Any one have a larger Ring neck? Is mine overweight?

[Summzz]

Hi there!
I have posted something about this a bit ago, but I have a bit more questions, so I figured I would ask them again!
Long story short , Mooshie, is currently 1 (turned 1 on May 7th). When we got him, he was a bit chunky for a baby. When he went to the vet, she just figured it was a bit of baby weight / the fact that he was clipped and wasn't able to fly around. We sadly had to clip him as he had to go through an airport and feared him getting away. She figured once he got older and regrew his flight feathers, he would drop down to normal weight. At the time, he would go between 150 grams to 155 grams.

He gets the same diet as my 14-year-old Sun Conure, Mango. Mango has always had the opposite problem; he is a smaller male and seems to have a hard time keeping on weight. He seems healthy and normal otherwise but is always on the small end of normal for a male. Their current diet is fresh chop for breakfast, variety for lunch (mostly more vegetables but sometimes fruit or other treats) and a mix of Harrison's and Roudybush pellets. I have always just given them some pellets in their bowls and let them eat what they want. I had always been advised that they won't overeat, and it's better for them to have access to their normal food, except that it is taken away at night when they are sleeping. They do get nuts as treats for training, but it is such a small amount. I have asked multiple vets diet questions for Mango before, and have always said what I was doing was healthy/correct for them.

As Mooshie was growing up, he was slowly climbing in weight. It was making me super nervous, but I was reassured by the vet to just wait till he was flying. At the time, the most he was was about 158-ish. I was so happy when he started getting his flight feathers and was going crazy flying around. Over the course of a month or so of them coming in and him being more active, he dropped to about 150. I was happy with that and was sure he would get a bit closer to normal. They are out of their cages for most of the day and tend to fly around the place and play on their activity tree and toys. He loves to fly around the house like crazy ( I call it zoomies) but he will go as fast as he can to one side of the house and back. He will do one, come back and then go right back out. Usually, after the second time, he will have heavier breathing while landing. He recovers really fast ( like 5 seconds to get back to normal) and will go back out and do it again. He does this a lot during the day and never seems to be tired after, other than the few seconds of heavy breathing. No amount of activity seemed to help with his weight / getting more into shape. And at this point he was 168 grams. I did end up feeling his keel bone, and I thought it felt normal, but 100% sure.

Since then, I have talked to a few vets. The first one was far away from us, so I just talked over the phone with them, but they did suggest that getting close to the 170 - 180 gram mark was waaayyy to high for him but could not tell 100% without seeing him in person (of course). They did suggest I could cut back the food just a little bit to see if that helped. I did that for a little bit, and while at first he started going down, it eventually stopped, and he was sitting at 162 grams. Plus, he always seemed so hungry, and I felt horrible. He is a big foodie bird and loves all snacks and loves to eat. I ended up going to the other vet down the road from me for his second check-up and visit. During this visit, I was surprised to hear that he thought he was either normal or slightly underweight when feeling his keel bone, regardless of what the scale said. He seemed to have weak muscle development and had suggested I let him get closer to the 180 mark to see if that helped him get stronger, build muscles and have less heavy breathing while flying.

I have followed what the vet said, but still unsure what is right. While he is happier eating more, I really can't tell if the breathing is getting better. After the first few weeks, I thought maybe his breathing seemed like it wasn't as heavy while he was flying really fast, and maybe he recovered faster, but I'm honestly not really sure. It definitely hasn't gone away completely like I was hoping. He seems super happy, playful, has normal eating and poop habits, but is currently at 180 grams. And when it comes to his keel bone, I think it feels normal, definitely more padding than before, but I don't think it's too much. It was suggested we could do blood work if nothing helped, but I don't want to get that done if it is just him needing more time.

TLDR:
Has anyone ever had an EXTRA LARGE IR? Could it be normal to have heavy breathing after flying around like a speeding bullet (I would say like a sprint in a person). Do I need to worry about him being 180 grams?
Thanks!
*Photo for cutness*

 

[Mizzely]

Is the "heavier" based only on the grams in relation to other IRNs, or on body condition? It seems you are getting mixed messages.

Grams is really good for identifying issues if the number goes up or down, but not as great for determining normal healthy weight. I wouldn't use that number to compare to other birds.

Some birds will overeat; while most won't, obviously this is a general statement and needs to take into account the actual bird.

As for the breathing, how long has he been flying? That can make a big difference in stamina!

 

[Finchbreed]

What Mizzeley says.
Just as humans vary in body weight without being fat or thin - so do our birds.
It all depends on genetics - maybe Mooshie had two big parents and Mango had two small parents.
It's as per the pic - if the keel is showing or easily felt (worry) if the fat is bulging like them people you see with rolls (then worry)
And in the mean time I will worry about my little rolls

 

[Summzz]

Is the "heavier" based only on the grams in relation to other IRNs, or on body condition? It seems you are getting mixed messages.

