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<A Must Read for Pluckers> Giardia A Health And Plucking Nightmare!

Lynne

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Thank you for your kind words, please keep me informed as to how Spencer progresses and what test results are.
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
Do you notice if Spencer is worse at night as opposed to they day?
How long has this been going on?
If you want to talk or have any questions please feel free to PM me also.
I belong to a few yahoo groups and there are a lot of people with birds dealing with giardia, I did not know how common this really is. I see a lot of people there with greys that have giardia, I think there are more there with greys then any other species.
I wish you both the best and feel for you, I think I've moved beyond the basket case stage to needing a white jacket stage.
Does Spencer have any other symptoms?
 

northstarhawaii

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Hi Lynne, thank you for your kind words as well. I had written about a 100 word post to your reply and accidentally hit the backspace and wiped out the entire draft....so i'll get back to this later, but I just wanted you to know that I did read your reply and appreciate your time in doing so - how is squeaky doing?
 

Lynne

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Thank you for asking, he is getting better and looking better but it's not over yet and it has been a long road.
The faster you diagnosis giardia the better, Squeaky had a lot taken from his little system by the giardia and the medications.
The concern now is candida, most birds develop a secondary bacterial or fungal condition.

Sorry you lost your post...been there..done that..I find if I have a long post if I think about it I write it in one of my word programs.
I'll check back later, it's 8pm here and I am just eating for the first time today, been hectic here.

Hope to hear back from you.

Also just a note..you can get a false negative on the test..or a false positive. I did my testing 3 days in a row, some people skip days and there is also a remission where they might not be shedding but are still having some symptoms.
I am sure there are a few gigs of info on my PC's concerning giardia, one of these days I'll organize it all.
 
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srtiels

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I know this is an older posting, BUT, the info is GREAT!!!

I have to go thru old notes and research I did on giardia, which I have tiels so I have encountered it several times. I have also learned that with the water treatments (I used Ronivet-S and metronidazole) there can be some treatment failure because a bird may not drink enough each day to keep theraputic levels in their body. This can occur if you also feed any greens or veggies or any foods that have water content. These food sources are enough to hydrate the birds, and can be cause for them drinking less of the medicated water.

The ONLY effective treatment has been with injectable Flagyl. It is one shot daily for 2 consecative (sp) days, and repeated in 10-14 days. The problem with any giardia treatment is it can affect the intestinal flora in the GI tract and cause some secondary yeast infections, so a follow-up with an antifungal and probiotics is necessary.
 

northstarhawaii

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[FONT=&quot]Hi,
I am glad Squeaky seems to be on the mend…I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Where do I start... -

Spencer started developing these really itchy bird symptoms back in mid-April of this year. I woke up to about 50-75 white down balls on the bottom of his cage, followed by a week or so later him plucking out all of his mature feathers under both wings, the lower top region of his back (just up from his tail) and the insides of his legs…I immediately called our Avian vet (who was/is excellent, btw) who thought he was having a severe molt but prescribed Benadryl in case it was an allergy. I had him on the Ben for about 2 days (I don’t like giving him western medicine) and then gave up and it did not appear to be working. Just about this time my mother got really sick and I had to leave to go back to MSP for a couple of weeks ; (I have left many times on vacation and he was not bothered before) .. SO then I thought maybe he is reacting to my stress and anxiety (my mother passed during this time as well) – so I ran with that thought for a while, BUT he was continually showing these really ITCHY , picking behavior (Like he would drop his absolute favorite food, suddenly, to pick out his fluff feathers and continue on in these mini cycles.) Because he was very symptomatic at night (I had about 3 weeks of sleepless nights, holding him, so when he when into his cycle, I could give him a shower (that seems to calm him down) – so the vet thought –mites (even though none were found on him) – he’s been treated twice for mites and still the same behavior. While all this is going on, the vet drew blood, a couple of pin feathers and fecal samples for testing, all negative. I thought perhaps he was allergic to soy, or wheat or eggs or…doesn’t seem to matter. I have had his cage apart and disinfected several times a month….He had been treated with a round of anti-biotics because when the vet sent his pin feathers to Miami (or wherever) the tests results showed positive for inflammation in the lower feathers so she prescribed a 10-day antibiotic cycle which didn’t help. I have not let go of the Giardia possibility because of its stealth capabilities, his picking pattern and the fact that he seems just very uncomfortable at times (like he'll bring his wing(s) together hard and make a flap type noise as if he is bothered) and the fact that the vet did not take fecal samples from the AM which to my understanding is the very best time to take - the first poop of their day! I have ordered the Giardia test kit from BIRDSAFE (thanks to your suggestion) and when I receive it will follow the instructions and go from there. Meanwhile I am giving him oregano which is supposed to be loaded with antimicrobial compounds that fight bacteria and Giardia (according to www.avianweb.com/giardia )- I brew the oregano flakes in water like tea and then mix a little of that brew with rice dream or soy milk to mask it’s flavor and the Greys love it. We’ll see…So really it boils down to 2 thoughts, is it behavioral or Giardia – I guess it could be behavioral or hormonal – I am at the stage where I just want to rule out everything and then if it’s behavioral and I have a bald BUT HEALTHY bird, then so be it and I LOVE him no matter what!! As for me, other than my mom passing, my life is pretty status quo (up and downs of life per say, but nothing earth shaking, knock on wood, of course).

