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African Gray feeding questions

Shannan

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I have some feeding questions specifically regarding senior African Grays. My Walter is 38 years old. He is currently on a mostly pellet diet having recently further reduced his seeds treats at the recommendation of my avian vet (which I have only recently found). Walter is being treated for some gout,( I think) and arthritis. I think she knows what she is doing and she is good with Walter but doesn’t explain much. Gave us some meds but didn’t tell me what it does or how long to stay on the meds ( maloxicam(sp?) and gabapentin (sp). We follow up soon and I will write down my questions. She plans on doing more tests next time as she didn’t want him too stressed. I’m trying to improve his diet since he seems to be improving the more I improve his diet but I don’t have much guidance except reduce seeds and feed pellets. I do supplement his pellets with some fruit and veggies but I think he needs more. I’m going to try getting him on some chop and have ordered some food from Avian Organics to get me started. I also need to mention that my life is very busy taking care of elderly family members and as such I need to implement this new plan in a way that is efficient for me. My questions are. What species specific things do I need to take into account? How much of each food should I feed? How often should he eat? Please help an old parrot owner out. I feel so bad because I did not keep up with the latest research on parrots and my poor beloved Walter is not in as good a health as he should be. He is 38 and I really want him to stay around for a long time.
 

Toy

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My CAG is 22. I also have a U2 (age 22) & a B&G Macaw (age 1.5 years). I feed pellets & a little seed mix. I use Bountiful Harvest seed mix which has at least 75 different ingredients. I add in shell pumpkin seeds, dried fruits, etc to it as well. They all get a few nuts daily. Jengo (CAG) loves pistachios (raw in shell). My U2 will only eat almonds .The macaw likes all nuts. Morning is when I feed wet foods like mixed veggies, chop, cooked potatoes (white or sweet), birdy bread or scrambled eggs. Fruit should be limited, but I often give as a treat mid-afternoon or in the evening. A 1 inch piece of banana, a bite/chunk of cantaloupe or watermelon a slice of apple/peeled. Grapes are high iron, so limit to one grape. A couple blueberries or a strawberry. NO avocado, caffiene, chocolate, onions or garlic. They are toxic to parrots.

The amount can vary depending on the bird & food fed. My birds tend to eat twice a day & nibble in between feedings. Pellets are always in cage, so I fill the dish at least 2/3 of the way in the evening. Less if they are prone to tossing it, add more in the morning. Wet foods/veggies I'd guess 1/3 cup. I buy frozen mixed veggies & microwave enough for 3 days. I often add extra corn & peas to the mix. I also buy a oriental or stir fry blend & add some of that too. Potatoes are a chunk/human bite size or mashed. Scrambled eggs I give about a 1.5 x 1.5 inch piece. Do not use oil to cook eggs. I don't give all these foods daily. They either get veggies, scrambled eggs or potatoes.

You can start buy upping the veggies. They can be fresh or cooked. Only cook until al dente (still firm, except for potatoes that should be fork tender or soft enough to mash). Each bird is different in how it likes it's food. Some like firm, while others like soft/mashed. You'll need to experiment to see what Walter prefers.

I feed wet foods in a dish on the cage foor grate. Makes for quick removal of the dish later.

Any of the above can be made & kept refrigerated for 3 days. Warm veggie portions to room temp in hot water & then drain. Scrambled eggs I just let set out a little bit. None of these things should take much time, except for making chop, which is time consuming. If you make a large enough batch you can freeze it in portions for quick use later.
 

Shannan

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Thank you so much for your suggestions. The amounts really help me out.
 

