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A little help please, need some feedback

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MBS

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After reading through some of the lessons I realize I made some mistakes. I didn't look up the classes on here until just now.

I don't think I click at the right time. I click just after the behavior or as the behavior is ending. I'll try to speed up my click. I kept the training session going just a little too long, and I don't have just the right way to give treats.

I didn't click and treat my pf lovebird, Quidditch, when he just looked at the stick. He usually comes right up to the stick and touches it with his beak. I click and treat him for that. Sometimes he doesn't touch the stick, and I don't know if I should click and treat when he looks or steps toward the stick now because I have been clicking and treating only when he has touched the stick.

Today I had Quidditch sitting on my finger, and I got him to turn around while following some millet. I didn't click since I was just playing with him, but I had him do it a few times.

I really hope to train all of our birds starting with Quidditch, Sunshine (my son's male parrotlet), and my daughter's male parrotlet (hopefully weaned in 2-3 weeks). I will move on to our two budgies, Hedwig and Doctor, when I know I can train the handraised and very young birds. Hedwig is a millet addict so he will let me do a lot to him when I have millet, and Doctor is just tame enough to get on my hand when I have millet. Doctor is the difficult one. Poor thing.

I need to step back and find a better way to give treats to Quidditch. He won't take seeds from my fingers. He isn't afraid of hands or fingers when they're empty, but he backs off when I have even a small oat groat in my fingers. He will eat from a small bud of millet, but he often bites a bunch off and takes a while to eat. I am trying to get him to eat from a small measuring spoon with seeds, but he's not keen on me coming at him with a spoon. I'll see if putting a treat on the floor in front of him will work.
 

waterfaller1

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I just wanted to thank you for your post, it brought my attention to this part of the forum.:hug8:
 

MBS

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You're welcome. Hopefully others see this too.
 

rocabird

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dawn
I don't think I click at the right time. I click just after the behavior or as the behavior is ending. I'll try to speed up my click. I kept the training session going just a little too long, and I don't have just the right way to give treats.

The great thing about clicker training is you can always go back to work on something if you feel you need to fix something. Timing takes some practice. Think of it as trying to take a picture of the behavior you are working for. There are some great ways to work on timing- having someone bounce a tennis ball and clicking when it hits the ground, pick a pretty common word and click when someone on TV says it or my favorite- online reflex testers like this one-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf



I didn't click and treat my pf lovebird, Quidditch, when he just looked at the stick. He usually comes right up to the stick and touches it with his beak. I click and treat him for that. Sometimes he doesn't touch the stick, and I don't know if I should click and treat when he looks or steps toward the stick now because I have been clicking and treating only when he has touched the stick.
There are several ways to get behaviors with a clicker-
Shaping is where you start with small steps and work toward the end behavior. So for the target stick we start with looking at the target stick, then moving toward the stick then touching it. There may be a lot more steps in training it than those 3 depending on the bird. Shaping is great for getting behaviors your bird does not do normally.

Capturing is when your bird does the behavior and you are reinforcing it. This is what Quidditch did when he touched the target stick right away. For capturing to be successful it needs to be a behavior that your bird does pretty frequently so you can reinforce it. My example is traing one of my dogs to kick their back feet like you sometimes see them do. Problem is I see my dogs do that maybe twice a year. I wouldn't be able to reinforce it enough for them to connect the reinforcement with the behavior. I finally succeeded when I got my Jack Russell Malarky. She would get a little frustrated with me during our training sessions and scuff her back feet. She did it quite often (apparently I am not able to keep up with a Jack Russell) that I was able to capture it and put it on cue.

Luring this is where you use an object, usually food, to direct the animal to do a behavior. One problem with this is that using food as a lure can be distracting. I tend to think that they are thinking "getthefood getthefood getthefood" when you use food as a lure, where as if you used the target stick they are thinking "okay, I want to get her to click the clicker so I get treat, so to do that I need to follow the stick by turning right". They seem a little more conscious about what they are doing.

Any of these will work. I use capturing and shaping most because I find it hard to fade a target when I don't want to use it anymore. If I use luring it is only a few times at the beginning.



I need to step back and find a better way to give treats to Quidditch. He won't take seeds from my fingers. He isn't afraid of hands or fingers when they're empty, but he backs off when I have even a small oat groat in my fingers. He will eat from a small bud of millet, but he often bites a bunch off and takes a while to eat. I am trying to get him to eat from a small measuring spoon with seeds, but he's not keen on me coming at him with a spoon. I'll see if putting a treat on the floor in front of him will work.
I'd try putting the treat on the floor or a small bowl near him to get it out of. One thing I found with Eco was that he preferred taking treats from my palm rather than my fingers so I do that. You may also want to leave a spoon with some seed in his play area for him to find and eat from. That way he will get familiar with it and not be afraid when it's used for training.

It sounds like you are having a lot of fun training. keep up the good work!:dance4:
 

KimKimWilliamson

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It can be difficult without having someone who knows what they are doing right there infront of you, but there are many skilled trainers here who will offer up advice as above! Good Luck!
 

ronsig

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I took part in a clickertraining seminar and found out how important "timing" is. The teacher dropped her keys on the floor and we had to click when they hit the floor. Sounds easier than it was.:o:
But we also got to practice with birds, and it was fun.


My budgies will take the treats now in many ways. They are older rescues and they were terrified at first. Now, I can "glue" some seeds on a baby spoon and they are allowed to bite off one piece at a time. I glue the seeds to the spoon by just dipping it in water. To get the birds used to the spoon, leave it with treats on it in the cage for a while.

