Advice on getting over fear

[KieranKD]

I don't really know where my fear came from, I had budgies as a kid who bite me who'd I'd still interact with everyday, but at some point I've become terrified of birds. I'm more okay now with small birds (re: lorikeet & budgie sized) then I used to be after an attempted rescuing of an injured dove (they died overnight before I could bring them to the rescue unfortunately, I think they were hit by a car) and further one on one experience as an adult. I'm still very wary of small birds, but I'm absolutely TERRIFIED of medium to large parrots. I mean won't get within a foot of them and flee if they come towards me scared. ​

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Now you see, I've recently moved in with my uncle. He has this Ruby Macaw called Remy; I love Remy, I desperately want to interact with Remy, but I am absolutely terrified of this bird. It's been long decided that I would take Remy when my uncle dies or becomes incapable "because you're so good with animals" (I love animals, keep exotics. but. not. parrots.) and I've made small progress. Feeding him his favorite treats by hand because he'll bite me if I feed him anything else. Sometimes he bites me with his favorite treats too and it's honestly so scary to put my hand anywhere near his beak. I bought some sticks and a clicker to do touch-training to maybe get over my fear and make him like me or whatever but the problem is he does wings up (a learned angry gesture) everytime he hears or sees the clicker and it makes me too scared to give him the nut which frustrates him. I'm not sure if he's actually angry or he just still associates the clicker with learning wings up, but either way it's terrifying. ​

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He's a very angry boy. Very cage protective. I see him bite his dad and his grandma all the time, sweet one minute and angry the next. I don't know how to not be scared of being bitten, because I know if I interact with him I will be. I've been bitten before but only once bad, and I'm just? So scared. but I want to not be scared and I'm not very sure how to go about not being scared. ​

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[Yoshi&Raphi]

This is a hard one, I’ll give this thread a bump so other people who can help you better will see it.

 

[Khizz]

I'm sorry to hear this. Don't feel bad, it's unfortunate but from the sound of it, not with any ill-feelings. It sounds like something you need to work on yourself as opposed to Remy. Remy can change certain habits but in the end, he will always be able to bite and be a macaw.

There is a lot of advice for people who are scared of dogs, I'm sure you could apply some of the same tactics here. I used to work in a children's psychology department where fear of dogs was common. Usually they brought in a particularly calm, tolerant dog for the children to meet. If at all possible, could you maybe reach out to somebody who has a calm, easy-going larger parrot? Remy sounds great, but I think he may not have the ideal laid-back personality to help get over your fear.

If you are in the states, @Mizzely may be able to advise you in regards to places with calmer parrots.

 

[Khizz]

That's what I was looking for. It's called exposure therapy: Ask the doctor: How does someone overcome fear of dogs? - Harvard Health

EDIT: Sorry, I think that link requires a subscription. Here is a different article: How to overcome a fear of dogs: Evidence-based therapy for cynophobia - The Cynophobia Clinic

 

[tka]

Parrots can sense when people are uncomfortable, uneasy and scared. As a flock animal, they are exquisitely attuned to the rest of the flock - so if the people around them are nervous and scared, the parrot is going to think "oh heck, there's something to be scared of and I might be in danger" and be more nervous and highly strung as a result. A nervous parrot who thinks they're in danger is more likely to bite first and ask questions later. Remy and you are probably feeding off each other's tension and making things worse - you're scared, he senses this and gets worried and tense himself, he's more likely to be unpredictable as a result which makes you more scared of him, and so on.

I would suggest looking into working with a therapist who specialises in fears and phobias. They will be able to guide you through exposure therapy, and be able to support you when things get scary and hard. They will probably start you on being around smaller, calmer parrots and you will gradually work your way up to working with Remy. You may also suggest to your family that working with a parrot behaviourist on Remy's cage territoriality would make him easier to be around.

 

[Monica]

What about some training through the cage bars? Hands off interaction that has the potential to be enjoyable for both of you?