Darklotus555

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I am probably going to get a lot of backlash from this. I am lucky enough to have met an aviculturist. She is an amazing woman with a lot of phd's and has been working with, breeding, and studying aviculture for many, many years. She herself has failing health due to MS. Yet, she gives me help as much as possible. She has not switched gears to only breed endangered species, and work on a project she has been trying to finish for years.
A couple of important things she has shared with me about diet in birds, is birds cannot metabolize sugar. Fruit has fructose which is a sugar. Fruit can cause inflammation, behavioral issues, and cancer in birds. Birds need good fats. In CAGs red palm oil is essential to their diet. In the wild, CAGs eat red palm as a staple of their diet.
I make huge batches of chop, we have a lot of birds, and all ingredients are organic, non-gmo, non-GE. Each bird gets about a table spoon of chop each morning. My birds pace, and rush to the cage door waiting to get their chop each day.
The other thing I will add here is water. Most people say, "I use purified drinking water", or we use "filtered water". My birds only get distilled water, in water bottles. Some minerals can still be found in purified and filtered water. Birds get all the minerals they need from pellets, which I feed zupreem naturals, about a teaspoon per bird.
Birds need calcium. Some people give cuttle bones thinking this is calcium. Others think kale, kale actually blocks the calcium from being absorbed by birds. I use powdered egg shell, which is the only form of absorbable calcium for birds. I sprinkle it over their chop 3x a week unless laying...then its every day. (I use eggs in my chop, Eggland's Best, organic or free range, and powder the shells)
I sprout for my birds, and I give them "Soar", which is an all natural supplement.
Since I started this diet, my birds have changed dramatically. They are happy, very healthy, temperaments have greatly improved. My birds are more active, breeding very well (the ones that I do breed), healthy chicks, healthy skin and feathers, and no hormonal issues.
I am NOT saying I am right, nor am I saying anyone else is wrong. But this is my experience, and for my birds, (we have 2 CAGs, one over 50 years old), it works wonders.
Thank you for reading. Just trying to help.
 

Shannan

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Thank you so much for your advice. I actually own chickens who are free range on my farm which I have never used pesticides on (over 20 years). Walter really likes eggs and I can easily add some crushed egg shell to his diet. How often can he have eggs? I think that the eggs may help him safely add weight. Where do you find palm oil and how much should they have? That is interesting about the fruit and inflammation. I am looking into the idea of sprouting but since I can only bite off one thing at a time I am starting with chop. (Of course Walter has been eating off my plate for most of his life but I don't chop it, or add enough variety or mix it with other things...
 

Snowghost

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I have a 24 year old CAG. Paco has had a poor diet all of his life and I work daily to improve it. He's afraid of a most foods. He like his frozen veggies, and I warm them up. Broccoli, peas and carrots. He has just branched out to squash and green beans. I wait a little longer to make sure he is hungry, that helps, I also smash up sweet potatoes an sneak in the sting beans. He won't go near chop or leafy veggies. I too am crunched for time in the morning, I have a full time job. So just yesterday I mix up a bowl of his veggies and put them in Tupperware nuke the next morning. I make a small batch. I wish Paco would eat sprouts, but again he is afraid of them. He gained weight when I first got him and his feathers came back in but after working a night job he plucked again. Sigh... it never ends.
 

Snowghost

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I am probably going to get a lot of backlash from this. I am lucky enough to have met an aviculturist. She is an amazing woman with a lot of phd's and has been working with, breeding, and studying aviculture for many, many years. She herself has failing health due to MS. Yet, she gives me help as much as possible. She has not switched gears to only breed endangered species, and work on a project she has been trying to finish for years.
A couple of important things she has shared with me about diet in birds, is birds cannot metabolize sugar. Fruit has fructose which is a sugar. Fruit can cause inflammation, behavioral issues, and cancer in birds. Birds need good fats. In CAGs red palm oil is essential to their diet. In the wild, CAGs eat red palm as a staple of their diet.
I make huge batches of chop, we have a lot of birds, and all ingredients are organic, non-gmo, non-GE. Each bird gets about a table spoon of chop each morning. My birds pace, and rush to the cage door waiting to get their chop each day.
The other thing I will add here is water. Most people say, "I use purified drinking water", or we use "filtered water". My birds only get distilled water, in water bottles. Some minerals can still be found in purified and filtered water. Birds get all the minerals they need from pellets, which I feed zupreem naturals, about a teaspoon per bird.
Birds need calcium. Some people give cuttle bones thinking this is calcium. Others think kale, kale actually blocks the calcium from being absorbed by birds. I use powdered egg shell, which is the only form of absorbable calcium for birds. I sprinkle it over their chop 3x a week unless laying...then its every day. (I use eggs in my chop, Eggland's Best, organic or free range, and powder the shells)
I sprout for my birds, and I give them "Soar", which is an all natural supplement.
Since I started this diet, my birds have changed dramatically. They are happy, very healthy, temperaments have greatly improved. My birds are more active, breeding very well (the ones that I do breed), healthy chicks, healthy skin and feathers, and no hormonal issues.
I am NOT saying I am right, nor am I saying anyone else is wrong. But this is my experience, and for my birds, (we have 2 CAGs, one over 50 years old), it works wonders.
Thank you for reading. Just trying to help.
I like your suggestions, any advice for a parrot that is afraid of chop and sprouts? Where do I get red palm oil and how do I feed it to him?
 

