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Advice on dog breeds

taxidermynerd

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I'm not sure if your in the US, but some breeds like Rotts, Akita, Pitbull, Chows, etc... will cancel your home insurance. :(
I had GSDs and had to check with each company to see if they were on the 'forbidden' breed list.
Some allowed them, others didn't.
That is insane! :(
And some pet stores might not allow you to bring in your dog, some vets may not see you, some groomers will deny you, some dog parks won't allow you, if you have a "aggressive breed". Which is BS, in my opinion.
 

Maxsmom

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Thanks so much for the willingness to provide guidance. I came back after a day to find so much advice! The generosity of those on the forum to take the time to advise me is so appreciated.

I do plan on a lot of training and separation techniques for a dog as I have with my pionus parrots.

I am so scared of potentially harming my babies that after reading this thread I wonder if I am asking for the impossible in a dog. I will research some of the herding dogs more and will keep considering.

Thank you!!
 

fluffypoptarts

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IMO, I think with any dog it is best to keep them religiously separated from the birds and train them that the birdy room is off-limits (but keep the door closed at all times and take other precautions).
 

fashionfobie

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. I will research some of the herding dogs more and will keep considering.
Try looking at guardian breeds. They have a similar look to some of the herding breeds, but are calmer and less prone to prey drive.
 

NightOwls

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As others have mentioned, any breed of dog can have a prey drive - or no prey drive - and cause harm to another critter. Some breeds (terriers, hounds, retrievers) might have a greater chance of not being a good fit.

The best way to prevent harm is proper management.
- Make sure the dog is familiar with the birds. If you have not had dogs before, get a trainer to help you introduce and desensitize. A dog is more likely to be reactive (aggressively or playfully) with something (eg bird) new to the dog.
- Make sure dog gets training. Especially with leave it.
- Make sure birds and dog are not loose together in the same room.

If you have not had dogs before, I would recommend getting a small or medium size dog.

Properly conditioned, most dogs can handle a few miles a day.
 

Destiny

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That is insane! :(
It is not that crazy when you consider dog bite statistics and homeowner liability. Large dogs can do a lot of damage when they bite. And some breeds are more inclined to bite people, because they have been bred for aggressive tasks, like guarding or blood sports.

Home owners insurance companies assess risk and potentially aggressive dogs are a big liability for the insurer. Not all insurance companies black-list by breed, but many will want to know how big your dog is and if it has a bite history. They may let you take out a home owner policy, but not provide coverage for damage done by your dog. If you want coverage for dog-related injuries, you might need to pay extra or get a separate policy to cover the dog.

The list of breeds that are most frequently banned by insurance companies are:
  • Pit bull
  • Rottweiler
  • Chow chow
  • Presa Canario
  • Akita
  • Doberman Pinscher
  • Wolf hybrids
  • Mastiff
  • German shepherd
This list also matches up pretty closely with dog bite fatality statistics. Pit bulls and rotweillers are responsible for the majority of dog-bite related deaths in the US over the last decade or two, with the other listed breeds all being involved in a smaller number of deaths. Considering how rare dog bite fatalities are in general, it is really concerning if a breed is associated with even a small number of deaths, especially if the dog breed is not very widespread, like Akitas and Presa Canarios. Pitbulls, Rottweilers, and German Shepherds are much more popular dogs, but even when you correct for population size, these dogs have a higher relative risk, compared with the average dog. Pitbulls are especially high-risk.

Lack of proper training and poor husbandry likely contribute to these numbers. But breed is definitely a factor in predicting behavior, including aggressive tendencies. Dogs that have been bred to fight or to defend and dog breeds that are bigger and physically stronger than other dogs will be naturally more dangerous to people. It is not that surprising, in my opinion, that some dogs pose a higher risk of serious injury due to their genetic heritage and breed characteristics.

