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Adverse reaction to ACV?

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srtiels

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I for one an not an advocate of ACV. But the one thing I have learned is it does change the PH in the gut and you would have to follow up any treatments with probiotics to restore the PH levels in the gut.
 

Holiday

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Well, I have been using it (very sparingly, only a drop or two per full bird cup of water), and it is working wonders for my three macaws. All three have more normal poops now. I wouldn't use it routinely, but it sure has worked on the latest episode of runny poops here. Everything looks great.
 

srtiels

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I wouldn't use it routinely, but it sure has worked on the latest episode of runny poops here. Everything looks great.
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Ah...but that is putting a band-aid on the problem, instead of finding the cause of the latest episode of runny poops.
 

avianantics

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I did give them some fresh cut spinach? Would that do it? And no, no cheese in the mix. Don't know quite how it got that name lol.
Long ago, Beak Appetit did have a bit of dried cheese in it, which is how it got its name. It hasn't had any cheese in it for years.

Spinach does have a high water content and can cause runny poo's. I would be surprised if the ACV had anything to do with it, other than some birds when first starting with ACV, like the taste/smell and drink more water than normal.

I would just keep an eye on them, and if things aren't better AFTER the morning mega poo, then consider taking them to see a vet.

FYI: Best to avoid feeding spinach at all. Spinach is loaded with DDT, permethrin, chlorthalonil and other carcinogenic pesticides. Spinach is very difficult to grow organically, thus the chemicals. Spinach also disrupts the ability of a birds system to absorb calcium.

There are much better vegetable sources; Carrots, Yams, Cooked Sweet Potato, Kale, Broccoli, Asparagus, Sugar Snap Peas, Romaine Lettuce, Brussel Sprouts, Cooked Squash, Corn, Snow Peas, Radishes, Zuccini.
 

waterfaller1

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I just read no to asparagus the other day, that it can cause stomach upset.....hmm..wonder where I saw that.
 
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Bokkapooh

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t she is now getting some Beak Appetite Cheese Teaser which she absolutely loves,

I personally do not think its the ACV but this cheese teaser. Cheese is not healthy for birds, they cannot digest it, and they will have diarrhea.
 

srtiels

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Cheese is fine. It it is milk that contains lactose that a bird can not digest, which cheese does not have lactose.
 

Bokkapooh

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Cheese is fine. It it is milk that contains lactose that a bird can not digest, which cheese does not have lactose.

I believe birds cannot digest milk products in general.And its the harder of the cheeses that seems to be better if fed at all to the fids. But dairy itself is a MAMMAL product and not natural for birds, so its only understandable for why a bird would have runs after eating any. I know my birds do. I do NOT feed milk to my birds, I have fed cheese on quite a few occasions, and they always get the runs.
 

srtiels

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I believe birds cannot digest milk products in general
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Then you have to read the labels as to if the dairy product contains lactose or not. Cheese does not, yogurt does not. My tiels will on occassions be given cheese, and there is no problem with digestion or the droppings. My mousebirds are now given some yogurt on top of their fruit and their droppings are fine.
 

avianantics

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I was once in Brian Speer's office for a well bird check. He came into the room and held out his hand to show me a nasty, gelatinous ball of goo... and asked "do you know what this is?" To which I replied, "I have no idea". He then informed me that it was a ball of cheese that he had just removed from the proventriculous of a Cockatoo. It had built up over several years, as, according to Brian Speer, DVM, birds cannot digest Cheese.

I never feed dairy products of any type, and always try to feed a diet as much like their natural diet as possible.
 