 

[Clueless]

Thanks for posting this thread.

With Secret, I transport only by a T perch. The bird tore hunks out of my hand when she first moved in. I make my living by typing. Obviously I still have fear living in me.

 

[macawpower58]

A lot of us with big bad birds, have problems just like you.
Tell yourself it's 'respect', not fear.

The best way to deal with fear of bites, is to stop the bites.
So go out of your way to find ways of being around him that won't get you bitten.
Biting is a self-perpetuating action. Bites, beget more bites.
No bites, slowly extinguishes the behavior (or at least lessens it greatly).

Offer treats from a wooden spoon, Keep your hands and fingers away from that beak, wear long sleeves, drape something over your are/hand, anything that makes you feel protected.

Learn Remy's triggers. If you see dilating eyes, fluffed feathers, jump back and sing! Anything to get his mind of intimidation and threats.
Change his drama with yours. Find what he likes, gets excited and playful about.
When mine threatens me, I scrunch down, and whisper. He's sure something's going on, inches closer and starts to listen instead of acting out.
Now biting's not on his mind. Change the reactions from Remy, from threatening, to interested in your actions.
It takes some creative thinking, and not caring if you look the fool.

I do have a large macaw that can and will bite. We've been a work in progress for years.
No bites for me in the last several years. Threats, yes. But the bites I used to get have slowly died out.

Chaos will now come and sit on my knee while I watch TV.
Huge step for us. You should have seen what I put up with for years.

It will get better if you're patient and persistent in trying.
P.S. You may never have a bird that likes petting/snuggling.
Chaos does not allow it with me anymore.
You will make a relationship though, that is perfect for the two of you.

 

[JLcribber]

The way to get over your fear of parrots is exposure and time. You need to get to know this bird. Become familiar with this birds mannerisms and body language. Once you do know this bird there will be no surprises. You know what to expect so there is nothing to fear. For now just do this at arms length and just avoid the bite by not putting your flesh in target range of the break.

As far as actually handling this bird you can use this “tool”. Give this a read.

Pictures - The T stick.

If you have a large aggressive parrot (Amazon, Macaw, Cockatoo) such as a rescue/rehome you know fair well how dangerous that creature can be. A happy healthy confident hormonal large parrot is another formidable foe. Handling them becomes a tricky ordeal because they are physically dangerous...

forums.avianavenue.com

This is my take on how you can start to communicate with this bird and gain some trust/respect.

Connecting and Communicating with your Highly Intelligent Parrot.

Tika and Amanda (my mentors) asked me to write this. This is what I’ve learned and this is what I believe. We struggle to communicate with our animals. Some people can seem to get the most out of their pets and others think they can talk to them. Can we talk to our birds and can they talk to...

forums.avianavenue.com

 

[Fuzzy]

So many great responses already. I'd just like to add that if the sight or sound of the clicker is a problem to Remy or to you, don't use it. A clicker is just a bridge/marker to say, "Yes, you did great, a treat is on its way!" You can just as easily use the word "Good!" instead. It is the reinforcer (the treat in this case) that is the most important part of training. As Monica suggested, work with him inside the cage until you are both more confident that he won't snatch the treat or bite. The bars will protect you. Also get him to reach up to get the treat - it is harder to stretch and bite at the same time.

Think of the scenario from his point of view - he wants the treat you are offering. You are nervous holding it for him. Maybe it moves about when he reaches for it. Maybe the only way to get it is to quickly snatch it before it moves away again or is dropped. So work first behind bars and get him to stretch for it. That's what I did with my very aggressive Panama Amazon, Chico. When he was taking treats nicely from behind bars, then I tried offering them through the open door. This took months to achieve. Same with skritching his head feathers. Through the bars first for increasingly longer times, then through the open door.

Parrots don't usually just bite out of the blue. There is always a reason. Usually there will be plenty of body language to warn you beforehand. If you ignore the body language, that's when you are likely to get bitten. If that body language is constantly ignored, then the parrot won't bother giving it any longer. That's when it becomes dangerous - when they seemingly bite out of the blue.