What is Squeaky prescribed for the Giardia?

Thanks again for listening and your wonderful insight…
Debbie/Spencer[/FONT]
 
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Lynne

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Susanne,
Thanks so much for replying, I alway's read your posts since they always contain such detailed information, down to the graphics.
My vet is at the big conference and I am looking to find out if there is anything new on the horizion. I'd like to hear more, please.
Squeaky has been down the Ronivet-S and metronidazole road, the Ronivet even though the water was red he drank it...shocked me!

My concern is the candida now, since Squeaky's immune system has been bombarded.


Debbie, first let me say I am so sorry to hear of your mothers passing.

Your story sounds so much like mine, the reason I asked the time of day is because Squeaky is worst right before sunset and of course when he was in his cage at night (I think the giardia are more active at night) most parasites are.

I really feel for you and Spenser! I am getting flashbacks from just reading what you have posted. Been there done what you are doing.
Have a question for you....I noticed your screen name are you in Hawaii?
Called the lab and Christina wont be in until 7pm EST my time I was not sure you could send them the samples??? I'll let you know just in case.

One mistake I made is I used to give Squeaky ACV in his water 2 times a week and had backed off on it. I was thinking you may want to buy some organic ACV and start adding a few drops to Spencers water daily, Squeaky is getting it daily now, with a little aloe in there also which heused to get 2 times a week.

Susanne brings up an interesting point about the injectabe Flagyl, when we run the test on Squeaky again if there is no new treatments I will speak to the vet about the injections as well as some of the natural treatments out there (those maybe more for keeping the giardia in check since no one agrees if it can be cured or not.

Susanne any information you would be able to share would help. I still think any bird plucking/mutilating should be checked.

I have seen a post here recently about a bird plucking, loosing weight, vomiting all signs of giardia. When I mention this to people they blow it off.

On another board a woman took her mutilating, loosing weight lovebird to a vet, they told her the bird has dermatitis, my problem with this is that diagnosis is that it's a catch all diagnosis, something is causing it, be it a food allergy, something the bird is in contact with, internal parasites, the list goes on.

There is mention of oil of oregano mixed with food, but there is a specific brand to use that can help, I spoke with Gudrun over at tops and she mentioned Neem tea, looking into that also.

Right now Squeaky is getting medication for the candida, I also have Squeaky on the dried organic oregano mixed in with a gloop I feed him in the mornings, getting him used to soft foods, this is the biggest step he has taken in eating moist foods.
I give him Harrisons Booster daily, these birds loose so much of their nutitional value of good foods, that the booster gives them 6 forms of Vit E (non-synthetic) and carotenoids (natural Vit A.) it also has a rich source of cornzyme Q10 (CoQ10).
In speaking with Harrison's also they have a concentrated form of Booster but by vet prescript. only.
Oh and all foods that have any sugars (nutriberries, avicakes) are gone from his diet, the giardia and yeast LOVE sugar, that includes fruits for now.
Trying to remember if I left anything out...Oh he gets melatonin, they had him on diazepam but we has been weaned off that since I was concerned over liver damage, he's had enough meds.

I feel the same way, if Squeaky was just a plucked i'd love him no matter what, you can't help but not!
If I missed anything just askand I'll check back, it has been a very long 2 days and I am ready to shut the phone off for the night, eat dinner and watch nothing on TV.

