Aggression in New (to me) Pionus

[TheBirds]

I had an opportunity to bring home a 9 y/o Dusky Pionus yesterday. Our initial visit went well, he stepped up nicely for his former owner and both she and eventually I were able to give him some nuts by hand. We picked him up last night, so today was his first full day and it began well. I was able to retrieve him from inside his cage, with a nice calm step-up (not at all forced). He spent some time out of his cage on a tree stand, and I was able to put him back in after he'd spent some time exploring it. The rest of the day I would chat to him as I passed by, or pass small pieces of vegetable or fruit to him, either through the cage bars or by opening the cage door and slowly reaching it towards him. He was taking things very gently and I thought we were off to a great start.

Later this evening, perhaps about 7pm, I opened his cage door to hand him a grape. He came up to the door and snatched it aggressively out of my hand with a shriek, dropped it, and made as though he was going to bite me (I'd withdrawn my hand by this time and quickly closed the cage door). He went down to the bottom of the cage to eat the grape, meanwhile I was left utterly shocked.

I tried opening the cage door again about an hour later, thinking perhaps he was upset he hadn't spent enough time out of his cage, and he approached the open door in an aggressive manner. I quickly decided this was a terrible idea (he's flighted and I had visions of him just landing on me and sinking his beak in) and carefully closed the door as he approached, he again shrieked repeatedly and lunged at my hand as I fumbled the latch.

I realize it's only his first day but it concerns me that this seemingly gentle, calm bird is even capable of showing this kind of aggression. No, what concerns me the most is I don't know what triggered it. And how do I overcome this sudden fear of putting my hands anywhere near him if I don't understand what sets him off?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated because I feel like I've made (another) terrible mistake bringing home a rehome bird who is not as advertised

 

[Finchbreed]

Can you/did you ask the former owner about his routine?
Perhaps there are times when he is used to being interacted with and times when he is used to being left alone.
While you will be changing this to suit your situation - gradual change is more effective than sudden change.

 

[T. gillii]

Honestly? I have an incredibly sweet pionus. And this is typical. 2 of 2 have both shown cage "aggression" to an extent. You can't let yourself be threatened. Just approach calmly and wait for them to do the same. Mine is especially annoyed if he has spent more time in his cage than he prefers. We do "step up" on a ladder.

 

[T. gillii]

Also- my boy is fully flighted. He never goes out of his way to bite me. But he definitely lunges!

 

[TheBirds]

Honestly? I have an incredibly sweet pionus. And this is typical. 2 of 2 have both shown cage "aggression" to an extent. You can't let yourself be threatened. Just approach calmly and wait for them to do the same. Mine is especially annoyed if he has spent more time in his cage than he prefers. We do "step up" on a ladder.

Thank you for this. I don't have "big parrot" experience yet - although am doing my absolute best with my "littles" through target training (and, y'know, not forcing them to do anything they clearly don't want to do) - so being lunged at is really intimidating!

I covered him up last night after the second lunge, wondering if he was either overstimulated or overtired after his first day. Today he's been moved to a quieter hallway which is most similar to the quiet room he was kept in his previous home. He's been taking things very gently from my hands through the cage bars this morning, although not everything I've tried is tempting enough to lure him over.

@T. gillii - once yours is out of the cage, do you still require the use of the ladder for step-ups?

 

[sunnysmom]

 

[April]

@tka

 

[T. gillii]

Thank you for this. I don't have "big parrot" experience yet - although am doing my absolute best with my "littles" through target training (and, y'know, not forcing them to do anything they clearly don't want to do) - so being lunged at is really intimidating!

I covered him up last night after the second lunge, wondering if he was either overstimulated or overtired after his first day. Today he's been moved to a quieter hallway which is most similar to the quiet room he was kept in his previous home. He's been taking things very gently from my hands through the cage bars this morning, although not everything I've tried is tempting enough to lure him over.

@T. gillii - once yours is out of the cage, do you still require the use of the ladder for step-ups?

It depends on where he is, and his body language. If I need to move him quickly, I use the ladder. He is usually pretty clear when he wants to be picked up. From the ladder, I can have him step onto my hand easily. Also I totally feel you with the lack of big bird experience!