Spray millet still works great. I learned to offer it from the top, so they cannot hold on to the millet and rip off a larger piece.It is amazing how smart these little bird brains are. ;)

Once my birds were biting into the target stick, I clicked and rewarded only for that. It is before they did that that I rewarded for looking into the direction of it. I remember how long that took with Snoopy. Looking into the direction, moving into the direction...one tiny step at a time.

Good luck!

Sigrid
 

MBS

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Thank you for the answers everybody. I am going to work on my timing a lot. I'm glad I now know the difference between shaping. luring, and capturing. I will experiment with ways to give treats to Quidditch. I really like the idea of "gluing" treats to a spoon with water. Having tiny bits of treats fly out of a measuring spoon when I had to reward wasn't good for training.

Quidditch is very picky with foods so I still need to find what he even likes besides millet. Millet is not really a treat when that's most of what he eats right now. I'm trying really hard to improve his diet. It shouldn't be so hard with a little baby that just weaned, but he's picky.
 

Ranyart

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The great thing about clicker training is you can always go back to work on something if you feel you need to fix something. Timing takes some practice. Think of it as trying to take a picture of the behavior you are working for. There are some great ways to work on timing- having someone bounce a tennis ball and clicking when it hits the ground, pick a pretty common word and click when someone on TV says it or my favorite- online reflex testers like this one-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf





There are several ways to get behaviors with a clicker-
Shaping is where you start with small steps and work toward the end behavior. So for the target stick we start with looking at the target stick, then moving toward the stick then touching it. There may be a lot more steps in training it than those 3 depending on the bird. Shaping is great for getting behaviors your bird does not do normally.

Capturing is when your bird does the behavior and you are reinforcing it. This is what Quidditch did when he touched the target stick right away. For capturing to be successful it needs to be a behavior that your bird does pretty frequently so you can reinforce it. My example is traing one of my dogs to kick their back feet like you sometimes see them do. Problem is I see my dogs do that maybe twice a year. I wouldn't be able to reinforce it enough for them to connect the reinforcement with the behavior. I finally succeeded when I got my Jack Russell Malarky. She would get a little frustrated with me during our training sessions and scuff her back feet. She did it quite often (apparently I am not able to keep up with a Jack Russell) that I was able to capture it and put it on cue.

Luring this is where you use an object, usually food, to direct the animal to do a behavior. One problem with this is that using food as a lure can be distracting. I tend to think that they are thinking "getthefood getthefood getthefood" when you use food as a lure, where as if you used the target stick they are thinking "okay, I want to get her to click the clicker so I get treat, so to do that I need to follow the stick by turning right". They seem a little more conscious about what they are doing.

Any of these will work. I use capturing and shaping most because I find it hard to fade a target when I don't want to use it anymore. If I use luring it is only a few times at the beginning.





I'd try putting the treat on the floor or a small bowl near him to get it out of. One thing I found with Eco was that he preferred taking treats from my palm rather than my fingers so I do that. You may also want to leave a spoon with some seed in his play area for him to find and eat from. That way he will get familiar with it and not be afraid when it's used for training.

It sounds like you are having a lot of fun training. keep up the good work!:dance4:
Dawn - That was a fantastic synopsis of clicker 101. I've never enjoyed clicker training but your explanation got me all excited again. Thanks so much!

Maybe this could be a sticky?
 

ronsig

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Quidditch is very picky with foods so I still need to find what he even likes besides millet. Millet is not really a treat when that's most of what he eats right now. I'm trying really hard to improve his diet. It shouldn't be so hard with a little baby that just weaned, but he's picky.
Have you tried offering several treat options on a plate and see what he picks most often? My budgies also have millet in their regular food, but spray millet is something different for them. And even the seeds that in the food are a treat when offered separately. Like the canary seed. Hulled millet for people from the health food store work too. But it takes a while before they recognize it as food. Now they swallow it like candy. No shells to clog up the computer keyboard...:D

I am a clickertraining fan because it is the only method that worked on my rescued budgies.
The clickertraining book I use is now available on kindle...
Amazon.com: The bird school. Clicker training for parrots and other birds eBook: Ann M. Castro: Kindle Store

Good luck!!!!
Sigrid
 

MBS

Jogging around the block
Joined
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Messages
785
Have you tried offering several treat options on a plate and see what he picks most often? My budgies also have millet in their regular food, but spray millet is something different for them. And even the seeds that in the food are a treat when offered separately. Like the canary seed. Hulled millet for people from the health food store work too. But it takes a while before they recognize it as food. Now they swallow it like candy. No shells to clog up the computer keyboard...:D

I am a clickertraining fan because it is the only method that worked on my rescued budgies.
The clickertraining book I use is now available on kindle...
Amazon.com: The bird school. Clicker training for parrots and other birds eBook: Ann M. Castro: Kindle Store

Good luck!!!!
Sigrid

I'll have to try putting things on a plate to see what he would like. He is so wary of food. It's like he thinks they're poison. I'm just glad he ate birdie bread with a lot of things in it. He puts his veggies and beans in his water. I don't know if he likes them.

It's hard to get a good training area for him that is away far from other pets. Right now he is attacking my dogs and the other birds. He won't stay on a playstand or on the top of his cage if he sees any other pet. It's tough because we have an open floor plan (no doors and very large doorways) downstairs and our dogs follow us to each room. They don't pay any attention to Quidditch, but he goes out of his way to try and bite them. I am scared for my other birds to get their beaks or toes torn off because they will jump to the part of the cage where Quidditch has jumped on to protect their territory. He's aggressive, but luckily not to me. He has sort of bitten me, but the bites don't hurt since he's kind of squeezing my fingers more than biting them. He was the worst when he got out of quarantine and found out he was not the only pet.

I don't want to keep him upstairs away from the dogs and the other birds, but I guess he will have to stay away from them for a while if not forever.
 
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