Shannan

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Walter is afraid of new things in his cage but I think it is mostly due to his limited eyesight. When he was younger he was very adventurous. Right now he seems to be willing to try different foods when I hand feed it to him but won't try it if I put it in a bowl in his cage. Like you I have a full time job (teacher) and I help take care of my aunt who has Alzheimers. Add that to the farm and two teenagers and I definitely sleep well at night. Walter is my only parrot now but I have had others in the past. I would love to hear more about Paco's story. It sounds like you are amazing for him even if he fights you doing what's best for him the whole way. I was thinking of trying some pureed baby food to add diversity to Walter's diet. Have you tried it with Paco and did it work? I haven't tried chop yet but I am going to try your method of adding vegetables by nuking small batches. With only one bird, I don't need a whole lot.
 

Darklotus555

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They are most hungry in the morning. So maybe pretend you are eating it,...show him its food, and offer him some. You can dip a nut, (Grayson loves raw almonds) or seed in it, and offer it to him. Sprinkle seeds over the chop? Honestly, no bird immediately eats chop and sprouts. It takes a few days of this diet (chop, then pellets)(or any diet change) and only about a teaspoon of pellets, before they get hungry enough to really give it a try. I know you will feel you are starving him, or being mean, but he will not starve, he will eat once he realizes its "this or nothing". My birds get chop as soon as they start to wean. Any adult new bird I get, immediately goes on this diet. If he has not eaten all day, give him a little millet spray, or a treat. I promise he will start eating it.
You van offer it to him, give him 15 mns, put it in the frig, and try again in 30 mns....have patience.
Organic red palm oil can be bought on amazon, and not very expensive. All of my birds eat it. I have a very basic chop recipe if you would like it. Again, I make chop for about 50 birds, so it gets expensive for me. But one batch lasts me about 12-14 days. I use zip lock freezer bags and freeze it, taking a bag out at night for the following morning. I ration it out on paper towel squares, except for the large birds, and they eat it so fast!!!! I remove the squares and any leftovers after an hour. Then give them pellets.
 

Snowghost

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Walter is afraid of new things in his cage but I think it is mostly due to his limited eyesight. When he was younger he was very adventurous. Right now he seems to be willing to try different foods when I hand feed it to him but won't try it if I put it in a bowl in his cage. Like you I have a full time job (teacher) and I help take care of my aunt who has Alzheimers. Add that to the farm and two teenagers and I definitely sleep well at night. Walter is my only parrot now but I have had others in the past. I would love to hear more about Paco's story. It sounds like you are amazing for him even if he fights you doing what's best for him the whole way. I was thinking of trying some pureed baby food to add diversity to Walter's diet. Have you tried it with Paco and did it work? I haven't tried chop yet but I am going to try your method of adding vegetables by nuking small batches. With only one bird, I don't need a whole lot.
I have not tried pureed baby food. Paco will only eat his "goodies, yum yum" if I hand feed him. He eats seed and Lafebers Nutri Berries that have pellets in them. I do spoil him and give him hard boiled eggs on the weekends with no yolk. I'm trying to encourage him to eat out of a bowl. Poor thing had a water bottle in his cage, (one for a hamster) he was so dirty he smelled when I got him, is cage was filthy, he still freaks when I clean his cage, this guy has been left in a basement neglected and his last owner could have cared less. All in all, he has come a long way.
 