 

[Zilga]

One of mine is a peach about anyone being around her area, and one can be iffy about his cage. It could just be his thing, but also see sunnysmom's post; everything is new and potentially scary, so try not to freak out because it's going to be a learning curve.

 

[TheBirds]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the support. Yesterday went better; I kept my hands out of his cage and tried even harder to read his "fluffy feather" body language, erring on the side of caution. Treats were fed with the use of toast tongs just in case (at first through the bars, and then by opening the cage door), and he even did some target training for me! But only on the second attempt, because the first time he saw the chopstick he went in the opposite direction

Later on I let him get himself out of his cage by leaving the door open, and he seemed happy to climb on top and sit calmly .. no flying attacks, lol. I'll use a perch for step-ups for now until we feel like we know each other a little better and have built up some level of trust. My hope is to regularly incorporate step-ups into my target training efforts, and he'll be so focused on following the target and earning a treat that biting my hand won't even enter into his brain!

Anyway, it feels like there's a plan now, which is reassuring. All is not lost just yet!

 

[alshgs]

So I don't have any experience with pionus birds, but I do have experienced with macaws and most recently, Cody - our 23 year old foster macaw. We didn't take her out of her cage but instead opened her travel cage and let her in her big cage (she climbed in by herself). We've had her almost a month now and it took awhile to get where we are and she will still bite me if she doesn't get her way (but doesn't draw blood.) The first day my husband opened her cage door and let her come out on her own. We did try to get her off of her cage with a perch (but she is fearful of that method, so she instantly went to me to step up and has been doing so nicely ever since.) HOWEVER, when she is on top of her cage, she refuses to step up for me. She will sometimes climb down and come look for me but won't step up from the top of her cage or off of her door. There are also 2 perches in her cage that she will not step up for me off of. I am still learning her body language and we are still learning each other, but it does take time. While routines are important, Cody doesn't have a steady routine at our house. Sometimes she will stay out all night and sleep on top of her cage and sometimes she will go inside and sleep in her cage. I know routines are important, but it works for us currently. Somedays she's happy to spend a lot of time with me and other days she stays on her cage all day. I haven't target trained her because she listens pretty well for the most part and since she is in her 20's, she's set in her ways and I just learn and adapt with her. I will also add that we have learned that she does NOT like men (in the slightest) She has chosen me as her person and since she trusts me, I do everything in my power to not break that trust.

My point is - it does take time for a birds personality to come out, especially when they are rehomed. Sometimes it doesn't though, as is the case with Cody because she stepped up for me on the 2nd day. But sometimes it takes longer. Just build that trust and if target training works for you and him, then keep working on that! It doesn't work with Cody and I because she really doesn't have a favorite treat that I have discovered yet (like I said, we are both still learning). Just keep working on it and give it time!

 

[TheBirds]

My point is - it does take time for a birds personality to come out, especially when they are rehomed. Sometimes it doesn't though, as is the case with Cody because she stepped up for me on the 2nd day. But sometimes it takes longer. Just build that trust and if target training works for you and him, then keep working on that! It doesn't work with Cody and I because she really doesn't have a favorite treat that I have discovered yet (like I said, we are both still learning). Just keep working on it and give it time!

Welp, I'm trying hard (maybe too hard!) to build that trust; he's quickly worked out that I'm the treat-giver He's also begun this habit of screeching like a smoke detector with a low battery when nobody is around.. both good (he values our presence) and bad (annoying as heck).

I've got a whole artillery of treats on hand and we've landed on a few winners already .. sunflower seeds, and walnut pieces. He'll step-up willingly for both of those! The target training is helping too, I hope it's helping him realize he has a "voice" and an ability to make decisions about what he does and doesn't want to do. But you're right, I need to temper my expectations. We'll see if things continue on this more positive trajectory

 

[Dartman]

Keep working with him, sounds like thew little your safe and good things happen with you bell will go off. If he's doing the strut leave him be till he calms down or bites will happen. It's a long term process unless you get lucky and he just loves and trusts you right away. If his head is getting fluffy and he's giving you the look be careful till you figure out what is a happy fluff and what is not. Lurch was a used parrot with a lot of bad baggage and he took years to finally decide I was truly a friend and didn't need to be bitten, Dobby was always a good boy from the moment he got here because of the great job Momazon did socializing him. He will almost never bite and chooses to back away unless you keep pushing it, he loves everybody he meets and other birds too.

