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Advice Needed for Macaw with Pasteurella

Begone2

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Hi folks. I tried posting this on another thread but got no response. I'll try here.

My Illiger's macaw began sounding very hoarse around a couple of months ago. His voice was distinctly affected, and I saw him sneeze up a bit of a colored discharge. There was no other sign of illness, weakness, or lethargy. He hates his travel cage, and the nearest avian vet is quite a distance away, but off we went. The vet prescribed karidox, a kind of antibiotic, once a day. You will probably have heard of it as a general antibiotic.

My bird isn't caged. He free-flies in a large room. He is also very wary of syringes and any kind of medication that might come out of them. However at dusk, he flies up to the curtain rail to sleep. I devised a routine. I placed a step ladder next to the window. Late each evening, when he was fast asleep, I would sneak in to his room, slip up the ladder, and in his drowsy state, he would accept "a wee scoosh" (a short squirt) of the required dose into his opened beak.

This went on for two months, and his voice didn't seem to improve. I found a much nearer general vet who was prepared to work on my bird under the direction of her colleague in the avian vets, thus saving the long journey, and stress on the bird. She performed a throat swab and sent it away to a laboratory for analysis. The result showed that the bird had an infection of Pasteurella. However, this was apparently sensitive to Karidox. The vet prescribed some more of the same strength, and advised to simply continue for another month, after which, if there was no improvement, we would have to return to the avian vet for further investigation.

The vet also suggested using F10 in a nebuliser. As my bird hates being contained in a small space, where a nebuliser spray would be most effective, I had to think of a way to get the spray close enough to my bird to have any effect. He loves coming into the shower with me. I decided to put a "lid" on the shower compartment, making it a kind of waterproof chamber. I take a chair in there, sit with the bird without turning on the shower, and allow the nebuliser spray to fill up the chamber. I am hoping the exposure to the F10 combined with the Karidox antibiotics will overcome his nasal/throat infection.

There isn't much information out there in the net about Pasteurella. It seems most prevalent after a bird has been bitten or injured by a cat or dog. My bird hasn't been anywhere near a cat or a dog. Does anyone have experience of this bacteria? On the positive side, there was no sign of fungal or secondary infections, but I don't want to be complacent. Thanks.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Hi folks. I tried posting this on another thread but got no response. I'll try here.

My Illiger's macaw began sounding very hoarse around a couple of months ago. His voice was distinctly affected, and I saw him sneeze up a bit of a colored discharge. There was no other sign of illness, weakness, or lethargy. He hates his travel cage, and the nearest avian vet is quite a distance away, but off we went. The vet prescribed karidox, a kind of antibiotic, once a day. You will probably have heard of it as a general antibiotic.

My bird isn't caged. He free-flies in a large room. He is also very wary of syringes and any kind of medication that might come out of them. However at dusk, he flies up to the curtain rail to sleep. I devised a routine. I placed a step ladder next to the window. Late each evening, when he was fast asleep, I would sneak in to his room, slip up the ladder, and in his drowsy state, he would accept "a wee scoosh" (a short squirt) of the required dose into his opened beak.

This went on for two months, and his voice didn't seem to improve. I found a much nearer general vet who was prepared to work on my bird under the direction of her colleague in the avian vets, thus saving the long journey, and stress on the bird. She performed a throat swab and sent it away to a laboratory for analysis. The result showed that the bird had an infection of Pasteurella. However, this was apparently sensitive to Karidox. The vet prescribed some more of the same strength, and advised to simply continue for another month, after which, if there was no improvement, we would have to return to the avian vet for further investigation.

The vet also suggested using F10 in a nebuliser. As my bird hates being contained in a small space, where a nebuliser spray would be most effective, I had to think of a way to get the spray close enough to my bird to have any effect. He loves coming into the shower with me. I decided to put a "lid" on the shower compartment, making it a kind of waterproof chamber. I take a chair in there, sit with the bird without turning on the shower, and allow the nebuliser spray to fill up the chamber. I am hoping the exposure to the F10 combined with the Karidox antibiotics will overcome his nasal/throat infection.