Archiesmom

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Wow, good to know :)
My birds don't get cheese either, but I do give them little samples of yogurt. On a side note Shelly, if someone had brought in a gelatinous ball of goo and then informed me that it had sat in a birds proventriculous for several years and was at one time cheese, I probably would have gagged on the spot and (hopefully) dry-heaved :gag:

Good call on the spinach, I haven't fed it to them since, and won't now. They do get a lot of the veggies that you listed on there as well, so I'll just continue to feed those. I didn't even realize that it was hard to grow organic spinach. The packaging it came in said "organic" but who knows how realistic that it :(
I've been putting a drop of ACV in their water change once every other day (so, with those two, about 1 in 6 bowls of water will have the ACV). They like to make soups :laughing2:
 
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srtiels

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Ah...but I had asked my vet prior to giving some cheese, and he told me it was fine in moderation and occassionally. At the time I was asking for additional Vit A sources aside from greens, which at the time there was little interest, and vtiamin suppliments, and cuttlebone/mineral block. In 16 years I have not had an impaction or any digestive problems related to it, AND I do get necropsys on unexplained deaths.
 

srtiels

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Good call on the spinach, I haven't fed it to them since, and won't now. They do get a lot of the veggies that you listed on there as well, so I'll just continue to feed those. I didn't even realize that it was hard to grow organic spinach
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In regards to spinach, it contains oxalic acid, which is what binds calcium in the body from being properly utilized. What most don't know is that ALL greens contain oxalic acid. What a person has to do is reseach oxalic acid levels to calcium levels. You want the calcium levels to be higher. It is these levels above the oxalic levels that are then usable calcium in the body.
 

JLcribber

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The definition of "moderation and occasionally" is a "pea" sized piece or smaller and at the most once per week but more like once per month.
 

srtiels

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The definition of "moderation and occasionally" is a "pea" sized piece or smaller and at the most once per week but more like once per month.
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Yes, that is correct :) At the time I was breeding indoors, and was having problems with hens with soft-shelled eggs, prolapses, etc, and was asking the vet for alternative calcium sources, in addition to what I was doing. Another suggestion at the time was a light sprinkling of dry/powdered milk on any soft foods. I later found out the missing and vital ingredient was access to sunlight or Vita-lights. But even though the tiels are outside when set up will give them a bit of cheese.
 

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Ah...but that is putting a band-aid on the problem, instead of finding the cause of the latest episode of runny poops.
Yes, I know, but the bandaid will have to do until the vet appt. in March. :)
 

Bokkapooh

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Ah...but I had asked my vet prior to giving some cheese, and he told me it was fine in moderation and occassionally. At the time I was asking for additional Vit A sources aside from greens, which at the time there was little interest, and vtiamin suppliments, and cuttlebone/mineral block. In 16 years I have not had an impaction or any digestive problems related to it, AND I do get necropsys on unexplained deaths.

ORANGE vegetables have over 100% of Vit. A.

Sweet potato has 180% Vit. A and carrots I believe are 120%


Leafy greens typically have the B and E Vitamins.
 

Bokkapooh

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The definition of "moderation and occasionally" is a "pea" sized piece or smaller and at the most once per week but more like once per month.
Peas size or smaller, depending on the size of bird.

What most people don't understand is most birds cannot fit no more than a CUP of food in their crops! And feeding even a teaspoon size of cheese is a great portion of their daily diet.
 

srtiels

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What most people don't understand is most birds cannot fit no more than a CUP of food in their crops!
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LOL, you must not have tiels :) The MAX for an adult is approx 5cc after they are weaned because the crop capaicity is greatly reduced.
 

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Yes, I know, but the bandaid will have to do until the vet appt. in March. :)
ACV and GSE are mild antibacterial products. Here at out house when we have time on our side I like to use the holistic approach to treating our birds. I have watched both work doing wet mounts and gram stains. The do not work as fast as an antibiotic but they do lower the bacterial counts. I would not call using ACV masking the problem as you are using it without knowing for sure what type of bacteria or possible infection your bird has. Many avian vets are moving towards holistic medications when the condition of the bird does not warrant a antibiotic. We use ACV here a lot and have never had a problem or reaction to it. Another product we keep on hand is a product called AviPow, (Pau d'arco), it also work on minor upsets and bacterial or fungal problems. I recommend everyone keep a few of the holistic products on hand for minor problems. No holistic medication takes the place of a diagnostic vet visit when you have an emergency.

Natural Anti-fungal / Anti-Bacterial Supplement from the Rainforest.

gary
 
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