As a large dog owner, I think it is really important to always keep in mind that a dog is not just a pet. It is a living creature and a natural predator. Dogs can be trained and their behavior can be molded in many ways, but at the end of the day, dogs are dogs and they will tend to do what comes naturally for them ... or whatever they were bred to do.

Terriers will hunt and kill. Hounds will scent and bay. Herding dogs will nip and herd. Retrievers will retrieve. Guardian dogs will guard. Fighting dogs will fight.

Individual dogs can go against type and stray from the expectations of the breed, but if you want a dog that behaves in a particular way, it makes sense to give consideration to the breed and pick one that fits your needs, rather than trying to fight against the grain.
 

fluffypoptarts

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@Destiny makes some good points, especially re: breed characteristics of dogs and that they are predators. And this is why I will always keep them separated.

We happen to have greyhounds as they are the only breed I’m not allergic to and they fit our lifestyle very well. That said, they are known for high prey drive. I know people are sometimes all for introducing the dog to the birds, but I don’t go that far. They are trained to stay away from the bird rooms but have seen the birds in their cages through the door. They hear them as well, obviously.

I’ve taken them to the pet store before and of course they just had the birds there in the middle of the store. As soon as the dog notices and the ears go up, I would say, “NO, leave it,” and then praise the dog the minute the ears went down and they looked away. I also practice with them whenever we go outside. I’ve told them “leave it” with a young possum in the yard before and they obeyed without me needing to escalate my response or directly intervene. Thankfully they haven’t tried to hurt anything yet, but I’m always on guard. Even though they are perfectly fine with our small dog, we crate him when we leave to make sure nothing happens.
 

fashionfobie

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It is not that crazy when you consider dog bite statistics and homeowner liability.
I suppose I must remind myself that the US doesn't have the same health care. I just don't even think about the medical expenses. A person would receive care no matter what. I am liable for my dog. There are restricted breeds. We have muzzle laws and there is an expected decorum.

I am still shocked by the home insurance going up. I am allowed that. I think some pet insurances here cover bites for damages in lost wages, or property, though I would need to check.

It should go without saying that I 100% agree that all dogs aren't to be trusted around our small birds.
 

fluffypoptarts

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It should go without saying that I 100% agree that all dogs aren't to be trusted around our small birds.
A lot of people do just that, though. There are so many threads about the tragic outcome of this trust and/or complacency. Having the bird out of his/her cage in the same room as the dog, especially - “Oh, Spot would never hurt my bird, it’s fine.” Then more often than not the follow up post in Highway to Heaven.
 

Mitzi

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I have a mini australian shepherd and she is the best dog I have ever owned. Very smart, wicked smart! She is great around the birds, she likes them to drop food to her but leaves them alone.
 

LovieLuvr

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As some have mentioned, training is going to be very important. All of my dogs have been rescue mutts, but we've been able to pinpoint the breed mixes since we rescue them as puppies. My husband and I currently have 2 chiweenies (chihuahua & dachshund) and a golden retriever/mountain cur mix. We've trained our dogs to avoid the birds with a "no bird" command, so they completely ignore the birds when we have them out of cage time. For the safety of everyone, neither dogs or birds are left alone with one another. Good luck with your search!
 

melissasparrots

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I am so scared of potentially harming my babies that after reading this thread I wonder if I am asking for the impossible in a dog. I will research some of the herding dogs more and will keep considering.
Having a dog with birds can totally be done. Hedge your bets in the right direction by choosing a breed that has frequently been successful with parrots. We have several people on here with shelties, regular and miniature australian shepherds and border collies. Gun dog type sporting breeds(retrievers, spaniels, pointers etc.) can be good, but it might depend more on the bloodline and be a little more hit and miss. You might have to be a little more firm about that initial puppy training. Look for soft tempered breeds that want to please their owner more than anything and just happen to have some other skills like herding or retrieving. Rescuing a dog is nice. However, because I have parrots and I want a little more assurance than a typical owner does that my dog's temperament will turn out, I like to get dogs from breeders that have been involved in their blood line for a while. They can tell me about how the parents, grandparents and previous puppies out of the lineage were in terms of prey drive and handling other pets in the house. Beyond that, you just take precautions. I've found across the board that the puppy stage is the hardest. They just don't know yet that birds are a NO. I have my big cockatoo cage in the living room. If a puppy starts sniffing around the cage, I tell him to Be Careful. If my cockatoo gets down to the cage grate and starts trying to bait the puppy through the bars, if the puppy shows interest, he gets a solid NO and maybe a squirt of water.