Try just hanging out with Remy too. There is no need to touch him before you and he feel comfortable about it. You could just sit by him and read aloud to him. Watch his body language and position your chair no closer than is comfortable for him... always aim to keep his body language relaxed around you.

 

[KieranKD]

Thank you all for taking the time out of your day to talk to me. I really do appreciate all of the advice. When I do feed him I always make him reach for it haha, because I know if he's reaching he probably won't bite me and is just after the treat. I can't wear gloves of cover my hand because that scares him (doing this actually resulted in the one bad bite I had), usually when I'm too scared to actually hand him a treat I just put it in a dish. I've tried to feed him treats by holding a little tubberware but that went very bad so I'll have to try a wooden spoon.​

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I think he likes me more than he used to. He used to ignore me but since I've been feeding him treats he's started coming to interact with me, he has a log perch that he likes to climbs onto to be picked up or interact with people and he goes there when he sees me now. I'm ok with this because I can stand a comfortable distance away. "Wings up" just scares the absolute snot out of me because he's learned to do that when he's pissed off, so I just get too scared to treat him but I don't think he'd do it if I didn't use the clicker.​

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He's only five so hopefully I'll have many years to coeherce him into liking me and me into not being scared. Thank y'all.​

 

[Fuzzy]

The more you give him treats, the more he will like you because he is pairing the yummy treat with you. YOU = something wonderful! So that is absolutely the way to go to gain his confidence.... and as you say "he likes me more than he used to."

 

[Hankmacaw]

I just want to remind you that a macaw has never killed a person. Yes, their bites can cause damage and pain, but a wound will heal and the pain will go away. I have had two Green wing macaws and they are champion biters. Like Becky's Chaos, but after I got smart and my birds got comfortable - no more bites. You have gotten a lot of good advice here, but Becky's "avoid the bite - they are self perpetuating and using a "T" stick were the two most valuable pieces of advice.

 

[KieranKD]

I tried feeding him with the spoon for touch-training today and I think that's the perfect solution, give or take. Now that I've actually given him the nut I believe he just associates the clicker with learning wings up, because he was still very excited to get the nut when if he's angry he'll just throw it. He didn't like the spoon at first and tried to throw it too, but he decided he wanted the treat more than he wanted to be angry at the spoon which is good. I'm still worried he'll react negatively to the spoon but it's a good solution between wanting to feel like my hands are protected and him not liking hands being covered.​

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I hope I can do this, I think I can do this? I hope that in a couple of months he won't associate the clicker with wings up (he stopped doing it halfway through, which I think is good), and I'll be brave enough to hand-feed him treats. I'm OK with hand feeding him big things outside of training but he's just too intimidating for me to do that in training as long as he's associating the clicker with wings up. I know y'all said I didn't have to use that, but like, I genuinely think I can disassociate that behaviour the more I train him and the spoon has fixed me being too scared to reward him.​

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I know that a bite won't kill me. But it's hard to not be afraid even though I know it won't kill me. I've always jumped when I feed my snakes, I know it won't kill me if they bite me but it's just a primal fear reaction of not wanting to get bitten by something. I was scared of my sister's budgies biting me. I hope like everyone said just taking it slow, building a relationship and having exposure to birds will help. If I'm not afraid to pick up an angry, hissing six foot snake I don't want to be afraid of a lil beak. Even if I have seen that beak crush big nuts like paper. :')​

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But yeah, long rant short. Thank y'all. I'll hang around here, I really do hope I can get over my fear overtime. Maybe even by this time next year I'll be brave enough to hold him.​

 

[macawpower58]

Good for you!
If he uses the spoon, make him love it. Make it his best buddy. Stick some peanut butter, a tiny slice of chedder, yummy bananas.
You get the idea.
Once the spoon means wonderful things, you can start to incorporate it into teaching targeting.
Have fun, earning that trust will give you a high unlike any other.