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Darklotus555

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The cag on my shoulder in the avitar was cage bound. On an all seed diet and peanuts!!!. She never moved off her food bowl. She was, and still is, afraid of new things, but much better now.
I switched her diet, I worked with her, at her pace. I showed her how to play with toys. She now hijacks me to get on my shoulder, she is never in her cage except to eat, and I bring her upstairs to my room to hangout with me. She plays with toys now. She has learned new tricks too.
I used to be so afraid of getting bit by that big beak, I just talked to her. Finally I decided I was not afraid of her and started trying new things with her. She gives me kisses, on MY LIPS! and I trust her not to bite me even though I have seen her rip a hole in her owners arm thru a sweatshirt.
CAGs feel your emotions. They know what you feel. She knows I love her, and I respect her, and I am not afraid of her, and she shows me the same.
I feel like I am preaching here, lol. But they are just like children. Love them, entertain them, teach them, give them healthy nutrition. They all have different personalities, but have the same basic needs, and are our responsibility. It comes back to you in wonderful ways.
 

Snowghost

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The cag on my shoulder in the avitar was cage bound. On an all seed diet and peanuts!!!. She never moved off her food bowl. She was, and still is, afraid of new things, but much better now.
I switched her diet, I worked with her, at her pace. I showed her how to play with toys. She now hijacks me to get on my shoulder, she is never in her cage except to eat, and I bring her upstairs to my room to hangout with me. She plays with toys now. She has learned new tricks too.
I used to be so afraid of getting bit by that big beak, I just talked to her. Finally I decided I was not afraid of her and started trying new things with her. She gives me kisses, on MY LIPS! and I trust her not to bite me even though I have seen her rip a hole in her owners arm thru a sweatshirt.
CAGs feel your emotions. They know what you feel. She knows I love her, and I respect her, and I am not afraid of her, and she shows me the same.
I feel like I am preaching here, lol. But they are just like children. Love them, entertain them, teach them, give them healthy nutrition. They all have different personalities, but have the same basic needs, and are our responsibility. It comes back to you in wonderful ways.
You are not preaching. Paco and I were doing well the first year, his feathers were coming in, and he gained weight. I had to take a job at night and that is when it went to hell. He picks is pin feathers on the left wing that has been bald now for over year. I am back to a regular job, increased his variety of food, spend more time with him and a nice shower on Sat and Sun. He has 3 feathers coming in on the left wing and 2 tail feathers.

I have noticed the sheaths are very long on his new feathers coming in. What would be causing this?
 

Darklotus555

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It should be fine. The tail feathers are some of their longest feathers so only makes sense. Im glad you're back on a regular schedule and he is doing better.
 

Shannan

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Thanks for all the great assistance. I love hearing the stories of these birds. My Dad bought Walter for me 38 years ago. He has never bitten me hard and has only really bitten one person. ( and he deserved it). Walter was very adventurous in his youth and we did a lot growing up together but as he’s gotten older he seems less able/ willing to try new things on his own. He will come out of his cage but due to his limited sight and weak foot he feels vulnerable so I limit that to specific times with me. (We have cats too). He loves being in the center of the house where he can hear everything and he gets lots of attention. Since I took the grate off his floor and started giving him foot toys instead of just hanging toys he has become a lot more playful. As far as the sheaths could it be a result of less overpreening? (asking, as I don't know the answer).
 

Snowghost

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It should be fine. The tail feathers are some of their longest feathers so only makes sense. Im glad you're back on a regular schedule and he is doing better.
Its not the tail feathers I"m worried about its the wing feathers, they have long sheaths on them. He's doing better but I did another post, he stepped up and I was wearing a flannel shirt, he slipped and tumbled to the floor. He lost the one tail feather that was coming in!

I want to try the red palm oil, what kind of food do you put it on? He loves fruit but sugar isn't good for them? I get frustrated sometimes with all of the info on CAG's
 