When I have the bird out on my lap, I watch for puppies trying to grab parrot tails. Puppies are not allowed on my lap when birds are on me. I only have my most dog tolerant or steady birds out initially and only when they are physically on me. I give it a few months or more before I let the birds just hang out on their cage top or gym casually with me and the dog in the same room. Rarely do I leave the room with a bird out and the dog loose. And then only when I know the bird. I would NEVER leave a parrotlet out without me being right there since they are so flighty and tempting. But, I will leave my cockatoo on her boing for a couple minutes since its out of easy reach of dogs and she doesn't get off her boing. When in doubt, I leave the bird out and all the dogs follow me into the bathroom or kitchen. Make sure you teach the dog to Leave It. If I have a bird fly to the ground, I yell leave it and all the dogs scatter away. That mostly works because the dogs know the bird is off limit anyway. If I didn't yell leave it, one of them might walk up and try to sniff, but odds are that would be it. My dogs are pretty immune to birds. I have a Harris's hawk tethered to an open perch in my bedroom on the floor for a few weeks every year when its too cold for him to be in the outside enclosure and the dogs also sleep in my room. Sometimes they try to sniff around the hawk papers for leftover bits of meat, but they leave the bird alone. Honestly, choosing the right breed, follow it up with good training and then don't take crazy chances and you'll probably be fine. Not all breeds are crazy out of control predators. Always assume they can have a slip up though so don't just assume they will be best friends. Also, food can be a problem. Keep the area around the bird cage clean of things the dog might want to eat. Even some good dogs can get aggressive around food, even if its bird food they think should be their own.
 

IRNluv

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I have two Boston Terriers and a Schnauzer. The Bostons are rat and squirrel annihilators but they don't bother birds. We also keep ducks and chickens and it wasn't hard to teach them that if it has feathers you leave it alone. They are very athletic dogs too and love to go for a long run. Just be mindful of the heat. We adopted our schnauzer as elderly and blind so I can't really give an assessment as to her breed's suitability.
 

Roku

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I have 4 pugs, an English bulldog, a French bulldog, and a malamute. The only dogs I would trust with my greenwing macaw, Precious, are my pugs. But I still don't allow them in the same room unless I'm watching. I'm not so much worried about Precious, but the pugs are playful and if Precious takes it the wrong way, I'm worried that she might pluck out an eyeball or two.
 

aooratrix

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I have a Dogo Argentino, which were bred to hunt cougars and wild boars. She knows "leave it" and "no". She is very interested in my birds, more curious than a prey drive response. However, I NEVER trust my dog fully with the birds. They are never alone together uncaged. Knock on wood, I've never had a problem. Before Sophie, I had another rescue, a GSD. She was fine with the birds as well, but, again, well-trained.
 

Miss Annamarie

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I also recommend smaller herding or companion dogs. Ari is a Shih Tzu and wouldn't go after a bird even if it landed on his head. But it really does have so much to do with training, plus he literally grew up around birds, we got Isla and Bee before he was even 1 years old. He likes watching them all but knows better than to go too close to any of them.
 

fashionfobie

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That helps a lot in my opinion, having them grow up around birds.
I agree with this. They are accustomed to the smell of the birds and the noise that they make. The birds become less enticing than if they had never been exposed to them.

My friend's border collie did not grow up around birds. She is a great dog, but has a very strong prey drive and desire to pursue birds. When my friend comes over with her dog all of my birds from chicken to finch are hidden away.
 
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