There isn't much information out there in the net about Pasteurella. It seems most prevalent after a bird has been bitten or injured by a cat or dog. My bird hasn't been anywhere near a cat or a dog. Does anyone have experience of this bacteria? On the positive side, there was no sign of fungal or secondary infections, but I don't want to be complacent. Thanks.
Tagging a few people for you-

@Hankmacaw @Macawnutz @macawpower58 @enigma731
 

Mizzely

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The most common reason for not getting a response is from posting on old, unrelated threads. I've started a new thread for you for better visibility and hopefully you'll get more responses!
 

enigma731

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Honestly if there's already been a culture and sensitivity test done and he's on the appropriate meds based on that, I'm not really sure what else to suggest. You could try another antibiotic that the test says the bacteria is sensitive to. Or you may need other diagnostics, like a scope of his throat or xrays of his air sacs. Those are very specialized procedures though, so you'd almost certainly have to go back to the avian vet for them.
 

macawpower58

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Hopefully Hankmacaw or macawnutz will show up.
They are well versed in sick macaws, while I sadly have no experience in that.
Praying for your baby though, you sound like you're trying everything you know to do.
Someone will come along with some sound advice.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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The most common reason for not getting a response is from posting on old, unrelated threads. I've started a new thread for you for better visibility and hopefully you'll get more responses!
Thanks Shawna. I clicked on the old thread because of the title, recognized it was an old thread and read the message from Bob. Tagged a few people to get some attention on it.
 

Mizzely

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Thanks Shawna. I clicked on the old thread because of the title, recognized it was an old thread and read the message from Bob. Tagged a few people to get some attention on it.
I brought your tags along, too! Definitely helpful!!
 

Toy

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There isn't much info, but I did read that Pasteurella can also be passed on via contaminated food & water. It can live on surfaces for days. The cage, dishes, toys, sleeping rod, etc., should all be disinfected.
 

Macawnutz

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Korbel, my BG had pasteurella once. I remember clearly that other than him being very tired and wanting to sleep on me had had no other symptoms of illness. Luckily him acting sleepy for less than 12 hours was enough to prompt me to rush him in. Unfortunately the medication prescribed was doxycycline and little did we know at the time but Korbel is highly sensitive to such and became a flying vomiting volcano. Let's just say that my experience with pasteurella was messy and traumatic but that was mostly the reaction to the doxy.

Pasteurella is common in cats and while we had three at the time of his infection he was never touched by one. Korbel is also an extremely fighted bird and would get into most anything when he was younger so I expect he may have gotten into their food dish or even grosser yet their litter box. After that we moved all the cat stuff to rooms he didn't frequent. You make it sound as if your bird is never caged. That alone is fun as when you are not home they get into whatever they want too. Something like your shoes could carry in some nasty bacteria, unwashed produce is another good source of yucky. Their have been days where I struggled to imagine where some little bacteria made it's way to my birds but the truth is it's all around us all the time. Korbel has a very poor immune system and I think always will.

As far as medications.... no ones bird likes them. You have to be the bad guy to do the right things. Whether you have to chase them down and towel them twice a day or not you have to do it. You also have to retest to make sure the infection is gone. Quite a few of us drive hours to see a qualified vet. You just have to do it. :D
 

Hankmacaw

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Hi Bob - I f your bird has not had a culture and sensitivity done, then you may be using an antibiotic that is not sensitive, or is only sensitive to the particular strain of Pastuerella that your bird has. A Pastuerella infection is very serious and can be deadly, if not treated properly.

"Most Pasteurella isolates are susceptible to oral antimicrobials such as amoxicillin, amoxicillin/clavulanic acid, minocycline, fluoroquinolones (ciprofloxacin, ofloxacin, levofloxacin, moxifloxacin), and trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole. Based on in vitro susceptibility data, several antimicrobials should not be used empirically for P multocida infections, including dicloxacillin, vancomycin, cephalexin, cefaclor, cefadroxil, erythromycin, and clindamycin
eMedicine Logo
"
CULTURE AND SENSITIVITY
mihttps://myhealth.alberta.ca/Health/pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=stc123799&lang=en-caldly

This is the first thing you should make sure that has been performed on your bird.

Second if he isn't getting the full dose of antibiotic, or the dose prescribed isn't enough, you will not be making much, if any progress. You must make sure he gets the full dose. Even if you have to towel him to do it. If the Doxy is the proper antibiotic (which I have some doubts about) there is a doxycycline injection that lasts for 10 days - you might request this injection from your vet.