Oh and call Christina at 7.

Once again I hope things get better for you, you have been through so much.
:hug8:
 
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northstarhawaii

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Thanks so much Lynne for all the great info and for the condolences as well :) AND again, I am thinking really good thoughts for you and Squeaky....

Yes, I do live in Hawaii, on the Big Island (Kona Side); been here for almost 14 years....

I love the Harrison's booster idea as well...i'll be ordering their products for both my Greys. I am taking Spencer to another vet tomorrow (Saturday) to have one more set of eyeballs on him while I am waiting for the Giardia test kit to arrive. I'll keep you posted. They are going to test for 'G' at their facility as well (hopefully - they did ask me to bring a fecal sample in)...

I since joined a couple of Yahoo groups thanks to your insight as well - it's opened up a world of possibilities and connections with other people going through similar experiences...

I'd love to hear your progress with Squeaky and thanks so much again for taking your precious time to respond to my long posts...

Much Aloha Lynne / Squeaky,
Debbie
 

magni

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:omg: this is what I am going through with Teagan. I have put out so much money also:eek:
 

northstarhawaii

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I totally understand! I'll keep you posted and I wish you the very best with Teagan!!! : )
 

Lynne

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magni,
If you read my post I mentioned you...I thought about it but if I mention it to people they think I am nuts.
(Posted above in my last post) I have seen a post here recently about a bird plucking, loosing weight, vomiting all classic signs of giardia (a number of other causes can cause a bird to have these symptoms also but giardia should be ruled out).
It may not be but in my case it was staring 5 vets in the face with my bird and they all missed it. Please keep us posted on Teagan.

Debbie
I hope you find out something soon. The Yahoo Groups can be good and bad.
Read you can, there is a lot to learn, you have to research on your on also. This is what I did, this is why I'm still researching.
Thank you so much for your good thoughts... we need all we can get.
I just sat him out a fresh dinner plate and he threw it on the floor and went into his cage and ate that food (grains, seeds and freeze dryed veggies).
I'd like to hear about any progress anyone makes. It is at least worth checking into if nothing else pans out.

***Forgot to add Debbie***
If you take a morning sample in for the vet see if you can use wax paper to collect it on, that way you can fold it gently and unlike newspaper it wont dry out or be absorbed.
 
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northstarhawaii

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Hey Lynn, (I tried to leave you a PM, but I have to have over 20 posts) : )

I thought I would quickly tell you of my latest 'avian' vet experience yesterday.

…so while I am waiting for my test kit from BIRDSAFE, I made another appt with a local vet here in Hawaii to have another set of eyeballs on him, they claimed they were certified to work with birds. (You're not going to believe this OR maybe you will)! - Anyway Spencer and I wait 45 minutes to see this vet, finally we're escorted to the exam room where we wait for another 10 minutes. I had told my whole story (god only knows you only want to do that ONCE) to whom I thought was the doctor, come to find out, it was the tech who immediately leaves the room and I guess is telling the doctor everything I told her...the doctor comes into the exam room and right away (without even introducing herself) accuses me of not feeding my parrot correctly AND he’s just neurotic - she does not listen to word I was trying to say to her (I just wanted the •••• Giardia test)!!! She thinks that it might be mites (now I’ve told her that Spencer has been treated for mites TWICE), but she insisted on taking a scotch tape impression, so they (the doctor and 2 techs) go after (and I mean go after) Spencer with a large unfolded towel, Spencer flapping his wings, screaming, they persist and throw the towel over the top of him, wrestle with him and flip him over and he is screaming bloody murder AND I am flipping out. They are holding me back and trying to cradle him by his neck and his feet!!!!!!!!!!!! (in mid air-with no support for his back) – Spencer is squirming and screaming and at this point I jump in and say give my •••• bird back – WE ARE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I settled Spencer down and we leave the exam room and are leaving to walk out and the doctor comes out saying I owe her a half an hour of billable time – I said absolutely not, you compromised my bird physically, psychologically AND put him in great danger…I went on to ask her how long she has been certified as an avian vet – she told me she WASN’T!! I told her that her receptionist is giving out misleading and false information … she defended her receptionist and demanded payment – I said absolutely not and I walked out…believe me that was the short version, too. There were so many other barbed nuances about that experience that do not translate in this post.