 

[TheBirds]

I'm still working out what's a happy fluff vs. a danger fluff -- but he hasn't threatened to lunge or bite since that second day. He's really good about doing a very deliberate, exaggerated "step up", so I'm slow about offering my hand and I can tell pretty quickly if he's going to do it or not before I even really get within striking distance. That helps.

I've also been able to start deciphering the words he's saying:

*kiss kiss kiss* I love you
Hiiiiiiii
Good boiiiiii
Pretty grrrrl



He's not the greatest flyer at the moment - I often know he's tried because I suddenly hear the little pitter patter of toenails on the floor - although I'd love to change that - and have been trying to coax him to me from the java tree stand. It seemed a bit ambitious BUT today he did it, and landed on my arm - with the promise of a walnut!

 

[TheBirds]

Lurch was a used parrot with a lot of bad baggage and he took years to finally decide I was truly a friend and didn't need to be bitten

This kind of history is so tragic for any bird, but especially the Pi's who - generally speaking - wouldn't hurt a fly. People suck

 

[T. gillii]

I like to encourage Melvin to fly by always rewarding him with a sliver of pecan! Works like a charm. My guy lunges daily, he just has an attitude. I don't take it personally. He is usually begging to be pet a few moments later. It doesn't help that he is a boy going through hormonal season, lol.

 

[Zilga]

I'm still working out what's a happy fluff vs. a danger fluff -- but he hasn't threatened to lunge or bite since that second day. He's really good about doing a very deliberate, exaggerated "step up", so I'm slow about offering my hand and I can tell pretty quickly if he's going to do it or not before I even really get within striking distance. That helps.

I've also been able to start deciphering the words he's saying:

*kiss kiss kiss* I love you
Hiiiiiiii
Good boiiiiii
Pretty grrrrl



He's not the greatest flyer at the moment - I often know he's tried because I suddenly hear the little pitter patter of toenails on the floor - although I'd love to change that - and have been trying to coax him to me from the java tree stand. It seemed a bit ambitious BUT today he did it, and landed on my arm - with the promise of a walnut!

That all sounds fantastic! Our boy Fig flies like he was shizz out of a potato gun with just as much finesse and steering.

 

[Dartman]

Nerd had bad flight feathers and mostly flew like a brick unless he let the bad flight grow in, then he could sorta fly where he wanted. His usual attempts were FLAP...FLAP...FLAP...THUD!
Lurch eventually grew back his clipped wings and was a very good flyer at the end. Dobby also flies like a green fighter jet and loves to buzz super close to us when he's zooming about but it's mostly to his favorite spots and my sister Sandy, his chosen one. Nerd walked everywhere and had really big thighs.

 

[TheBirds]

Well I'm sitting here tonight re-reading this entire thread because he did it again! This time he nailed my thumb. The circumstances were the same, though .. I opened his cage door to hand him a grape (as it wouldn't fit through the bars) and he climbed down and went for blood! So he's either cage aggressive or angry about not spending as much time out of his cage as he'd like (today); I expect I'll find out which at some point in the future but now I know what to NOT do.

I later caught him eating said grape off the grate (floor) which I confiscated immediately, lol.

Arghhh, parrots.

 

[Dartman]

All my Pionus parrots were cage aggressive and it just depends on what mood they're in when you decide to open the door. Nerd trusted me completely so I could reach in and mess with him and he put up with it. I tried not to abuse the privilege. Lurch was very aggressive about his home and would just try to get me. when I upgraded him to a new much bigger cage he had more room to move away from me and make half hearted strikes but being new to him it kinda reset his attitude for a while, plus he knew he wouldn't get his food and water if he tried to bite us.
Dobby will usually allow us to reach in if he knows it's time to come out and he just doesn't really like to really BITE, he'll pop you if he's really mad but usually no full on try to draw blood thing.
Might want to see if all the triggered biting ceases when he's out on neutral ground instead around his house, it is their home as far as they are concerned so they'll defend it.