Added new IRN - jealousy

[Leslie Cole]

So I got my first bird in Sept 2019, an IRN. Male and about 17 months old at that time. He bonded closely with me from the start. About six weeks ago I got another male IRN who was about 18 weeks old. They are caged separately in the same room for when I am away, getting stuff done around the house and for bedtime. They are out with me most of the day though and I have two playstands so they each have one. Also, the older one is fully flighted but the young one has clipped wings which I will let grow out when he moly’s and they grow back. Mostly they are fine while out, however, my older one will fly to the other play stand and get “bossy” with the young one and end up chasing the younger away - the older will even continue chasing and then “attack” the younger one several times per day. They can both be on me at the same time so long as the younger one stays on my forearm or hand only. I’ve been making sure to give my older one plenty of one on one time so he knows he is still important. Now the young one just looks nervous anytime the older gets anywhere near him and looks to me to come move him away to the opposite play stand if the older flys to the same one he is on. Just looking for advice on how to help them cohabitate better. I’m afraid that I may be making things worse unintentionally just from not knowing how to best handle these situations at the moment.

 

[Leslie Cole]

Additional comment to original post - im not sure if this is him being territorial, jealous or both

 

[fashionfobie]

It can definitely be a bit of jealously. Do they work it out on their own? Or are they hurting each other?

I wonder if the issue has started after these 6 weeks because your new bird is feeling a bit safer and coming out of his shell a bit. IRN seem to take several weeks to process a new home setting. So maybe it is only recently that your older bird is trying to establish boundaries. Or maybe your QT ended?

IRN can be rather pushy of each other in group settings. They are pretty gregarious and as long as they can get away from each other I would probably let them work it out/ get to know each other. Granted there is a clear power dynamic since the new bird can't fly.. humm Don't you just hate it when they cut the poor baby's wings. My little plummie had a last minute wing clip right before I picked him up... even though I was explict that I didn't want that.

I would hate to give the wrong advice, but I think you have already made a lot of correct choices. Keeping separate cages, providing two play stands, ensuring you provide time with the original bird; these are all great ideas. If there is violence I may intervene, possibly keeping some sort of barrier between them at least until the new bird can also fly.

Do you have any other humans around? I wonder how they act together when you aren't part of the dynamic.

 

[Leslie Cole]

It can definitely be a bit of jealously. Do they work it out on their own? Or are they hurting each other?

I wonder if the issue has started after these 6 weeks because your new bird is feeling a bit safer and coming out of his shell a bit. IRN seem to take several weeks to process a new home setting. So maybe it is only recently that your older bird is trying to establish boundaries. Or maybe your QT ended?

IRN can be rather pushy of each other in group settings. They are pretty gregarious and as long as they can get away from each other I would probably let them work it out/ get to know each other. Granted there is a clear power dynamic since the new bird can't fly.. humm Don't you just hate it when they cut the poor baby's wings. My little plummie had a last minute wing clip right before I picked him up... even though I was explict that I didn't want that.

I would hate to give the wrong advice, but I think you have already made a lot of correct choices. Keeping separate cages, providing two play stands, ensuring you provide time with the original bird; these are all great ideas. If there is violence I may intervene, possibly keeping some sort of barrier between them at least until the new bird can also fly.

Do you have any other humans around? I wonder how they act together when you aren't part of the dynamic.

I haven’t really given them the chance to work it out themselves because I don’t really know at what point I should jump in. I don’t want the younger one to get hurt so I intervene right away. Is there any tips on how I can step back and see if they work it out but also know what to look for to make sure things don’t go too far?

 

[fashionfobie]

Here is an example of a very peaceful resolution.

Even this isn't so bad because the birds are respecting each other distance. At the end when they do have a physical conflict it is quickly revolved and the bird get away from each other.

If your birds are not separating and are biting in some frequency, then maybe you should intervene. Maybe they need to get to know one another is more common ground. Maybe set up a different room in the house that the older bird hasn't really been to. The new setting may change their dynamic so they can meet more calmly.

Also since one of your birds can't fly I would play defence. It will be harder for them to resolve their conflicts.

 

[Leih]

I have been working on jealousy with my lovebird and my conure. They can hang out together for shorter periods of time right now, but one often tries to chase the other away. I have been doing clicker training with them simultaneously and also I sometimes will have one on each hand with a treat so they're near each other, getting my attention, and getting a treat. Female lovebirds are infamously aggressive, but she's made a lot of progress. They seem fairly comfortable sharing me now, I truly think trick training helped. I don't know anything about IRNs but I have definitely had to convince my birds that they can share me.

 

[fashionfobie]

I don't know anything about IRNs but I have definitely had to convince my birds that they can share me.

IRN are very social outside of nesting. They can be very protective of the nest which is why they shouldn't be house in tight quarters. Generally in open spaces they assemble in large groups, 40+ individuals or more.

In the second video of sample IRN conflicts it is obvious that they are worried about that cupboard and the idea that it could become a nest cavity.

I like the idea of training to help the birds adjust to sharing. I think that could help. As long as food jealousy isn't their concern. I also thinking doing this training in a new room or common ground will help. So that you older IRN doesn't have his perceived nest cavities on his mind.

 

[Leslie Cole]

Here is an example of a very peaceful resolution.

Even this isn't so bad because the birds are respecting each other distance. At the end when they do have a physical conflict it is quickly revolved and the bird get away from each other.

If your birds are not separating and are biting in some frequency, then maybe you should intervene. Maybe they need to get to know one another is more common ground. Maybe set up a different room in the house that the older bird hasn't really been to. The new setting may change their dynamic so they can meet more calmly.

Also since one of your birds can't fly I would play defence. It will be harder for them to resolve their conflicts.

Those were really helpful to see - thank you. The end of the second video is usually what I see with mine. Older one flys over to younger - younger tries to get away by flying down to the floor - older one chases after him and they rough house - all in the amount of time it takes for me to get over to them and scoop them up - it’s so fast. I’m going to try seeing how they do in a room that neither of them has ever spent time in and see if that makes a difference like you said.