 

[Nikomania]

I agree what the others have said. My miligold is a bit quirky and temperamental one at that. I approach him in 'real time' meaning that I am constantly observing his queues and accommodating them. Once you learn their queues, the scenarios within which you can be bit lessen considerably.

When I, for example, absolutely must put him back into his cage and know that he's sending me a 'possible biting' queue, I have actually (don't laugh!) slid a slender hard plastic vacuum attachment inside something long sleeved, creating an invisible perch/barrier to my arm. If he bites he'll then hit the plastic piece, subsequently giving me a surprised look before stepping onto my protected arm.

If you are afraid of inviting him to 'step up' for fear of bites, and if you have something straight and hard like a pvc or piece vacuum attachment, you might try hiding that inside your sleeve. That way you won't have to be concerned with his bite making contact with your skin! It's definitely worth a try.

 

[Toy]

Lets face it parrots bite. It's a defense trait. Most aren't looking to eat you or remove your finger. They just want to nip you to let you know you are in their space & to back off. They can also sense your fear. So the more you show fear the more defensive he will get. When I got my B&G macaw, at 2 years of age, she had been abused. The owners could not handle her & she lunged at everyone. She did not step up & acked non-stop. She'd nip every chance she got. It took me 6 weeks to get her to calm down & trust me. I can now take a hold of her beak, give it a shake & even stick my fingers in her beak touching her tongue without getting bit. I can wipe her messy beak off, tell her to lift her feet to get washed, etc.. Does she still nip? Yes, but it's just a little pinch, not a bite. If I'm eating something she can't have, & won't give her any, she'll nip me trying to make me give her some. She'll nip if she gets excited. This is what they do in the wild to each other.

His wings up could just be him getting excited. It's not necessarily a sign he is angry. I think you are reading him wrong. Every move they make, every sound they make has a meaning. Sit & watch him & learn. Take into consideration how he moves. To a bird a wing wave is not your hand, it's your elbow stuck out to your side, with your hand on your waist. A few normal sounds macaws make are: ACK sound usually means they are scared. A morning scream is just a way of them welcoming the morning. Lunging usually means you are too close back off, you are scaring me. Night time beak grinding means they are comfortable.

The best suggestions I have are:
Try to lower your fear. You need to be the Alpha. Right now he is the Alpha.
Get up higher than the bird, which shows him you are the dominate/Alpha one.
Talk to him a lot & act silly. They love silly. Dance around, sing, laugh, bob up & down, etc.
Place your hand out flat & then lower it slowly while telling him wings down. I do this when I'm carrying my birds & they start to flap.
Sit close to his cage or play stand & eat something he can have & likes. If he acts interested offer him some of what you are having, but tell him to take it nice. If he grabs pull it away & try again. Parrots love to share meals. Watch to see if he is interested. If so offer him a treat as long as he takes it nice.
Explain why you are approaching him, what you are going to do, what you what from him & why. They are super smart. This helps to let them know you are not a threat.
Great him every morning & say goodnight when he goes to bed. Talk to him before you leave the house, tell him you'll be back, etc..

Take your time & work slowly. Give him time to adjust to you & trust you.

 

[macawpower58]

Alpha? lmao Not with a macaw IMO. It's mutual respect. Not 'I'm the boss'.

I've found (at least with my bird) any dominance on my part ups my birds aggression.
Not what I want.

 

[Nikomania]

Personally I haven't bought into the alpha/dominant argument: the belief that having your bird above you creates a dominance scenario.

 

[JLcribber]

Try to lower your fear. You need to be the Alpha. Right now he is the Alpha.
Get up higher than the bird, which shows him you are the dominate/Alpha one.

This is a myth and old school thinking. Enlighten yourself

http://naturalencounters.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Understanding_Parrot_Behavior_Naturally-Steve_Martin.pdf