Sometimes we have to do thing to our birds to save their life and just like a child they might not like these things, but they must be done. You have to be the adult in the room.

If you have cats or dogs or ferrets or rabbits - you will need to make sure they stay far away from your macaw as they are the main source of Pastuerella (cholera) in birds. And you will need to do some serious cleaning.

Good luck.
 

Macawnutz

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Hi Bob - I f your bird has not had a culture and sensitivity done, then you may be using an antibiotic that is not sensitive, or is only sensitive to the particular strain of Pastuerella that your bird has. A Pastuerella infection is very serious and can be deadly, if not treated properly.

"Most Pasteurella isolates are susceptible to oral antimicrobials such as amoxicillin, amoxicillin/clavulanic acid, minocycline, fluoroquinolones (ciprofloxacin, ofloxacin, levofloxacin, moxifloxacin), and trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole. Based on in vitro susceptibility data, several antimicrobials should not be used empirically for P multocida infections, including dicloxacillin, vancomycin, cephalexin, cefaclor, cefadroxil, erythromycin, and clindamycin
eMedicine Logo
"
CULTURE AND SENSITIVITY
mihttps://myhealth.alberta.ca/Health/pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=stc123799&lang=en-caldly

This is the first thing you should make sure that has been performed on your bird.

Second if he isn't getting the full dose of antibiotic, or the dose prescribed isn't enough, you will not be making much, if any progress. You must make sure he gets the full dose. Even if you have to towel him to do it. If the Doxy is the proper antibiotic (which I have some doubts about) there is a doxycycline injection that lasts for 10 days - you might request this injection from your vet.

Sometimes we have to do thing to our birds to save their life and just like a child they might not like these things, but they must be done. You have to be the adult in the room.

If you have cats or dogs or ferrets or rabbits - you will need to make sure they stay far away from your macaw as they are the main source of Pastuerella (cholera) in birds. And you will need to do some serious cleaning.

Good luck.
Oh yes, I should mention that Korbel had the Doxy injection but when the sensitivity came back it was resistant to doxy. He was switched to amoxicillin. The fun of the volcano was the fact that the injection did last 10 days. :wtf: Of course you remember that ML...
 

Hankmacaw

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Oh yeah, and I can laugh because it wasn't me. Hank was like that with SMP-TMZ, but with him the medicine dropped into his crop and came right back up like it hit a trampoline.
 

Begone2

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Thanks for reposting my original text and for tagging the right people. Also, your comments are both helpful and much appreciated.

I am retired and spend most daylight hours of each day with him, so I manage to keep him out of mischief. He sleeps in a room that is totally birdproof. If for any reason I have to go out, he goes back in there. He treats that room rather like a cage - he normally can't wait to come out of it, despite it being of reasonable size. He has a play stand in there, some wall perches and plenty of toys. He has plenty of space to fly around and perform his aerial acrobatics. I have heard it said that the "bongs" (colored textile wrapped round wire that he can climb on - you might have a different name for them in the US) which he has a few, can transmit bacteria, so they get regularly boil-washed. For the rest of the day, he and I sit in our main room. Again I try and clean it as much as possible. Shoes, for example, are left at the front door.

He has a mania for chewing, so there are plenty of wood toys that he destroys. They are all bought from a reputable avian sales outlet. There are no dogs or cats in the house, so l don't really know where he has picked up this infection. The only symptoms he has are a hoarse voice. He has plenty of energy otherwise.

I have slightly increased the daily dose of his meds to compensate for loss when they get injected into his beak. I noticed that he has spluttered and decorated the nearby wall where he sleeps, so he wasn't getting all of it before. The vet told me to continue his treatment for a month, which is almost up now. I will be taking him back to the original avian vet, despite it being two long train journeys away. He hates being confined in a travel cage, but better that than having to write an obituary here. I will write an update once we have been back to the vet. I will also keep an eye out here for any further responses that might appear in this thread. Thanks again.
 

Begone2

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I was able to take my bird Sultan back to the vet just before lockdown froze everything up. He was clear of any infection, but still had the raspy voice. The vet reckoned his vocal cords may have been slightly damaged, but apart from that, he was over it and healthy. Thanks for all your advice. Hope you are all taking care.
 

Begone2

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He is energetic and lively - vocal when he gets exhuberant - although his voice is still hoarse - and seems to have completely recovered.
 
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