….so back to waiting for the BIRDSAFE test kit – Spencer and I are ok … J

On a good note, your posts have been very informative and possibly he is getting too much sugar from the tropical fruits I have been giving him…so I have been cutting that back. Thank you for the wax paper idea as well... : )

Also, you mention Christine, who is that? Is she a representative of a company that I should send my test results too?

I hope you and Squeaky are having a beautiful day and thanks again for everything Lynn. : )
 

Lynne

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Hey Lynn, (I tried to leave you a PM, but I have to have over 20 posts) : )

I thought I would quickly tell you of my latest 'avian' vet experience yesterday.

…so while I am waiting for my test kit from BIRDSAFE, I made another appt with a local vet here in Hawaii to have another set of eyeballs on him, they claimed they were certified to work with birds. (You're not going to believe this OR maybe you will)! - Anyway Spencer and I wait 45 minutes to see this vet, finally we're escorted to the exam room where we wait for another 10 minutes. I had told my whole story (god only knows you only want to do that ONCE) to whom I thought was the doctor, come to find out, it was the tech who immediately leaves the room and I guess is telling the doctor everything I told her...the doctor comes into the exam room and right away (without even introducing herself) accuses me of not feeding my parrot correctly AND he’s just neurotic - she does not listen to word I was trying to say to her (I just wanted the •••• Giardia test)!!! She thinks that it might be mites (now I’ve told her that Spencer has been treated for mites TWICE), but she insisted on taking a scotch tape impression, so they (the doctor and 2 techs) go after (and I mean go after) Spencer with a large unfolded towel, Spencer flapping his wings, screaming, they persist and throw the towel over the top of him, wrestle with him and flip him over and he is screaming bloody murder AND I am flipping out. They are holding me back and trying to cradle him by his neck and his feet!!!!!!!!!!!! (in mid air-with no support for his back) – Spencer is squirming and screaming and at this point I jump in and say give my •••• bird back – WE ARE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I settled Spencer down and we leave the exam room and are leaving to walk out and the doctor comes out saying I owe her a half an hour of billable time – I said absolutely not, you compromised my bird physically, psychologically AND put him in great danger…I went on to ask her how long she has been certified as an avian vet – she told me she WASN’T!! I told her that her receptionist is giving out misleading and false information … she defended her receptionist and demanded payment – I said absolutely not and I walked out…believe me that was the short version, too. There were so many other barbed nuances about that experience that do not translate in this post.

….so back to waiting for the BIRDSAFE test kit – Spencer and I are ok … J

On a good note, your posts have been very informative and possibly he is getting too much sugar from the tropical fruits I have been giving him…so I have been cutting that back. Thank you for the wax paper idea as well... : )

Also, you mention Christine, who is that? Is she a representative of a company that I should send my test results too?

I hope you and Squeaky are having a beautiful day and thanks again for everything Lynn. : )
I saw that...about the 20 posts...get that count up there :lol:

Uh...I can understand having to fill vet/people in on what has been going on ..the whole story...can it really be done?

I can not belive they treated Spenser so poorly :(
Stress makes these birds worse. Any stress is bad on birds but these birds it is extremely tough on, it makes everything worse and they have setbacks. Why do they feel the need to ignore what we tell them? Most of the time they handle Squeaky without anything (he hates white cloths and tissues) the vet was going to after him once with one and I explained he hates them.
To accuse you of not feeding him right ...my word... did they ask?

Ohhhhhh not even certified?? And made it seem as they were? How shallow.
I would have not paid either. I dislike saying this but I'm glad I am not the only one that sound crazy as to what these vets will do! I 'm sorry that you both were put through so much :( :( :(

Hope you get the test soon at least it will put your mind at ease, giardia has to be ruled in or out. I try to explain to people the longer the bird has giardia and is not being treated it will and can have devaststing long term damage

I'm still having a very tough time with Squeaky, had to put him back on the meds he is looking better but I am not sure he is going to recover honestly.
Just today I pulled 2 tail feathers one had 2 growing in one the other had 4 and there were 2 on his nck that had 2 feathers also.

My vet and a few people have said adding another bird would help but I can't put anothe bird at risk.
I spend a few hours EVERY DAY cleaning, disinfecting, medicating, cooking foods, and just making sure he does not mutilate.
It has been a year, this stsrted last August.
I am so tired, it is a daily battle doing everything, if I had to work I don't know what I would do.