Grams is really good for identifying issues if the number goes up or down, but not as great for determining normal healthy weight. I wouldn't use that number to compare to other birds.

Some birds will overeat; while most won't, obviously this is a general statement and needs to take into account the actual bird.

As for the breathing, how long has he been flying? That can make a big difference in stamina!

View attachment 463892

Thank you for the reply! This makes me feel better. The first vet always told me that his weight was too high due to the fact that his grams were higher, not in body condition. While the second vet was able to feel his keel bone and said he was on the normal end, but probably could do with a bit more muscle.
He has been flying consistently since June (since all his flight feathers came in then). When he does fly around the place normally ( not like a speeding bullet) to get from one spot to another, he doesn't have any problems. It's only when he decides his tail is on fire and flies around like a maniac that we see the issue come up. Could it be he needs a bit longer to build up the stamina, or maybe the heavy breathing is normal since he is going soooo fast? I know Mango has never had that problem, but he is a bit lazy and likes to walk most places, lol. I think I got so worried with the heavy breathing in combination with how much he loves to eat. I've never had weight problems/ overeating problems with my babies, so he is really different for me.
Thanks again!

What Mizzeley says.
Just as humans vary in body weight without being fat or thin - so do our birds.
It all depends on genetics - maybe Mooshie had two big parents and Mango had two small parents.
It's as per the pic - if the keel is showing or easily felt (worry) if the fat is bulging like them people you see with rolls (then worry)
And in the mean time I will worry about my little rolls

Nice to hear a similar response! Makes me feel a bit better again. We always wondered with Mooshie, as even a baby, he was really big lol. Mango has always been on the lower side for weight, but funny enough, now that he and Mooshie get along, he has stayed in the middle or higher side as they like to eat together. Love the rolls comment, definitely no rolls on either bird (humans maybe a little lol).
Thanks again!

 

[Sweet Louise]

The chart by Mizzely is a great guide.
I have a larger than normal CAG. She is heavier than the average CAG as a result. She is a BIG bird! The avian vet says she is healthy and at a good weight for her size. I don't worry about the grams of weight. She fits in as normal on the guide Mizzely posted. She does breath hard after flying-but she goes in streaks about flying. There will be weeks with lots of flying, then weeks with little flying. When she starts up flying again, she breathes heavier for a week or so. She gets a ton of out of cage time so it is her choice. I do keep a variety of toys for her to help her stay active. Long way of saying worry less about the number of grams and look more to the chart. Make sure he has toys to keep him active. If he is bigger than average, he will weigh more. And both your birds are adorable!

I do wish I could post a pic of Louise next to her brother-it really shows how large she is. She would attack her brother, they are not out together because she is indeed a bully. A lovely bird, but a bully.

 

[Summzz]

The chart by Mizzely is a great guide.
I have a larger than normal CAG. She is heavier than the average CAG as a result. She is a BIG bird! The avian vet says she is healthy and at a good weight for her size. I don't worry about the grams of weight. She fits in as normal on the guide Mizzely posted. She does breath hard after flying-but she goes in streaks about flying. There will be weeks with lots of flying, then weeks with little flying. When she starts up flying again, she breathes heavier for a week or so. She gets a ton of out of cage time so it is her choice. I do keep a variety of toys for her to help her stay active. Long way of saying worry less about the number of grams and look more to the chart. Make sure he has toys to keep him active. If he is bigger than average, he will weigh more. And both your birds are adorable!

I do wish I could post a pic of Louise next to her brother-it really shows how large she is. She would attack her brother, they are not out together because she is indeed a bully. A lovely bird, but a bully.

Happy to hear it seems like a more normal thing then! I was a bit worried before it might be something more serious with his lungs or heart. He goes through so many toys, and they pretty much own our house, so he gets a ton of activity time. I hope he just builds some more muscle soon, and it stops. However, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the heavy breathing is because he is exerting himself excessively when he flies around and goes so fast (kind of like a sprint for people). I will keep up with his keel bone do make sure he stays healthy!
Thanks!

 

[Jayced!!]

As others have said here, I wouldn't worry! As for whether your bird is overweight or not, we determine that by checking the keel bone. If the keel bone check is good, you're good! Generally we just use grams to keep track of the weight trends in our birds as a significant difference in daily/weekly weights will indicate illness! "Normal" gram weights are good to keep in mind, though don't account for exceptionally large or small outliers. I think a good example of this is my two GCCs. One of mine, Olivia, is around 100g and the other, Brie, is closer to 60g. I'm sure you can tell who's who! Both have great keels, though both are genetically outliers in regards to size!