Darklotus555

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Again, I get my help from my "guru", who has been working in the avian field most of her life. At one point, she had over 400 macaw pairs n a huge ranch in California. She knows more about birds than I can EVER hope to know. I trust her more than any avian vet.
Since I am now starting to breed some of my birds, she has been a God send. I actually have 2 new sun conure babies, and the third to hatch tomorrow. My clutches have been larger, and my parents never healthier.
I have a basic chop recipe, butch change ingredients every time I make a new batch. It is very important (and yes, expensive) for all ingredients to be organic, non-gmo, and non-GE.
Since I feed everything from Gouldian finch, to CAG, I try to appeal to all species.
My basic recipe (and may forget some ingredients) contains baby spincach, cilantro, parsley, sweet peppers, almonds, unsweetened coconut, hard boiled egg, chia seed, ground flax seed, cauliflower, broccoli, walnuts, carrot*, sweet potato*, quinoa, sugar snap peas, and arugula. *cook slightly
I mix in about 1/2 to 1 jar of red palm oil.
Again, this is my basic recipe. Most people use a lot of rice, oats, and pasta. These are carbs, and contrary to popular belief, these ingredients make birds fat. Fats in birds are essential and do not cause fat birds or fatty liver. Consider the Atkins diet where you can eat fats, but few carbs and lose weight. Birds have a different metabolism and need healthy fats.
Birds have crops. They are pretty small. You need to get as many nutrients in that small crop as possible. Unless you sprout seeds, seeds are carbs. They cause fat birds and fatty liver especially sun flower seeds.
I sprout for my birds, I give them wheat grass that i grow as well. I do feed millet as a treat every other day, and every day if birds are feeding chicks or nesting.
My CAG Grayson, was housed with a sun conure before I got him a few months ago. The sun plucked Grayson bald....just his head. Bald CAGs are very funny looking. But Grayson has regrown feathers on his head now, and wont be long before they are all in.
Most likely your Walter is not preening as much. Do you spray (mist) him everyday? Misting encourages preening. There is also a gland at the base of the tail which is a preening gland. Something could be wrong with this gland. Honestly, there could be a lot of things causing his problems. However, getting him on a good diet, distilled water, and lots of love can cure or at least help.
Have you tried giving him Potent Brew? Potent Brew is a probiotic. It helps with MANY issues...one being the immune system. I highly recommend trying it as well. You should see a big change in Walter very quickly.
 

Snowghost

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This diet sounds great for parrot that is not afraid of change. So what do you do with a scared CAG? I have managed to improve his diet greatly. But what you recommend isn't going to fly with Paco.
 

Shannan

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This diet sounds great for parrot that is not afraid of change. So what do you do with a scared CAG? I have managed to improve his diet greatly. But what you recommend isn't going to fly with Paco.
I think that you are doing your best with Paco and the fact that you continue to try to help Paco through his fears makes my heart warm. Keep trying but don’t beat your self up if Paco needs his mental health more than the “perfect “ diet. I have seen many rescue animals thrive on less desirable food because they are mentally secure and loved.
 

Snowghost

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I think that you are doing your best with Paco and the fact that you continue to try to help Paco through his fears makes my heart warm. Keep trying but don’t beat your self up if Paco needs his mental health more than the “perfect “ diet. I have seen many rescue animals thrive on less desirable food because they are mentally secure and loved.
Oh thank you. I have worked hard for the last two years to give him a loving, clean home with good food. When I picked him up from the woman that gave me he was in terrible shape. It brings tears to my eyes thinking of it. He smelled, his cage was filthy, she had a water bottle hanging on the outside of his cage (one for hamsters) the water was brown. I had to throw one perch away, I coudn't get the poo off of it. They put plastic shields around his cage to keep the newspaper from falling on the ground, there was at least 2 feet of soiled paper in his cage. I broke down his cage and it took me 3 days to clean it. I switched his water bowl one can't toss, LOL, and put in stainless steel food bowls, that was an adventure all in it's own. He bit me several times, very hard. He would slam his beak on top of my head when I cleaned his cage. I taught him to "scootch over" when I reach in to get his water bowl. He has come a long way, thank you for reminding me! He has made up his own whistle for me when I tell him I have to go to work. I didn't teach him this, he did it all on his own. I love him to pieces and I hope he is happy.
 

Shannan

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Wow you really did save him. With Walter, outside of him likely being wild caught, he has just been stuck with me. When I first got him very little was really known about nutrition, flight, care etc. I updated his cage with every boyfriend trying to impress me, took him everywhere, and fed him my own way. Which was really a lot of what I ate. Sometimes I just fed him seeds, (I didn’t know any better). Sometimes he ate pellets, ( when they finally came out with decent pellets) sometimes I was lucky that we both had some cheep Mac and cheese. Now that he is older I am worried that I didn’t do enough or that I let him have way too much seed because he is a seed junkie and I wanted to make him happy. Last year I nearly lost him to a hematoma which caused him to lose a good amount of blood. Now I am trying to get him healthy again.
 
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