Does Spencer have any feathers growing back at all?
How long has it been since you ordered the test. Have you decided if your going to do 3 days in a row? Skip a day inbetween?

Like I said the fruit grows the yeast plus the giardia love it too.
Christine is the lady at the lab who runs the tests at the lab.

Sorry for the delayed reply, I have had almost 2 weeks of if it can go wrong it will...I am just burned out.

Hope to hear from you soon and like I said get them posts up, did you get my message?

Once again sorry you 2 had to go through so much!!
Hopefully you and Spencer are over that ordeal.

Thanks for the well wishes and give that Spenser a scritch for me.
:hug8:
 
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northstarhawaii

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Aloha Lynne,
Thanks so much for taking the time to listen and respond. OMG I hope Squeaky gets better -!!!!! My heart SO goes out to you!!

I just finished up with the 3rd day of the Giardia scooping and Express Mailed to CA this morning. I actually thought Spencer was getting better a few days ago and then I made the mistake of saying that out loud 'gee I think Spencer is getting better' only to have him revert back to full fluff picking in an episode-like manner...(especially in his cage - he starts grabbing at his tail with his feet and extreme preening and fluff picking and some feather picking). I just finished hauling both birds' cages outside and disinfecting COMPLETELY in case of mites or giardia spores..............the only thing that seems to calm him down is a warm shower. SO frustrating...

Why is Squeaky's feathers coming in 2 or 3 in one sheathe? Is it from the Giardia or medication?

I am not sure I received your message - my personal email is dr@bluemarbleworld.com .

Keep me posted Lynne and again thanks so much for your compassion...I'll keep thinking really good thoughts for Squeaky.

PS: sorry it took me so long to respond...I thought the system (forum) would send me an email notification if someone responds to my post...I check checked the posts for good measure today and discovered you had replied back :)

Have a nice day today Lynne.. and Squeaky, too - .Debbie
 

Willow

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I have no idea if this info will be helpful to anyone since it relates to my experience with dogs. However, I had all of my dogs and a couple who were staying with me temporarily come down with severe cases of giardia a couple of years ago . . . they did not respond to the normal treatment of metronidazole, (what we ended up doing for them was metronidazole for 10 days as well as panacur every day for 7 days) but the other key thing was I had to follow each of them around with baby wipes and wipe them after they pooped (NOT fun with 7 dogs!!!) because what can happen is they can easily reinfect themselves after they go to the bathroom if any of the cysts stick to their fur and they clean themselves.

So, I am throwing this out there in case it could be similar with birds - if they are shedding cysts and re-ingesting them while preening, it could really make it difficult.

I'm so sorry that you are fighting this battle it was horrible enough with the dogs and they did not have any self harming behaviors from it!

Best wishes and hang in there!
 

northstarhawaii

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Thanks so much Willow - that is VERY helpful and I will definitely try it out....
Thank you for taking the time to share that info, too!!

Have a great day :)
Debbie
 

Lynne

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Debbie
Thanks so much I spent 3 days working on a friends PC she got a virus what a mess, I bever sealt with that aspect of PC repair, she is my dearest friend, she is deaf and lives on a very limited income so if I xan help her in anyway I try my best.
I don't think Squeaky is going to recover it has been a year and he looks a lot better but he would tear into himself if he could. If he gets really itchy he goes somewhere where I can't see him picking, he hides it to a cerian extent.

I am anxious to hear the results, in one way hoping you have an answer to what is going on is a catch 22... to have giardia is something you do not want to hear and if it is not...then what is it.
OMG...Squeaky does the same thing...I'll say he is doing good only to have a major set back. Did I mention these birds tend to pick/itch more at night? Since giardia is a parasite they can be more active right before sundown. Now I am not saying that will always be the case, with giardia you bever know.
Showers used to make Squeaky itch more, at first he is OK but about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way into being dry he gets itchier ...I feel this is due to the candida and I think it is on gis skin. He just finished 21 days on medication for that so I am collecting this mornings first poop and taking it to the vet to be rechecked.
I'm sorry to hear Spencer had a setback, it is so hard to go through that each time.

The feathers coming in 2-3 -4 at one time in different sheaths is called Pollyfolliculits, this developed about 6 months into his illness, there are several reasons birds develop Pollyfolliculits and giardia is one of them, so now he has to deal with this making him itchy it can be very painful for them, so now we have the giardia, the Pollyfolliculits and we had the cabdida, he is one tough little guy but I am not sure how much more I am willing to put him through.
Several people including my vet think he would benefit from a friend but until the giardia is gone (if it can be completely killed off, there id debates over that) I really can't put another bird at risk.

