mixture in the refrigerator. Don't know if you can get Bragg's in Panama but it is organic and has what is known as the "mother". Also almond butter would be better then peanut butter if you can find that. Recommend unsalted, natural almond butter.
Bragg Live Foods, Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar, Bragg Liquid Aminos,Systemic Enzymes, Bragg Live Organic Food Products, Patricia Bragg, Paul Bragg, Bragg Organic Olive Oil, Bragg Salad Dressings, Bragg Seasonings, Bragg Health Products
 

Kiawe'

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Thank you! Yes I have Bragg's ACV, ( only One I use) and I first got raw organic all natural Almond butter, but switched to the nat. Peanut butter, as it's made without the inner shell. But as soon as I think he can have the almond butter again i will give it to him. He vomited the other day after having almond butter and a little white bread mixed in with Harrisons recovery formula, to get him to eat it. Now I know....no bread. That's probably what did it. So i thought, if he goes 3 days without vomiting, I will go back to the almond butter, and Harrisons recovery or Neonate formulas......unless someone had an idea of what else to feed him. The other day he was at 413 grams(OMG) and today is 422. (Still OMG) Trying hard.... To heal my very dear friend for over 28 years
Thanks....
Sheila and Kiawe' ( Key-ah-vee)
 

Hankmacaw

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AGY is a serious illness and must be treated with real medications not assistive/supportive things.

You need to get right on treatment. Ask your vet if he can prescribe Amphotericin B, Fluconozole, Nystatin or Lactobaccillus for your bird. Amphotericin B is the best medication for AGY, but it is very, very hard on your bird's kidneys and liver, is expensive and sometimes hard to find oral suspensions.. I would recommend the Fluconozole at 100mg/kg twice a day. AGY is notoriously hard to cure and your bird will need to be treated for at least 4 weeks (six weeks is probably better).

Vinegar is ok for keeping an acidic environment in your bird's gut, but it won't do a thing for killing the AGY. Garlic is very, very mildly antibiotic, but not enough to kill AGY. Tumeric - I don't have any idea what it is supposed to do, but all herbal medications are weak substitutes for our modern medications.

Please don't spend a bunch of time on holistic medications your bird needs real medications now.
 

Hankmacaw

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here is a pretty good article on AGY.
Megbacteria | Megabac in birds | Avian Gastric Yeast


Be very careful of the raw peanut/almond butters. They have not been pasteurized and Aspergillosis is well know to exist in peanuts and fungus can grow easily in either unpasteurized peanut or almond butter.
 
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Kiawe'

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i should have explained....my vet thinks side effects of Amp. B are too harsh and contributes other birds demises to its use after a couple days of use....and he doesn't want to use it, and I'm in Panama and the oral suspension might be difficult to get. he also thinks fluconazole doesn't work. So I'm seeing about anything else I can do. That's why im here asking. I have not ruled out using Amp. B
 

Kiawe'

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The peanut butter I'm using is from roasted peanuts. It's the almond butter that's raw. Very good point though. Thanks
 

Kiawe'

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He is also taking "fauna flora" from Harrisons. Is that the best one? Or any ideas for other probiotics for Avians?

My vet doesn't want to use Amp B because of side effects.
 

Macawnutz

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i should have explained....my vet thinks side effects of Amp. B are too harsh and contributes other birds demises to its use after a couple days of use....and he doesn't want to use it, and I'm in Panama and the oral suspension might be difficult to get. he also thinks fluconazole doesn't work. So I'm seeing about anything else I can do. That's why im here asking. I have not ruled out using Amp. B

I used amp b, it's awful but so is dying from AGY. :( If voraconazole will work that had little side effects for my bird. Not sure if voraconazole will treat AGY, not much will.

AMP B is still the leading drug. Best to make your decision quickly as the sicker he gets the harder time he will have with the AMP B. :(
 

Kiawe'

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Yes.... I agree. I haven't ruled out Amp B.

But it can be deadly too
It's VERY hard to know what to do
 

Hankmacaw

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Here is a paragraph from the Merck manual:

"Treatment and Control

The goals of treatment are to reduce the number of organisms and improve the general health and immunocompetence of the bird. Amphotericin (100 mg/kg, PO, bid for 30 days) has had the highest treatment success rate, but failures are common, especially with a shorter duration of treatment. Acidification of the proventriculus (apple cider vinegar, vitamin C) has been reported to create an environment less conducive to proliferation of Macrorhabdus. Voriconazole has been successful (anecdotal) at 10 mg/kg, PO, bid."

Macawnutz and I have both used Voraconazole on our parrots for long periods of time, treating Aspergillosis. Neither of us noticed any side effects at all. My vet will only allow AMP B for nebulizing - it is dangerous. Call your vet about the Voraconazole (he may have never heard of it) it is being widely used here in the US and in Australia now for fungus infections.
 

Kiawe'

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Ok....just spoke with Doc about Voriconazole. And thats going to be considered highly for my parrots protocol. My vet says he has used it before on Raptors with good success.
Thanks so Very much
 

Lady Jane

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Now Chipper has been over the rainbow a few years I know that gastric fungus is almost always fatal in a budgie no matter what the treatment is. The breeder of my budgie boys takes precautions before and just after hatching his budgies. He gives the parents and chicks ACV in feedings along with a pro biotic. Mickey and Murphy were on a pro biotic for 30 days after I got them to help with the stress on GI tract from transition to a new home.

Avian vet told me the Voriconazole is not for little birds. Too harsh in system
 
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