Got your email TYVM saving it and will get back to you after we get back from the vets!

Bless your heart and good thoughts for you and Spencer too!!

Think there was a problem with the email notifications. And when the birds have a flare up I am sure if your like me it is exhausting and a huge set back for then and us both.
I hope you both have a great week and you will know yes or no pretty soon I hope.
:hug8:


Willow

My goodness, this stuff is everywhere.. I can't imagine how trying that was to have the dogs come down with it WOW
Hmmmm I know that metronidazole is not highly effective in birds estimates are between 49-60% effective (from what I have read) panacur what is that? I sould know what that is.
I just can't remember so this is where Google comes in handy. My word having 7 dogs to treat that had to have kept you very busy and the baby wipes..great idea but like you said NOT fun, the things we do for our animals!

Your baby wipe idea is great! With Squeaky and me I have paper towel poop stations set up near my recliner and office chair and keep a bottle of water with a few drops of GSE in the water incase he poops somewhere ..glass coffee table places like that where I can wipe it up right away.
What I have done with Squeaky was to trim the feathers around his vent area, I just did this about 2 weeks ago so thanks for throwing that out there!! I need to make the area a little larger, something that popped into my head but wish I would have thought about it sooner.
How all the dogs recovered!!
Birds systems are so delicate and the stress makes this all the worse.
I was glad that you shared what you went through, an sorry that you had to go through all of that, we can learn from each other.
:hug8:
 

northstarhawaii

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Thank you so much Lynne! How did the vet checkup go with Squeaky?

I am still awaiting the test results from South Shore and you are right it definitely is a catch 22. I just started both Greys on the BOOSTER and HIGH POTENCY pellets from Harrisons Bird Foods Premium Certified Organic Pet Bird Foods. Harrison's Bird Foods - let the results speak for themselves.. This might have been something you recommended to me earlier or someone else; but they seem to have really good products (organic, etc) - (these birds eat WAY better than I do)!!! : ) Do you have Squeaky on any of these at all?

I'll keep you posted and do let me know about Squeaky's latest lab results - Debbie
 

Lynne

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Well...........I took a fecal in and dropped it off Tuesday morning, I did not get a call, so I called yesterday and ttheu tell me the doctor will call me with the results.....I wait ...this morning I call ...I am now getting irrate...
the sample was to dry for them to check :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Do none of these vets care if a bird is sick?
So I had a doc's appoint. yesterday mt friend came and watched Squeaky...yea a baby sitter for the bird.

So tomorrow I will collect the am poop and rush us to the vets plus give them anything in the bottom of the travel cage, I'll line it with wax paper.

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

Was Spencer checked to make sure there was no bacterial or fungal growth on the skin? I forget.

I am going to send you an email so don't let me end up in the junk mail LOL

I have had Squeaky on the Booster for sometime now and he has been on Harrison's pellets also but last year when he started showing symptoms Harrison's changed the size of the super fine pellet, well my bird is picky about what he eats so now matter if I crushed them, fed them whole, nothing, notta he was not going to eat them (very bad timing to have your bird go off his main food).
I switched to TOP's pellets and I forget when it was but Harrison's went back to the super fine so he gets both now.

I tried the soother spray but he does not like to be misted so that went for the dog :lol:

I have the soother ointment but I put a dab in tempid water (not to warm or it will rinse their natural oils from their skin and feathers and he gets a sponge bath... yep, he sure does. I can look for the feather that are coming in that are doubles, triples and quads now. The giardia hit him hard since it was not caught :(

Harrison's makes a concentrate of Booster but that is by prescript. only from your vet. I have a ton of information I will send you.

Even if it is not giardia something is going on. I even did a food elimination diet before I found the giardia.
The site you posted is Harrison's main site but they have a sister site, I'll send that along in an email so keep your eyes open.

Scritches to Spencer!
Wishing you both the best.
 

denariomom

Meeting neighbors
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Jessica
Man you went throught a lot of trouble God Bless you and glad hes doing better. Makes me think my rehomeing ekkie and the 50 thousand roaches that come with his cage wasnt so bad after all. (Note) Im complaining about roaches not ekkie hes wonderful
 
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